Media's Handling of Thatchers Death - Small comparison within.

reply to post by Suspiria


Nope, recent changes (last year I think) made it so anyone in Private rented housing is paid direct:

www.gov.uk...

Council tenants still have it paid direct into their "rent account" with the council.

I really wish that people moaning about benefit changes would avail themselves of the facts....

Originally posted by stumason

Originally posted by SearchLightsInc
Rent - Everyone has to live somewhere, its easier to pay the rent for them. They are not "receiving" that money to spend, they never even see it.

Not true. Housing benefit is paid direct to the claimant to pay the Landlord - hence why rental arrears have jumped massively since they stopped paying Landlords direct, because people see the big lump of money in their account and spend it, knowing it is actually quite hard to be evicted.

Well, maybe they should start paying landlords directly again since they obviously have a problem with people spending the money. You'd think it was a bunch of 6 year olds running this pissing country. While they're at it, cap the amount a landlord can charge a tenant or something, even out the paying field for those who are working yet forced to take up private rents because they're no social housing!

Originally posted by SearchLightsInc
Council Tax - All benefit claimants will now have to pay council tax (somehow out of their measly £53/£71 a week) So you can take that off your list. Yet another attack on the already poor.

Not true. The benefit still exists, but is has been decentralised to Local Authorities to set their own eligibility criteria and how much relief a household can claim.

Well, here in leeds, benefit claimants have to pay council tax now. So to me, its truth. Its yet another attack on the poorest of society, surprise surprise.

Originally posted by SearchLightsInc
Alcoholics get a daily allowance do they? Like to see some evidence for that.

Yes, they get disability and treatment paid for by the DWP.

www.dwp.gov.uk...
www.guardian.co.uk...
statistics.dwp.gov.uk...

And how many alcoholics are there on the dole and how do you suggest we curve the numbers? Its a disease and society needs to do more to put it in decline - Such as providing worthwhile jobs to the youth and giving people REAL purpose in the world other than going to work and having no money.

Originally posted by SearchLightsInc
If you really want to know what it's like being on the dole, put down your Daily Mail and go and experience it for yourself, or are you to good for that?

Says the guy who clearly believes the other side of the coin without checking his facts.... I've deliberately avoided Mail links above and included the lefty Guardian, as well as Government sources.

First off, i am a woman but i'll let that slide

My point is, yet again people are looking for the poor to "solve their own problems" while the "job creators" sit above everyone watching them bicker, knowing they have all of the control. Im tired of seeing the most disadvantaged in society consistently attacked just because they're on the dole and there's no jobs.

Originally posted by stumason
reply to post by Suspiria

 

Nope, recent changes (last year I think) made it so anyone in Private rented housing is paid direct:

www.gov.uk...

Council tenants still have it paid direct into their "rent account" with the council.

I really wish that people moaning about benefit changes would avail themselves of the facts....

Well I don't have an unscrupulous Private landlord anymore so I wouldn't know about that side Stu, thank heavens...

I'm 21 this year, so I'm way after Thatchers time..but I still feel my opinion is valid.

I feel this will never be resolved, the rich/middle class will say she benefitted the country in the long term, yet the poor and working class will say the opposite. Depending on where you lived AT THE TIME is probably the most important thing, I'm from Caerphilly in South Wales, I can vaugly remember my Great Uncle talking about how he lost his job in the mines, all of his friends were made redundant and there was a lot of unease around the area AT THE TIME. I've read accounts of people up north and in Scotland who said AT THE TIME, things were rough and she didn't make it better....there seems to be a correlation.

Looking back on times, can you honestly say the country has been fully happy? All classes, rich and poor, all colours, race etc. Nothing is perfect at the time, look at now for instance, people say we're still cleaning her mess up when in fact it's Blair and Browns mess. Politics don't help the matter because people take whatever they say as TRUTH, when a lot of the population is under the illusion of what is truth and what is fact.

