'Ding Dong! The Witch Is Dead' could reach number one following Margaret Thatcher's death

Originally posted by HelenConway

Were you even alive when she was PM - I was. What you are saying has no truth.
I would however like to point out we have 8 million unemployed today - thanks to 12 years of Labour,

I wasn't alive when hitler killed 6 million jews but i still hold an opinion on his politics! There is absolute truth in what im saying, and 8 million? REALLY!? The policies she brought into this country are there to be examined and criticised by people of all ages, of all creeds and of all walks of life. Just because she is dead does not excuse all of the pain she brought to many millions. People should be held accountable to their actions and upon death, if people are not willing to forgive you, then maybe, JUST MAYBE, you did a few things that were bang out of order.

Also did you know what it was like in 1979 when Mrs Thatcher's govt took over - the dole queues were massive, 3 day week, electrcity cuts, the country had to go the IMF to borrow money [ first time ever], the dead were not being buried, rubbish not collecetd, black outs all the time.

That was under Labour.

No one has ever claimed there weren't decisions to be made - But the way she went about "resurrecting" this country was purely evil. She showed no compassion what so ever for them, no care or regard to what she was inflicting upon millions of people and most importantly of all - No formal apology. Talk about having "class"

Why are you denying that ? I can only conclude you do not know because you are just repeating propagande or you were not alive at that time, so again you are repeating learned phrases of hate ?

Not really "learned hate" ive done my research, ive heard the arguments of either side and ive made my decision and judged her 11 and a half years in politics - This is my personal conclusion. As a PM she was terrible. Forever a scar on the once great nation of the United Kingdom

Originally posted by HelenConway
reply to post by SearchLightsInc

 

My views are not views they are the truth.
Point out what is incorrect please.

Well for starters "Only a minority of people hate this woman"

You type that with a straight face?

Originally posted by HelenConway
Was Bobby Sands an IRA terrorist ?
second

So what if he was? He was never convicted of any bombings, he was sentenced for the possession of a hand gun that was used to shoot at the RUC. It wasn't even his gun, it was found in a car he was a passenger in.

He was a political prisoner, and had every right to protest having that category removed.

reply to post by ANOK


So let me get this right.

You admit he was a terrorist and that he committed suicide by starvation, yet you blame Mrs Thatcher ???

Please ............

reply to post by HelenConway


Do you honestly think that she is hated just because she was a woman?!?

She was a vile human who we can only hope is sent to the right place. She ordered the sinking of the Belgrano in which is a war crime because the ship being well outside the 200 mile exclusion zone that the British had declared around the Falklands, because the ship was on a westerly heading at the time it was attacked, heading away from the conflict. There was still a peace deal being brokered at the time.

323 poor souls lost their lives that day because of that woman, how do you make excuses for that?

Originally posted by JDmOKI
reply to post by nerbot

 

I don't understand why is she so hated? I know nothing about her.

I could research but Im a college student and ive done enough of that for today

edit on 9-4-2013 by JDmOKI because: (no reason given)

You have to understand what the UK was like back in the late 1970's. The unions dominated *everything* . If workers were required to learn new skills like a new machine, processing stage or technique, shop-stewards would consult their rule book and negotiate the seniority level, pay-rate and hours of the person that would operate that machine (Look for the youtube clips of "The Rag Trade", "Only when I Laugh" and the "Carry On" series of films.

If the workers didn't like something that management introduced, they could call out a strike through a simple hands up vote. If it wasn't approved by the union leaders, it was a "wildcat" strike. "flying pickets" could be sent to block access to other workplaces to make sure those people didn't work. Anyone who did try and break a "picket line" was called a "scab" and would likely have bricks and molotov cocktails thrown through their windows at night. They would risk being assaulted and ostracised in the street and pub. "The Miners Strike", "The Teachers Strike", "The Wapping Dispute" are all further examples. All workers were *required* to belong to a union in a "closed shop" agreement.

But these strikes happened everywhere all the time; rail workers, airport maintenance staff, air traffic controllers, hospital staff, teachers, technicians, technical operators, cameramen. Everyone was jostling to get a better pay deal that their peers or to keep working to old technology. The frequency of strikes was so often that it was impossible for any company to make a profit. Their directors couldn't travel to negotiations, goods couldn't get to factories, workers couldn't get to work, even the dead couldn't be buried.
en.wikipedia.org...

The closest we have had in recent years were the fuel protests in the UK:
en.wikipedia.org...
Just imagine those happening every day in perpetuity for year after year. That was what it was like.

The worst time was when the coal worker went on strike. They literally turned the lights out on the country. Electricity generation was reduced by so much that cities had to have rotating blackouts. You would not have any electricity to cook with, heat food with, have a hot shower, watch TV or even light up a room. This would happen every 16 hours.

