Gunman kills 13 in village rampage

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posted on Apr, 10 2013 @ 02:46 PM
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reply to post by intrepid
 


I can agree to a point about the mass murder part and the weapon of choice. However, there have been a few cases in the last year around the world of mass attack with nothing more than a knife, the last one being something akin to an Ex-acto knife. While that knife wielded in the manner it was will not do damage if it had been used in a slicing manner things could have been worse.

A knife can be very deadly when most people around are not going to try and stop the wielder of the knife. At a distance a crossbow or even a compound bow can be very deadly to a great number of people. A machete being wielded will certainly take a number of lives as will a sword with an edge.

Regardless this is why I say we need to focus and get governments to focus on the real issue of mental health. They will listen if the push for it is great enough, they have no other choice.

Raist




posted on Apr, 10 2013 @ 02:51 PM
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Originally posted by Raist
A knife can be very deadly when most people around are not going to try and stop the wielder of the knife.


Why would they not?
I sure as hell would. Not leaving my future in anyone elses hands.


At a distance a crossbow or even a compound bow can be very deadly to a great number of people.


Yes but it takes MUCH greater skill to use those weapons.


A machete being wielded will certainly take a number of lives as will a sword with an edge.


Are you allowed to carry them in public in the States? Even if, I could handle that with short pipe. They tuck nicely in your back.



Regardless this is why I say we need to focus and get governments to focus on the real issue of mental health. They will listen if the push for it is great enough, they have no other choice.

Raist


One can hope but I seriously doubt it.



posted on Apr, 10 2013 @ 02:59 PM
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Originally posted by intrepid

Why would they not?
I sure as hell would. Not leaving my future in anyone elses hands.


They often do not. We saw yesterday in Texas that they do not. At least not immediately.


Are you allowed to carry them in public in the States? Even if, I could handle that with short pipe. They tuck nicely in your back.


Irrelevant. Say I go nuts and want to drag down a sword from the wall and hack a bunch of kids at the playground. Uh-oh, I cant carry a blade longer than 3" in public. Guess I'm SOL and cant murder a bunch of people today.



posted on Apr, 10 2013 @ 03:00 PM
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Most of these mass shooting/knifing things are very opportunistic on the part of the perpetrator.
Shooting kids in a school, people in a movie theater, knocking on every door in the neighborhood and shooting the person with a pistol when they answer it. X-acto knife-man was going from building to building on campus stabbing girls in their faces. It isn't as if any of them were actually participating in combat.

None of these are accomplished killers. I doubt many would have stood long if action had been taken by an experienced person against them.



posted on Apr, 10 2013 @ 03:03 PM
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reply to post by intrepid
 




Yes but it takes MUCH greater skill to use those weapons.

It really takes more skill to be accomplished with a knife than most people think.
Most don't even know how to grip a knife properly.



posted on Apr, 10 2013 @ 03:04 PM
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reply to post by intrepid
 


In general it seems no one tries to stop the nut cases. It always seems left to the police or the person to off themselves.


Sure plenty of weapons take skill. Even shooting takes skill to a degree. Just pointing and hoping you hit something can be rather dangerous (speaking in the case of self defense as again I do not see anyone trying to stop the criminals). It is harder to hit a moving target (the people running for their lives) than most realize. You can just point and shoot but you are more likely to miss. Taking aim even a quick aim requires at least a small degree of skill, yet anyone can wiled a club (baseball bat, metal rod, ect) with little or no skill and they can be deadly as well.

I might get someone calling the cops and they might stop and ask me about it but I can carry one yes. Heck I might have just bought one from the pawn shop down the block and I am walking home with my prize. I cannot think of a logical reason why I would not be allowed to carry a sword or machete around. I am sure to get weird looks though


You might be able to end a violent rampage and you might be willing to step in a stop one. It seems now though no one is willing to do that. Also being in the heat of the moment changes how one will react even if you have trained for it. You might not have the time to think about your actions or you might. If we could read minds no one would be getting hurt, sadly though we are left wondering about others until they act. If they are right beside us when they act we might not come out of it alive.

Raist



posted on Apr, 10 2013 @ 03:07 PM
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Originally posted by thisguyrighthere
Uh-oh, I cant carry a blade longer than 3" in public. Guess I'm SOL and cant murder a bunch of people today.


