posted on Apr, 11 2013 @ 06:10 AM
Originally posted by adjensen
Originally posted by Cancerwarrior
reply to post by adjensen
Yes, actually it does, because the reason that they excluded those other texts from consideration for inclusion in the canon is that they
cannot possibly be true. Not in the whole, anyway.
The same can be said for the 4 new testament gospels.
I don't think you have actually read any of them. If you did, you would see there is truth in alot of what is said there. Gnosis is (IMHO) the closest
to what is the core religion.
Of course I've read them.
And, unlike you, apparently, I understood them.
Judaism is not a "world religion", just another perspective on some vaguely ethereal mysteries. It is an exclusive religion, with a very
specific view of God, his characteristics and his intent, and, for Judaism, that doesn't include you, me or anyone who is not a son of Abraham.
In the New Testament, Jesus affirms that. He is not merely a Jew, he is a Rabbi, a teacher, qualified to speak in the synagogue and debate the Law
with the best of them. His teachings, which are contrary to the religious leaders of the time, but still very firmly rooted in the Law, are frequently
described as astounding his listeners for their insights.
There is nothing in the New Testament that can be reconciled with the teachings of the Gnostics, because they are two completely disparate theologies,
utterly incompatible without significantly distorting one or the other.
The concept of Gnosis is the universal to all humankind and is the essential "knowing" that arises from the experience of objective reality,
universally experienced by all those who fully awaken and develop their Consciousness. I do not claim to be fully awakened but I am trying, I want to
be and to learn. The science or path to arrive at knowing that reality for oneself, in ones own experience, is also called Gnosis, because it leads to
the acquisition of one’s own Gnosis of fundamental truth.
This may be what you think it is, and it is a common misunderstanding, which arose from the 19th Century resurrection of Gnosticism, but which has
very little in common with that which existed in the Second Century.
In Christian Gnosticism, the only thing that you need to be "awakened to" is that you need to find a Gnostic Master to teach you what the Gnosis is --
Gnosis is not the discovery of Gnosis, it is that specific knowledge that was passed from master to student, after the student had spent enough time
at the master's feet (and filling the master's purse, of course.)
Unfortunately for you, the Gnosis couldn't be written down, and the last master with the knowledge died a very long time ago.
You keep lumping all of the Gnostic texts together (even though I have only commented on Thomas and Mary.) because I guess you just can't seem to
understand there were MANY versions of Gnosticism just like there are MANY versions of Christianity today. It is like you are very ignorantly saying
Mormons and Baptists are the same thing. All modern versions of Christianity are the same as the early ones, they are all very different. None of
them are true or false by themselves. I've never read anything in Thomas or Mary saying they need a Gnostic master and have to pay him money. The
Judeo-Christian God sure says as much though, in several different parts of the bible. Sounds like you are confusing the two.
And despite what you say a good many things in the gospel of Thomas goes in line with the teachings of Jesus. And is probably closer to what Jesus
says since it dates to the early beginnings of Christianity and much of it is older than the 4 canon gospels.
"If a blind person leads a bind person, both of them will fall into a hole."
"Do not fret, from morning to evening and from evening to morning, about what you are going to wear. "
"Grapes are not harvested from thorn trees, nor are figs gathered from thistles, for they yield no fruit. Good persons produce good from what they've
stored up; bad persons produce evil from the wickedness they've stored up in their hearts, and say evil things. For from the overflow of the heart
they produce evil."
Yep, none of this sounds like Jesus at all.
Things like the golden rule, doing unto others as you would have them do to you and being responsible for your actions. I doubt you have really read
it. Anyone can see the wisdom in this book. I guess they are radical ideas for an orthodox christian or jew, or in your case a Lutheran pastor who
studied at seminary and is a self appointed expert on such things.
edit on 11-4-2013 by Cancerwarrior because: (no reason
edit on 11-4-2013 by Cancerwarrior because: (no reason given)
edit on 11-4-2013 by Cancerwarrior because: (no