Ultimately, it ended with a fed-up population voting for Margaret Thatcher. She made unions require to majority vote paper ballots to go on strike. She eliminated union membership closed shop agreements. Unions were made to agree to no-strike agreements. That further eroded their power.

Margaret Thatcher's first act was to eliminate the coal mining and steelmaking unions from existence. Her arch-enemies were Arthur Scargill, and Mick McGahey who had brought the country down. She didn't stop there. She started privatizing all the state owned industries like British Telecom, British Steel, British Rail, which had been used in the past simply to create jobs. At the time the line manager/engineer ratio was 1:3 with about 8 levels of management. All that over-staffing was eliminated, causing even more redundancies and unemployment. Research centres were also closed down and the scientists fired. Many of my teachers actually had PhD's and had to find whatever work they could find simply because the research institutes had fired staff. She did everything she could to end unions disrupting daily life. Other utilities like gas, water and electricity were also privatized. But these led to all sorts of accidents like Camelford poisoning, Hatfield train crash, and all the other train accidents.

At the peak of the resulting recession, officially over 3 million people were unemployed, out of a population of 55 million. Everyone knew someone who had lost their job and was unemployed. Eventually more jobs were created mostly in the South East of England when the banks had the "Big Bang". Then the South East was *the place to be*. There was a housing shortage that led to every possible building structure being converted into homes (see the Nescafe adverts). Then house prices shot up. Rather too late the government tried raising interest rates to slow down inflation, but it was too late. The property market crashed. And the country was in an another recession.

Then New Labour got in and tried reviving the property market using low interest rates and immigration.

I hope the same happens when the treacherous Tony Blair drops dead, or his mess of a wife.

reply to post by stormcell


Spot on!

The Unions held the country and its members that they enslaved to ransom! They wrecked the country and it's why I've always been against them, the top tier was always made up and still is, of Communists, hell bent on wrecking the country.

The mining industry was dead! It was losing a billion a year in the 70's! This is what people don't seem to understand, it was awful for those who lost their jobs, but it can't be all all blamed on Thatcher and none blamed on the Unions or Labour for that matter. Thatcher tried to contract it out, but companies just weren't interested due to the level of loss.

The steel industry I had more sympathy for the steel works, Sheffield steel was the best in the world but then you had increase in technology, coupled with get it done cheaper abroad and it wrecked everything. However, the mining, I've never understood how people can't see that Thatcher had no choice when it come to the miners.

What has always shocked me is how people rant about Thatcher and Conservatives, when the most destructive polices and eras have been under Labour and yet as the Unions have always run Labour, nobody protested and nobody went on strike. Coupled with Labour's recent reign of terror where they bribed a sizeable minority with benefits, tax to oblivion the average workers and in the bankground decreased tax on the rich, handed more powers to the BOE and more laws to the EU, while flooding the country with immigrants, decreasing wages and purchasing power to change Britain forever.

It just shows people's subjective mentality and how they are easily swayed, with no thought for what actually serves to keep the country going, or even above water. So when it leads the country to where it is now or indeed where it was in 79, people look in disbelief totally oblivious to what exactly was going on in this country running up to that point.

For me, I gave up on Cons and with UKIP, but to totally place all the blame on Thatcher for what happened in the 80's is unbelieveable to me.

reply to post by SecretFace


If people are going to credit her with the good stuff as an individual, she can take blame for the bad stuff as an individual, too.

some people defending her saying i dont see what she did wrong,try doing a little research.that number two chart position clearly puts them in a minority if they think people are over reacting.iether too young too remember or from a financialy well off background,ask the working class people what she did?

Freedom of speech ?
only when you dont say Any thing bad about people !

freedom of speech is the right to say bad things about people.
if some one had said jimmy salve was a kiddy fiddler before the police,
they would have been put in court.

but now!!!
no one would say any thing.
but has jimmy been convicted in Court?

Perhaps the Mail can explain the leftist hatred of Maggie

And by ending the wretched policy of one-sided detente that had allowed the Soviets to march into Europe, Korea and Afghanistan, she set in train the events that would free hundreds of millions of people from what, in crude mathematical terms, must be reckoned the most murderous ideology humanity has known.
Why, then, do Lefties loathe her so much?


You always get the same answer: ‘She closed down the old industries.’


She didn’t, of course: she simply stopped obliging everyone else to subsidise them.


But let’s leave that objection to one side. Ask yourselves this, my Leftie friends: in what other developed country are the heavy industries still going as they were in the Seventies?


The world was changing and every nation had to adapt. All over Europe and North America, steel mills, coal mines and dockyards were closing, unable to compete with the developing world.