So yeah you can insult her as much as you want, but bare in mind AT THE TIME, she was very corageous, confident and went against many many beliefs....plus she was our longest serving PM so she had to be doing something right (I don't agree with what she did, quite frankly I don't care, just wanted to add my opinion)

Jeez Im glad she was just a blip on the radar here. It went something like this "news news news oh yeah Margaret Thatcher died, good night"

Originally posted by SearchLightsInc
Well, maybe they should start paying landlords directly again since they obviously have a problem with people spending the money. You'd think it was a bunch of 6 year olds running this pissing country. While they're at it, cap the amount a landlord can charge a tenant or something, even out the paying field for those who are working yet forced to take up private rents because they're no social housing!

Perhaps, on both counts. As long as rent is capped for private renters who don't claim benefit as well as those who are paid benefits.

Originally posted by SearchLightsInc
Well, here in leeds, benefit claimants have to pay council tax now. So to me, its truth. Its yet another attack on the poorest of society, surprise surprise.

Really? Seems to me that you can still claim it.

Originally posted by SearchLightsInc
And how many alcoholics are there on the dole and how do you suggest we curve the numbers? Its a disease and society needs to do more to put it in decline -

A disease? Hardly. It's self-inflicted. Calling it a disease makes it sound like it is not anyone's fault, when it is.

Originally posted by SearchLightsInc
Such as providing worthwhile jobs to the youth and giving people REAL purpose in the world other than going to work and having no money.

So a record amount of people in apprenticeships and education is not good enough?

Originally posted by SearchLightsInc
First off, i am a woman but i'll let that slide

Fairy snuff My apologies...

Originally posted by SearchLightsInc
My point is, yet again people are looking for the poor to "solve their own problems" while the "job creators" sit above everyone watching them bicker, knowing they have all of the control. Im tired of seeing the most disadvantaged in society consistently attacked just because they're on the dole and there's no jobs.

Benefits are meant to be a safety net until you sort yourself out, not so you can sit on your arse waiting for someone else to sort your life out for you....

Originally posted by stumason

Originally posted by SearchLightsInc
And how much money is this country losing due to tax loops that are sought out by the wealthy because they dont feel that they should contribute any of their "Hard earnings" to British society? I can tell you, that the number is far greater than what the welfare tab currently is. Its runs into its BILLIONS.

Having a go at people who claim benefits while your masters are stuff money away in offshore bank accounts and paying the daily mail to make daily attacks on the jobless. You're a fool for buying it.

Again, not true. The NAO report says that tax avoidance by corporations costs the UK treasury something like £11 Billion a year (other reports say slightly higher or lower), whereas the Welfare bill in the UK is somewhere closer to £300 Billion.

www.bbc.co.uk...

And how many Billions where wasted on bailouts?

The public finances are dominated by the welfare state, which will cost the UK some £202.6 billion to maintain this year. The welfare budget includes pensions and tax credits, plus unemployment, sickness, housing, council tax, child support and other benefits

Source

Wasted money keeping the bottom feeders eh? Lets not forget, Maggie created long term benefit claimants.

Originally posted by SearchLightsInc
And how many Billions where wasted on bailouts?

You really can tell when someone is having trouble in a debate when they shift the goalposts...

The bailout was necessary. Can you even begin to understand what a mess this country would be if we allowed the banks to collapse? Jesus, it would make Maggie look like a friggin Saint...

Originally posted by SearchLightsInc
Wasted money keeping the bottom feeders eh? Lets not forget, Maggie created long term benefit claimants.

You're putting words in mouth now, I never said anything about wasted money nor "bottom feeders". Don't forget, if you've paid attention to my posts, I've been at the bottom of the pile myself.

Originally posted by stumason

Perhaps, on both counts. As long as rent is capped for private renters who don't claim benefit as well as those who are paid benefits.

Something has to be done and its just that simple.

Really? Seems to me that you can still claim it.

You get a discount - Which means they're still taking money from your pathetic £53/£71 per week. Therefore i am still paying council tax and on top of that, for everything else. As ive said, another attack on the poor.

A disease? Hardly. It's self-inflicted. Calling it a disease makes it sound like it is not anyone's fault, when it is.