Uh-huh. And that sword isn't visible? How fast do you run? Do you actually know how to use a blade? How about energy? You DO know it takes a lot more energy to wield a blade than pull a trigger, right? Wanna try again?



posted on Apr, 10 2013 @ 03:07 PM
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Originally posted by butcherguy
It really takes more skill to be accomplished with a knife than most people think.
Most don't even know how to grip a knife properly.


True. I was referring to firearms, not knives.



posted on Apr, 10 2013 @ 03:08 PM
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Originally posted by VaterOrlaag
Leave it to ATS to turn every thread about a shooting or stabbing into a debate over the "evil" gun control.

Pretty damn pathetic when there are dead people to think about.

How much longer is this going to continue before people stop to ponder the lives lost?

How many more bodies are going to pile up?



And yet, with your last phrase, we see how anti gunners use every massacre to push their agenda. Where is the outrage on this vulture-like activity?



posted on Apr, 10 2013 @ 03:20 PM
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Originally posted by NavyDoc

Originally posted by VaterOrlaag
Leave it to ATS to turn every thread about a shooting or stabbing into a debate over the "evil" gun control.

Pretty damn pathetic when there are dead people to think about.

How much longer is this going to continue before people stop to ponder the lives lost?

How many more bodies are going to pile up?



And yet, with your last phrase, we see how anti gunners use every massacre to push their agenda. Where is the outrage on this vulture-like activity?

Yeah, they don't bother posting about how we should ban alcohol.
They way I see it, people will be piling up when we stop burying or cremating them. They will keep dying, for all sorts of reasons.
Me, I would rather die free. Better that than have a 'Vater Orlaag' telling me how to live my life just because they have a certain fuzzy wuzzy feeling that they need to satisfy at my expense.



posted on Apr, 10 2013 @ 03:34 PM
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Originally posted by butcherguy
Most of these mass shooting/knifing things are very opportunistic on the part of the perpetrator.
Shooting kids in a school, people in a movie theater, knocking on every door in the neighborhood and shooting the person with a pistol when they answer it. X-acto knife-man was going from building to building on campus stabbing girls in their faces. It isn't as if any of them were actually participating in combat.

None of these are accomplished killers. I doubt many would have stood long if action had been taken by an experienced person against them.


Like trained military?


One sailor and two airman were wounded at the late night shooting at a movie theater in Aurora, the U.S. Defense Dept. found. One sailor is still unaccounted for.

www.cbsnews.com...

Unfortunately, I wish that, for the sake of the wound military and all the citizens that that had been the case. I think that what has made some of these things fairly effective has been the element of surprise. We just don't expect something like to happen in everyday type of places here. I have a friend who was at Macy's in the shopping center shooting before Christmas and he didn't even think that what was happening right before him was real because it was so outside of what we consider "normal" life.



posted on Apr, 10 2013 @ 03:43 PM
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Originally posted by WhiteAlice

Unfortunately, I wish that, for the sake of the wound military and all the citizens that that had been the case. I think that what has made some of these things fairly effective has been the element of surprise. We just don't expect something like to happen in everyday type of places here. I have a friend who was at Macy's in the shopping center shooting before Christmas and he didn't even think that what was happening right before him was real because it was so outside of what we consider "normal" life.



I agree and that is why I say that no matter how much we think we will do something or even train for it we might not react the way we thought when the time comes. I go about daily life often, even driving can be deadly. Just the other day locally a box truck crossed into on coming traffic on a rural roadway (speed limit 55 MPH) and hit an SUV head on. It happened out of the blue one girl 17 died in the wreck, the others are injured. No one expects it but things happen and take people by surprise all the time.

We could be in a store getting something off a shelf and suddenly gun shots take us out or one is placed to the back of out heads. For that matter our throat could be slit. I am surprised there has not been an incident of someone walking around a store just slicing people from behind like that. It would be easy for someone to just walk around and cut throats open before many people caught on.

Life is full of the unexpected.

Raist



posted on Apr, 10 2013 @ 03:50 PM
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reply to post by WhiteAlice
 




Like trained military?

I believe I said accomplished killers.

That is different than 'trained military'.

I was trained in the military. I learned how to maintain and operate a boiler in a ship, not how to kill people.
A lot of people are trained by the military to repair and operate things. As in drive or fix a truck.



posted on Apr, 10 2013 @ 04:14 PM
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Originally posted by intrepid

Originally posted by thisguyrighthere
Uh-oh, I cant carry a blade longer than 3" in public. Guess I'm SOL and cant murder a bunch of people today.