Read more: www.dailymail.co.uk...
Follow us: @MailOnline on Twitter | DailyMail on Facebook

She is one of the greatest leaders the western world has had since the days of Teddy Roosevelt. I liked her better than Reagan, she was tougher. If only we had leaders like that today, instead of brain damaged, drug addled communists, sycophants and perverts leading our countries.

If I see another liberal destroying a great country like the UK or America, or another stupid economy stomping tax, I'm going to sick up. It gives me no comfort knowing that liberals are a self limiting parasitical disease, since unlike them, I do not enjoy the suffering of my enemies. Yes there will come a day when a liberal will not be found in the land, but I prefer the land to not be a nuclear ruin when that happens.

reply to post by IvanAstikov


Abasolutely agree, but what I'm seeing is people totally against her, she did no good and hope she burns in hell. She did things that were bad for people, I'm not denying that, but some of the things she is being blamed for actually she had no choice doing and that's what I'm trying to get across.

reply to post by bigred37


Yeah....you can get to number one in this country with 200k sales, chart position of a song doesn't really carry great weight in the debate.

reply to post by buddha


True, but why say bad things about someone when they are mostly shrouded in hear say and opinion and actually lack credible evidence? Surely that is just being spiteful.

As I said, I know why people would be against her, but many aren't looking at the bigger picture. When she come the power the country was on its knees thanks to industries around the country costing the country billions, Communist Union leaders holding all to ransom and Labour's inability to run a bath, let alone a country. Thatcher made unpopular decisions, but the decisions were, for the most part, needed to get the country back on track again and by the 90's we was in a brilliant position.

As I said, I find it amazing how quick people are to jump on Thatcher and Conservatives, but ignore the most destructive eras of our time and that has always been when we have had a Labour government.

reply to post by SecretFace


Maybe it's you not getting the big picture mate?

An article in The Economist (15-21 September 2012) argued that the gap between the north and south in life expectancy, political inclinations and economics trends was growing to the extent that they were almost separate countries.[1] They argued that one of the main causes of this was the migration of young professionals from the north to work in London, whereas it is much less common for young professionals from the south to move to a northern city.[1]

en.wikipedia.org...

The data shows just how the north-east of England is at the top of these indicators. The key rankings are:

• Most at risk of falling into poverty: Middlesborough
• Most likely to contain people living in poverty: Hull
• Most at risk of long-term unemployment: Newham
• Greatest risk of child poverty: Newham
• S Tyneside is the place most at risk of households with COPD, chronic obstructive pulmonary disease.

www.guardian.co.uk...

There were 2.9 million children who lived in families where the household income was just £236 a week – or £12,300 a year – considered as the poverty line in Britain.

Nearly 3 million children in poverty in Britain

And no free milk! Thanx Maggie. Could anyone be more evil?

Nine out of ten of the poorest areas in England are in the North West, a church charity has said.

www.bbc.co.uk...

A report from a group of charities has placed three of the region's towns in the worst ten for the number of families struggling below the breadline.

The worst town in our region is Middlesbrough, where almost 40 per cent of children live in poverty.

This figure is closely followed by Newcastle and Hartlepool.

www.itv.com...

At least 600,000 of almost 2.7 million Britons living in the Greater Manchester region, north of the UK, are struggling in “extreme poverty”, according to the Greater Manchester Poverty Commission.

www.presstv.ir...

If you want to see some big pictures click this...

www.poverty.ac.uk...

Some more...

With the UK economy on the verge of an economic collapse here are three brilliant short films about poverty in Britain today.

Being from sarf london I would expect you to only see the positive effects of Maggies war on the working class. For for those who don't know the North is predominantly working class, compared with the sarf, which is not.

I'm sure nobody can deny the Unions had a very nasty grip on the nation and that needed sorting out, but Maggie had a psychotic hatred of anything that went against her pettite bourgeoisie upbringing and like a great many of her voters had never known much in the way of hardship ever.

So when it came to sorting the Unions out she had no intention of trying things amicably, she just wanted rid of the dirty ungrateful buggers full stop. No ounce of sympathy for anyone, least of all those caught between her and Skargills pissing contest. The brothers, fathers and son's who still don't speak to each other to this day.

People can point out the Blair and Brown years all they like, they aren't even labour anymore. Blair himself was a massive Thatcherite and for all the hating on him, he still managed to get voted in time and again didn't he? Made himself quite the figure taking notes from the Holy Bible of Maggieisms. If it aint broke don't fix it, just fanny about looking like you are trying to fix it/make it worse and then run off with your £££'s at the end of it.