There are many reasons why people are driven to drink and you'll find that many alcoholics simply cannot just go without. They have serious problems and it would seem its been okay for previous governments to just get them something extra for the drink rather than trying to actually resolve their issues. Either way, because they're an alcoholic its just another reason to call them scum, yes?

So a record amount of people in apprenticeships and education is not good enough?

Haha, if you call people working 40 hrs a week on £3/£4 an hour "good enough" then i worry for the direction this country is going in. That's slave labour and you know it. Apprenticeships are a great way of fiddling with statistics. Anyone over the 18 should be earning the minimum wage for any job, specially if they're working 40 hours week, call me a dreamer

Fairy snuff

My apologies...

Im not offended, i know its hard to tell

Benefits are meant to be a safety net until you sort yourself out, not so you can sit on your arse waiting for someone else to sort your life out for you....

Ive been trying to "sort my life out" for the past year. The funny thing is, there are people who sit on the dole and abuse the system, i agree. But then there are people like me who WANT to work, who LOOK for work, who actually apply for jobs, go to interviews (if i can get one!) and are STILL bottom of the pile.

The problem isnt all on the shoulders of the unemployed. That's what the media and idiots in government would have you believe because they dont want to admit their own short comings. They're created a country that is not interested in doing what's right for those less well off.

They want you you to work, but they dont want to provide you a job.
They want you to spend money for the economy - But they dont want you be paid enough to do it.
They want you to get educated - But they dont want to pay anything for it.
They want you in good health - But they want to privatize the NHS.

The hypocrisy goes on and nothing gets done.

And now they want to spend money on this woman's funeral even though half the country hates her. There is far to much wrong with this country alone, never mind the world.

Originally posted by stumason

Originally posted by SearchLightsInc
And how many Billions where wasted on bailouts?

You really can tell when someone is having trouble in a debate when they shift the goalposts...

Im sorry, i thought we were talking about money?

The bailout was necessary.

Thanks to the creation of the "boom&bust" culture created by maggie, not corrected by latter governments.

Can you even begin to understand what a mess this country would be if we allowed the banks to collapse? Jesus, it would make Maggie look like a friggin Saint...

And what since has been done to ensure another collapse doesnt happen? Nothing.

Originally posted by SearchLightsInc
Wasted money keeping the bottom feeders eh? Lets not forget, Maggie created long term benefit claimants.

You're putting words in mouth now, I never said anything about wasted money nor "bottom feeders". Don't forget, if you've paid attention to my posts, I've been at the bottom of the pile myself.

I am putting words in your mouth i apologise. I know you've been at the bottom and i dont discredit your experiences of it and of those around you, but i think i shall openly say i respectfully disagree with your views (which im sure is obvious )

Originally posted by SearchLightsInc
Something has to be done and its just that simple.

While it is simple to state "something has to be done", it isn't so simple to actually implement.

Originally posted by SearchLightsInc
You get a discount - Which means they're still taking money from your pathetic £53/£71 per week. Therefore i am still paying council tax and on top of that, for everything else. As ive said, another attack on the poor.

At least you get a discount (and it depends on your situation - you can still get the full discount if you meet the criteria), some of us have to pay full whack, no matter what. You say it's an attack on the "poor", but you "poor" don't realise us "middles" have been squeezed for years.

I lost my tax credits last year (£130 a month) and if my missus gets a job, we lose our child benefit too.(another £130 a month), I don't see anyone leaping to my defence, you just have to suck it up, but it seems the "poor" want us to continue paying while they make no sacrifices themselves.

Originally posted by SearchLightsInc
There are many reasons why people are driven to drink and you'll find that many alcoholics simply cannot just go without. They have serious problems and it would seem its been okay for previous governments to just get them something extra for the drink rather than trying to actually resolve their issues. Either way, because they're an alcoholic its just another reason to call them scum, yes?

Again, putting words in my mouth. I know about addiction, my ex was a heroin addict, but I still have little sympathy. We all have problems, but not everyone resorts to destroying themselves.