Uh-huh. And that sword isn't visible? How fast do you run? Do you actually know how to use a blade? How about energy? You DO know it takes a lot more energy to wield a blade than pull a trigger, right? Wanna try again?


If you want to ask somebody about machetes you better talk to a ms13 gang member.That is there favorite weapon. They kill plenty of people each year with them



posted on Apr, 10 2013 @ 04:34 PM
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reply to post by intrepid
 


Do not underestimate trigger pull weight.

The trigger pull weight can require a lot of energy, even more so to accurately aim and pull the trigger.

As an example I will tell you about the recent CCW training my wife and I had. The class requires you to shoot at and qualify a number of rounds with both a semi-automatic and revolver handgun. We do not own a revolver so the instructor let us use his. He has a .38 special that had a pretty hefty trigger weight to it. Not to mention the weight of the firearm and having to aim it. I am fit enough that I really did not notice it too much and used the revolver as a double action handgun (meaning I pull the trigger and the hammer cocks back and then releases the hammer). My wife had to use the revolver as a single action (meaning she cocked the hammer manually and then used the trigger to release it) and she still had sore and tired hands at the end of it. With said gun the trigger weight was almost double when used as double action verses that of single action.

A lot of people on here seem to think shooting guns is a breeze and that hitting targets is nothing. Real guns are not like in the games they require different skills. Aiming, firing, and hitting a target with a firearm takes quite a bit of skill. Of course you can spray and pray but there is a chance you will not accomplish much.

I wish more people could try rapid fire targeting and see just how difficult it is. Not to mention that target shooting is far more relaxed than any real life situation is going to be. The SH shooter was practicing his quick reloading. He was planning for it, it took muscle memory to do what he did. He could not have accomplished what he did without a lot of practice which builds skill. I am not giving him props just stating facts that shooting guns and hitting targets requires skill.

Raist



posted on Apr, 10 2013 @ 04:34 PM
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reply to post by butcherguy
 


Thanks for the clarification. So you didn't go through any sort of weapons training in basic? I'd think that you would have been required to but maybe my information is dated. I just know that my grandpa had to go through it and then, had to go through SAC Survival Training under Gen. LeMay, which included weapons, hand-to-hand, escape/evasion, and general survival. He earned a SAEMR at some point after he received a ROKPUC in 1954 so he would've earned it while either being a director of training or comptroller (lol my grandfather the small arms expert accountant--sounds so funny). The fact that he did become a comptroller (really is an accountant/auditor) for a while, like your experience, does show that you can really learn a diversity of things in the military but really surprised about the lack of continued weapons training for all military currently. That wasn't the case when my grandpa served and it's really pretty disheartening to hear.

Well, don't mean to derail but thank you again.



posted on Apr, 10 2013 @ 04:37 PM
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reply to post by Raist
 


Or absolutely nothing could happen to us at all and that's what makes these kind of events so shocking because it really doesn't happen every day. The events are rare but, given the size of the planet, it could make the world seem that way. Then again, I'm never relaxed even while walking through a grocery store. I think it's all those photos of Paula Deen on the covers of food mags more than fear of a random shooting.



posted on Apr, 10 2013 @ 04:43 PM
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Originally posted by Raist
reply to post by intrepid
 


Do not underestimate trigger pull weight.

The trigger pull weight can require a lot of energy, even more so to accurately aim and pull the trigger.


Really? I've been firing for 40 years and didn't spend as much energy as cutting a tough steak. Just because someone says something doesn't make it true. Which is about anyone in this argument that doesn't think, or have ANY experience.



posted on Apr, 10 2013 @ 04:57 PM
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reply to post by intrepid
 


Again you might not notice. I didn't even bat an eye at the pull weight but my wife did.

I also point back to the live action scenario, not sure about you but I have never been in a live action scenario aside from hunting as a kid, but I would assume that targeting people would be a bit different than targeting potential food.

So while you might not have a problem with it when it comes down to a live action event things might be very different. However, you might be able to pull off the bravado you speak freely on the forums. If so great, but many cannot hit moving live targets without plenty of practice before hand.

Raist



posted on Apr, 10 2013 @ 05:37 PM
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reply to post by intrepid
 


Funny how this post got missed.
And no stars. Pro-gun posts did. Stars? They actually don't matter but I find it interesting that those with little material content gets them IF they are saying what they want to hear....... not the truth. All good imo. I'm not trying to convince the moronic masses. I put this out there for the reader(visitor). Let them know we still have people here that have cogent thought and not manipulated by the ridiculous US/media paradigm.





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