And now we are left with this shower of #e, who contrary to what fell out of Camerons mouth before, are actually on par or even worse than Thatcher and as we have witnessed these past days actually Idolise her as though he sucked off Iron teat personally.

So no, nothing much has changed for the better since Thatcher, hers was a perfect vision to keep the already trodden on face down in the dirt while you queeze the living crap out of their pride, self worth and rights to even a semi decent existance. God help us all......

I refer the right honourable ladies and gentlemen of ATS to this speach, hastily written and delivered by Kinnock
just days before the 1983 General Election. This may actually be the first real prophecy ATS has ever seen.


"If Margaret Thatcher is re-elected as prime minister on Thursday, I warn you.

I warn you that you will have pain–when healing and relief depend upon payment.

I warn you that you will have ignorance–when talents are untended and wits are wasted, when learning is a privilege and not a right.

I warn you that you will have poverty–when pensions slip and benefits are whittled away by a government that won’t pay in an economy that can’t pay.

I warn you that you will be cold–when fuel charges are used as a tax system that the rich don’t notice and the poor can’t afford.

I warn you that you must not expect work–when many cannot spend, more will not be able to earn. When they don’t earn, they don’t spend. When they don’t spend, work dies.

I warn you not to go into the streets alone after dark or into the streets in large crowds of protest in the light.


I warn you that you will be quiet–when the curfew of fear and the gibbet of unemployment make you obedient.

I warn you that you will have defence of a sort–with a risk and at a price that passes all understanding.

I warn you that you will be home-bound–when fares and transport bills kill leisure and lock you up.

I warn you that you will borrow less–when credit, loans, mortgages and easy payments are refused to people on your melting income.

If Margaret Thatcher wins on Thursday–

- I warn you not to be ordinary

- I warn you not to be young

- I warn you not to fall ill

- I warn you not to get old."

Welcome to whats left of Thatchers vision of Great Britain....

And to talk about Maggie putting family member against family member in life and divide a nation even in death, well, frankly it's not even funny.

I'd put this in the rant section, but it's not really a rant, just a major WTF moment I had last night while I was making dinner that I really must get off my chest.

My mum's been feeling a little poorly this past week, so I didn't bother taking the little one up as I normally would. Last night I had a call from my Dad that frankly sounded like he was on the verge of tears telling me she's taken what would seem a huge turn for the worse and not to go up with LO again. Not a prob anyway.

As he's 87 and suffers from the after effects of a mini stroke himself and she's in her early 60's I'm obviously at this point massivelly concerned about not just my mum, but how in hell my dads coping. He starts off with saying he really ought to get a doc to see her but she doesn't want one, so again I'm getting aggitated by the fact that he can barely walk in a straight line unaided himself and supposedly is having to get a woman back into a bed who's been crawling around on all fours in agony and throwing up all night, and this has been getting worse over the course of a week.

So I try to convince him to get her to the hospital or at least try to get a doc out, I gets all the "Yes, yes I will", I say I'll ring up again in a hour to check and he seems to put the phone down, but it's not down. OH's face drops and says have you heard this!!!! Next thing I'm stood there agast as my dad pleads with the woman to get help, and the demonic voice that is supposed to be my mother only succeeds in my Dad saying "Well why should I have to listen to advice from people like THEM!". And my demon possessed mother growls, "Don't need to listen to people LIKE THEM!!!." Phone promptly goes dead.

So I'm left all gobsmacked, half worried to death, half flipping fuming.

Oddly my dads attitude under the circumstances I can understand, he's always lashed out in the wrong direction when feeling somewhat corned, or in impotent frustration plus he's allowed to be gnarly in his old age but not my mother so I stand and try to reason it out calmly....

Has she read recently about the thing with Goths and hate crime and completely gotten the wrong end of the stick? In all honestly it's possible, so is it also possible that she is just plainly scared #less that she'll end up in hospital and given the old nill by mouth euthenasia treatment? I don't really know, but one thing I do know, is that they are both dyed in the wool Sun readers, sometimes not quite as rabid as the Daily Mail, but a rubbish White Van Man Thatcherite rag nonetheless....

Have my parents been agast these past few days at all those "disgusting" people in the paper rauciously dancing to Thatchers death. Oh yeah I guarentee they have, and while I have neither danced in the street, nor alone in the home or bothered with any FB snarking, confined my own gripes here and nary uttered a word about it to anyone and certainly not my parents, I suddenly find myself, their only child...People like them!

The only thing I can think of that actually makes me such, is that it seem's most of them disgustin' young'ins have unnaturally coloured hair, tattoo's and peircings for the most part just like me and him indoors...Tarred with the same brush as it were..

I haven't even bought the bloody stupid song...

So yeah, FML really...

Booo!