The Internet Piracy Conspiracy - Piracy don't hurt sales says European Commission and others

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posted on Apr, 12 2013 @ 05:56 AM
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reply to post by MrInquisitive
 


I don't know where you live but here in UK you can do that. Most shops will take back and refund for goods bought if you change your mind. You dont need any reason. Shops like Asda will not only refund for food items that your not satisfied with they will give you something else free to make up for your disappointment. As for restaurants you can complain about a poor meal or service and often get a refund or a reduction.




posted on Apr, 12 2013 @ 06:04 AM
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reply to post by bigyin
 


Same in Australia. A few weeks ago I took back a roast after I had cooked it and eaten a small portion. The inside was full of fat. They apologized and gave me a refund and a new roast.

I don't put up with bad quality.

P



posted on Apr, 12 2013 @ 06:16 AM
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Originally posted by pheonix358
reply to post by bigyin
 


Same in Australia. A few weeks ago I took back a roast after I had cooked it and eaten a small portion. The inside was full of fat. They apologized and gave me a refund and a new roast.

I don't put up with bad quality.

P


Yep. We did the same. Wife bought a roast, spent all day cooking it. Couldn't eat it was so tough.

I threw the whole lot in the bucket. Next day phoned shop to complain, they said bring the wrapper back so I fished it back out of the bucket and went back with just the empty wrapper. Money back and free roast.

There might be some folk who abuse that system but I dont think it happens a lot. Overall the shop is very popular and does better because it cares about its customers. Unlike Sony or any of those barstewards who just want your money even if they sell you rubbish.



posted on Apr, 12 2013 @ 07:33 AM
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Originally posted by bigyin
reply to post by MrInquisitive
 


I don't know where you live but here in UK you can do that. Most shops will take back and refund for goods bought if you change your mind. You dont need any reason. Shops like Asda will not only refund for food items that your not satisfied with they will give you something else free to make up for your disappointment. As for restaurants you can complain about a poor meal or service and often get a refund or a reduction.


I live in the US, and yes, with some grocery products, you can return them IF they are substandard and get your money back. You couldn't, however, buy a box of cereal, eat it, decide it wasn't all that good, and then insist on your money back -- which seems to be what you are suggesting with entertainment product. And no way could you eat a meal, say it was substandard and not have to pay for it. If you kvetch a lot, you might get it discounted, or get some coupons, but certainly no full refunds.



posted on Apr, 12 2013 @ 08:20 AM
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Originally posted by MrInquisitive

Originally posted by bigyin
reply to post by MrInquisitive
 


I don't know where you live but here in UK you can do that. Most shops will take back and refund for goods bought if you change your mind. You dont need any reason. Shops like Asda will not only refund for food items that your not satisfied with they will give you something else free to make up for your disappointment. As for restaurants you can complain about a poor meal or service and often get a refund or a reduction.


I live in the US, and yes, with some grocery products, you can return them IF they are substandard and get your money back. You couldn't, however, buy a box of cereal, eat it, decide it wasn't all that good, and then insist on your money back -- which seems to be what you are suggesting with entertainment product. And no way could you eat a meal, say it was substandard and not have to pay for it. If you kvetch a lot, you might get it discounted, or get some coupons, but certainly no full refunds.


On all our cereal boxes it says,"If you are not completely satisfied with our product simply return the unused portion to .... with proof of purchase for a full refund."

Now our stores do not have to refund a purchase unless it is is defective, but most do so and as a rule it is not abused by society. Really, who wants to take the time and effort to return a $3.33 box of cereal or whatever but, we have the option!

I accept the point you are trying to make and I understand it well. But I suggest that you consider how you would appreciate the music industry a little better if they did allow it. It is all about customer service and the Music Industry does not have a clue what that means! They lose patronage as a result.

It is almost as if they are in a constant state of warfare with both the artists and the consumers. That is not a good business model to emulate.

P
edit on 12/4/2013 by pheonix358 because: (no reason given)
edit on 12/4/2013 by pheonix358 because: (no reason given)



posted on Apr, 12 2013 @ 09:39 PM
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In my opinion, the music industry is foolishly targeting the wrong audience. I'd say at least 75% of what I hear on the radio is something that I would NEVER buy. And people say that's because I am older (mid-30's) and they are targeting teens and kids.

Really? Teens and kids? The ones who either still get an allowance or spend their monthly paychecks on rent & ramen? You expect to get rich off of these people? My son listens to community mixes on Youtube and owns precisely ONE cd.

Target ME! I'M the one with the disposable income!! I buy 10 times more cds now then I ever did as a teenager!

There's a band called Ozric Tentacles. You would never hear them on the radio in a million years. They have like 20+ albums out. I pirated the hell out of at least half those albums. After falling in love with their style, I've purchased almost their entire discography. But whatever. Continue blaming piracy for lack of sales and trying shoving Justin Bieber & Nicki Minaj down my throat if you hate money that much.



posted on Apr, 14 2013 @ 06:18 AM
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reply to post by pheonix358
 


@Pheonix,

Glad you can acknowledge to some extent my point about the analogy to food products. Besides the grocery products, I also mean restaurant food and experiences. I've had bad food and bad experiences at some places, but good luck trying to get refunded at most of them. Suffice it to say I never go back to anywhere I have an egregiously bad experience.