Originally posted by SearchLightsInc
Haha, if you call people working 40 hrs a week on £3/£4 an hour "good enough" then i worry for the direction this country is going in. That's slave labour and you know it. Apprenticeships are a great way of fiddling with statistics. Anyone over the 18 should be earning the minimum wage for any job, specially if they're working 40 hours week, call me a dreamer

I did a Modern Apprenticeship and it set me up for my career. I don't have a single bad word to say about the whole thing. I started out on £10k a year, whilst having to work 12+hr days with travel included - you do what you have to do! Even now, I work 48hr weeks, again no one is leaping to my defence.

Originally posted by SearchLightsInc
Ive been trying to "sort my life out" for the past year. The funny thing is, there are people who sit on the dole and abuse the system, i agree. But then there are people like me who WANT to work, who LOOK for work, who actually apply for jobs, go to interviews (if i can get one!) and are STILL bottom of the pile.

Please don't think I am making anything personal with you, but I have been there myself and I worked it all out without any help from the Government. For a few months, I was even homeless, but here I am, 10 years later.... Although, according to the BBC I am still only "emergent service" (second from bottom) class as I don't own my own home.

What I am trying to say is don't wait for the system to help you, it won't. Spread your wings, look further afield, move? It's what our ancestors did in the industrial revolution, go to where the work is, don't wait for it to come to you.

I know the country is a mess and I know it isn't easy, but sitting around wiating for the shower of crap in power to sort it out won't do anything. The country needs a revolution and a top to bottom change, but unless people get galvanised (and lets face it, most think politics is "boring so they won't act) then you have to make your own way.

Originally posted by stumason

At least you get a discount (and it depends on your situation - you can still get the full discount if you meet the criteria), some of us have to pay full whack, no matter what. You say it's an attack on the "poor", but you "poor" don't realise us "middles" have been squeezed for years.

Did you really just complain that the middle have been squeezed for years!? Are you SERIOUS!?

I lost my tax credits last year (£130 a month) and if my missus gets a job, we lose our child benefit too.(another £130 a month), I don't see anyone leaping to my defence, you just have to suck it up, but it seems the "poor" want us to continue paying while they make no sacrifices themselves.

The fact is, you shouldn't have been getting tax credits - Your employer should have been paying you a living wage. I am in your defence mate, i want you to be able to work hard and live respectably. I want the same for myself and everyone else, but until you wash the fairy dust from your eyes you're not going to realise that that were all getting screwed and it makes it more bareble for some when they think that something else is getting more screwed then them! Easy to vilify the poor than take up issue with the people running the show, eh?

Again, putting words in my mouth. I know about addiction, my ex was a heroin addict, but I still have little sympathy. We all have problems, but not everyone resorts to destroying themselves.

But you have to accept that some people DO resort to that. Not everyone can manage their problems by themselves, have some compassion.

I did a Modern Apprenticeship and it set me up for my career. I don't have a single bad word to say about the whole thing. I started out on £10k a year, whilst having to work 12+hr days with travel included - you do what you have to do! Even now, I work 48hr weeks, again no one is leaping to my defence.

How many years ago was that? Before the recession i suspect? I would bet it was more profitable then to work for nothing then until you got your skills to move into a better job. What about today? Can you honestly say its the same?

Please don't think I am making anything personal with you, but I have been there myself and I worked it all out without any help from the Government. For a few months, I was even homeless, but here I am, 10 years later.... Although, according to the BBC I am still only "emergent service" (second from bottom) class as I don't own my own home.
What I am trying to say is don't wait for the system to help you, it won't. Spread your wings, look further afield, move? It's what our ancestors did in the industrial revolution, go to where the work is, don't wait for it to come to you.

Im not taking it personally but this air of "If i can do it, so can everyone else" is just... I dont feel like it has place in this debate. Im glad you got on and sorted your life out but there's just less opportunity these days. I live in Leeds, what are the chances of me moving to another city and being better off? Really now?

I know the country is a mess and I know it isn't easy, but sitting around wiating for the shower of crap in power to sort it out won't do anything.