But back to entertainment products and consumer expectations:

Philosophically I believe -- and one could say conditioned to feel -- that if you pay for some sort of content and there is nothing technically wrong with it, i.e. missing pages or bad printing in a book, skipping CD, messed-up video or big-time screening problems in a movie theater, then one has no basis for a refund for said product or experience. Caveat emptor. That's what movie/music/book reviews are for. And now we can avail ourselves of all kinds of previewing to know whether or not you will likely appreciate some entertainment product. In this respect I have no claims against the entertainment industry. Expecting retailers of such merchandise to go the extra mile for consumers is just being a bit presumptuous.

But I agree with you that the industry does seem to wage war against the artists and the consumers. On the consumer side, the prices -- particularly for purely electronic media -- is way too high, and even for CD's/DVD's it's generally way too much, which causes people to avail themselves of piracy on the high seas of the internet.

I spoke to this in my longer post earlier in this thread. I also think the entertainment biz puts way too many resources into the most mainstream of products, thereby giving the cold shoulder to consumers with more discerning tastes as well as artists who are not just pimping pop pablum.

And as radio and tv stations and networks, they really overdo the pandering to the lowest common denominator for the most part. I haven't listened to commercial radio stations in years -- no, make that decades. The stuff is total dreck, and often the same songs, movies and shows are repeated multiple times in a day or week. Present more material; it will open people up to new artists and expand what consumers wish to purchase. And for the love of the gods, they should stop catering primarily to teeny boppers.



posted on Apr, 14 2013 @ 07:13 AM
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reply to post by MrInquisitive
 


I think we all have personal views on this subject and our personal morals come in to play that may have little in common with the law.

Radio is banal where I am. So much banter that deadens the brain, little music and the music they do play is mostly crap. TV is just about the same.

If I am listening or watching something that has been done by the smaller side of the industry such as self promoting bands or independent movies and I like it, I will gladly and happily pay satisfied that my money is going to the artist!

As for the big five:
WTF, Darth Vader has never been paid? Why?
Some of us liked the old shows because the new TV shows were awful so the industry increased the copyright period to cover them. Just like that! WTH! Talk about pollies in your pocket.

If they want me to act properly, then they have to act properly. Why should I pay a thief!

They treat me badly, they treat artists like dirt and they expect me to have good morals values. Yea right!

P



posted on Apr, 14 2013 @ 07:32 AM
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Originally posted by JohnPhoenix
You always hear people say Internet Piracy hurts sales. Don't you wish someone would do a large study to find out if this is true or not? Now someone has and the results say Piracy does Not hurt sales.


I think this depends on the industry.

And let me start by saying that I'm not interested in any ridiculous discussion about morality or religion, so if that's what you feel like doing to reply to this then don't bother, I won't respond to you. This is about piracy, not whether you think adult media is evil or not.

I know for a fact that piracy is having a devastating effect on the adult entertainment business around the world. This is the industry I currently work in, and I know that people at all levels of the industry are hurting due to piracy.

This is because the model of the business is completely different to Hollywood. These are mostly not gigantic corporations backed by billions of $'s. They don't have investors backing production for a cut of the profits. Many of the studios and sites in the adult business are small, and they operate on a completely different method using their own profits to invest in production.

How is piracy killing off the business? For one thing, the studios are paying performers less, they are cutting production staff and cutting investment in the quality of production (I don't expect anyone to put their hand up and admit it, but some here will know that the quality and style of a lot of studios is visibly lower than it was just five years ago, with the same themes, the same performers, the same sets and locations...). Because of the lower pay in the business now many are leaving, or moving elsewhere. Male performers are leaving one side of the business to earn more in gay adult business (they are paid more) but women don't have this option and many are retiring.

Affiliates are also hurting and have been for a decade. Many are leaving the business as sales figures fall, and I have seen evidence myself that those sites which sell well are spending a lot of their profit on fighting piracy to get their own stolen content away from the tubes and file sharers. Basically, affiliates are deciding to promote the sites that do not have content freely available across the tubes and file sharing sites.

The thing that gets me the most about all of this is that the audience is too ignorant to know what this means for the business. As more and more content is stolen and distributed by thieves (yes, that is EXACTLY what it is) the quality of the content is collapsing, and the business is becoming smaller and smaller.

Every time someone downloads a video or watches something made by an adult studio without paying for it, they are contributing to the decline of the business. Soon, all those people will have nothing else to entertain them than amateurs on tube sites and old clips. They'll then be complaining that the industry is all but gone, and they'll have no one to blame but themselves.

I will agree on one thing though, the businesses need to change. Fighting piracy is a two-way street and some concessions should be made. If movies were released in the US and around the world at the same time, this would take a massive chunk out of piracy. If TV shows were available to stream around the world, this would also help. There is nothing to stop these Hollywood studios and TV networks from cashing in on a global audience and selling their content around the world simultaneously. The fact that none of them are doing that right now is fundamentally what is harming their business.



posted on Apr, 15 2013 @ 06:42 AM
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reply to post by Rocker2013
 


You realize there are free porn sites on the internet too, and that these likely are cutting into the porn industry's sales? Now whether or not these free site are pirating commercial porn is beyond my purview. And this free porn is about as graphic as one could want, so I don't know what the porn industry can do to bring back sales besides lobbying governments to make free porn illegal and adding Viagra to the water supply. My suggestion to the porn industry is to diversify by investing in the hand lotion and tissue markets. Think outside the box, porn kingpins.

Given the availability of gratis porn on the internet, I am not sure the piracy argument applies as directly to the porn industry as it does to other media content producers. But by certainly agree with your larger point that there needs to be some new understanding between producers and consumers of electronic media, as otherwise the business model will fail.





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