Yano i worked as an xmas temp at sainsburys, did a brilliant job, never late, never absent, got on with staff, did my job fantasticly - After my 3 months was up i was told (To the shock of all the staff there) that i just "wasnt what they were looking for" so i was released. I later found out that they kept on an asian girl who barely spoke a word of english. I could sit around being bitter that im a victim of positive discrimination but instead, all ive done since january is apply for job after job and there is nothing, and then to hear the media continually sprout attacks on the poor.. well... im cornered really eh? Nothing i do is enough it would seem.

The country needs a revolution and a top to bottom change, but unless people get galvanised (and lets face it, most think politics is "boring so they won't act) then you have to make your own way.

And i was hoping the death of thatcher would bring people together, perhaps that's the reason they're slagging those people who are out celebrating?

Anyhow, i have other tasks to accomplish today! Been lovely to debate your POV as usual Mr.Mason

reply to post by SearchLightsInc


The power has gone to the employers, employees have none at the moment.
I took on a job looking after the elderly and I was told my contracted hours is only 6.5 per week but I would get a lot more than that, the reason why it is only 6.5 hours per week is to do with holiday pay so I can not afford to take a week off.

I used to get a full 40 hours in but since the new pension thing came in my employers found out If you work less than 16 hours they do not have to pay into a pension so we have all had our hours cut to 16 hours just so the owners do not have to pay any more money.

Get another job I hear you all say...I have signed on to 4 agencies and worked for all of them but because my hours are not set and change every week when they ring up and ask me to work and I tell them I can not due to working that day they say "we only give you 1 chance" so I do not get any more calls from those agencies.
I have looked into working at other care homes but they are only offering 16 hours cos they too know that they can get out of paying a pension If people only work less than 16 hours.

I have sent out about 150 CV's in two months and have had 4 interviews..no luck there
Plus I can not get any help from the social due to myself moving back to my mums house because she is not well and I have to help her out.
She can not get anything from the social because she injured her back (at work btw) but no one wants to take responsibly for her injury and her husband works full time.
If I can not get work soon we lose my mums house in about 2 months.

I would be so much better off just getting fired from work, moving out and claiming benifits.

Anyhow my little post turned into a major rant and I forgot my point

reply to post by boymonkey74


I also joined employment agencies and had the same problems with them as you. They won't ring you to offer any more work if you're not available to go when ever and where ever they want to send you. They all do it.

I was widowed at 32 years of age with 3 very small kids and had to give up my part-time machining job when my husband died suddenly aged 35, he was the primary earner and we were just a young hard-working family. I struggled single-handedly to raise my young family and I never remarried. When my youngest left school to go to college, I began to look for work.

I managed to get a crap job at Domino's delivering their over-priced food for minimum pay. It's all I could get because I had no experience of anything except as a sewing machinist in textiles, and wife, mother and homemaker.

I worked as many hours as I could get, but they only employed part-time workers and some weeks I only worked 6 hours. They deliberately kept everyone's hours down and were forced to claim benefits. Some weeks I got a few extra hours in, but it wasn't an income I could rely on because the hours weren't regular. I was luckier tham the others in that I had an occupational pension since the death of my husband, it wasn't much but better than nothing.

The franchisee's were immigrants from Pakistan, and every time any of their family or friends came over here to work, the franchisee would take a couple of hours work from each employee to make room for the relative, who often ended up with near full-time hours at the cost of the rest of us. Didn't make any difference protesting, it got us nowhere. New employees never cost the boss any extra in wages, he just took hours from us and gave them away. They eventually 'let me go' when my car broke down and I couldn't deliver orders. They didn't offer me anything to do in-store either. I had worked there for 7 years by this time. I was gutted. That was 2 years ago, I had my home repossessed last year, became homeless until local authority rehoused me, and I have been unemployed since.

I couldn't claim unemployment benefit because I was told by Jobcentre, that when I worked for those 7 years at Domino's I wasn't working enough hours to pay National Insurance contributions and therefore was denied benefit, so they turned me away.

I apply for countless jobs and I have never been offered so much as an interview in all this time. I don't blame bosses for not wanting me, after all there is nothing really impressive I can put on my CV. Even McDonalds don't want me lol. They prefer to hire under 18's, because the minimum pay for them is less than it would be to hire me.

I feel as though I am on the scrapheap at 55.

Employers=slave masters. That's the basic relationship in most of the UK. I truly consider people who work in jobs they hate, no better off than prostitutes, because they are indeed selling themselves, selling their souls, degrading themselves in order to make a legalized pimp rich.
For the tiny minority that do enjoy their work, they are the lucky ones. the rest of humanity do not enjoy getting up at the crack of dawn to do a 9-5 and lots of them have to do unpaid overtime and if they don't they fear losing their jobs. to highlight the fact it is slavery, why is it that millions of people, including many I know, are forced to work hours overtime with no extra pay..sounds like slavery to me. No union will back them up these days, their fellow workers will keep their mouth shut too, this is Thatchers legacy.
Oh she made it possible to buy out council houses, did she. well back in the 70's a typical house could be bought out right by most factory workers after about 5-8 years, get it and those were not council houses, so thatcher didn't make buying houses easier at all. Also who really wants to live on a council estate, it is not a privilege and never was one..if someone said thatcher made it easier for people to own "decent housing" that would be different, living in a tower block or crime ridden estate is hardly a decent quality of life..
What thatcher did was throw a bone to the poor, whilst taking all the meat for the rich.
Since thatcher we had property bubbles, that made it so ordinary people could not get a house anywhere, we have no working class left pretty much, just the reminent of the working class, the despised underclass, who only came into being because the traditional role for them as workers was binned.
The truth is the poor were useful for cannon fodder in world war 1, and for manning factories and coal mines during the industrial revolution but since globalization, where the rich discovered they could better exploit workers in the far east, for greater profits..well the workers of Briton became obsolete..We don't really even need a proper military these days because we have nuclear weapons to scare people off.
Thats the bottom line, the working class never went away the jobs did, their role did, their role as working men and providers went, their identity as a people was sold out. Their grand children are the underclass, who have no role in this country, through no fault of their own. If Australia was still under British control i am sure the Torys would re introduce exporting the underclass for shoplifting bread etc.
Briton created the working class when it was useful to increase power for the very elite, now they have no need for their children, so what to do...because their are 10's of millions of the underclass, I am curious to see if they will collectively wake up at some point as to what is in sore for them.
The burden on benefits is a burden thatcher created. Now that we have second and third generations of underclass, it is now just as ingrained in the people as working class mentality was. Do people not get this basic stuff. if your brought up with a father who cannot get a job, you repeat that pattern and so does your son. Included in this way of life is despair, substance abuse, crime etc and with each generation the working class identity gets further removed until you wind up on Jeremy kyle, and that is what the propaganda likes to portray as Britain's underclass, yes many are depressingly depraved, but many still have a brain and intelligence and pride..but they are all tarred with the same brush these days, just as if they were the Jews in Germany during Hitlers propaganda. Thatchers legacy.
The underclass of Briton are treated as human waste, parasites, have no doubt the medias propaganda is the same as Hitlers portrayal of the Jews, parasites and filthy.
Remember all of you who are Britons that the poor of Briton are your own country men and women,, and hating them because they have no other options than to scrape by in life..blaming them for the state of the country..and scapegoating them. Your no better than NAZIS. Swap the word Jew for Underclass.

reply to post by doobydoll


Your's is exactly the kind of reality that the ignorant A holes who read the daily mail and sun do not get or even want to understand, because its easier for their world view to call everyone who is poor lazy. Lots of people seen the kind of work you had as nothing better than the dole, worse in fact, because you get treated like crap and have to make an effort for the privilege of being used as some expendable object with no rights and low pay.
Good luck to you anyway,there are many millions of Britons who have had the same rotten deal...sad thing is I see nothing improving, just getting a lot worse, well unless people really wake up and I see no signs of that.