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The Gospel of Judas is a fragmented Coptic (Egyptian)-language text that portrays Judas in a far more sympathetic light than did the gospels that made it into the Bible. In this version of the story, Judas turns Jesus over to the authorities for execution upon Jesus' request, as part of a plan to release his spirit from his body. In the accepted biblical version of the tale, Judas betrays Jesus for 30 pieces of silver.
Barabe hit the books, looking for other studies on early Egyptian inks. The study of Egyptian marriage certificates and land documents from the Louvre proved to be the clincher.
That study found that contracts in Egypt in the mid-third century were written in lamp black ink, in the traditional Egyptian style. But they were officially registered in the traditional Greek style, using brown iron gall ink.
The Louvre study findings suggested to the teamthat the presence of both inks was consistent with an early date for the Gospel of Judas, Barabe said.
What's more, the Louvre study found that the metal-based inks from this time period contained little sulfur, just like the ink on the Gospel of Judas.
The discovery gave the researchers the confidence to declare the document consistent with a date of approximately A.D. 280. (Barabe and his colleagues caution that this finding doesn't prove beyond doubt that the document is authentic, but rather that there are no red flags proving it's a forgery.)
Originally posted by Osiris1953
reply to post by retirednature
I've always found the idea of the Gospel of Judas. To me it's always seemed to be a more plausible story. Thank for the thread, I'm glad you posted this.
Originally posted by lonewolf19792000
Originally posted by Osiris1953
reply to post by retirednature
I've always found the idea of the Gospel of Judas. To me it's always seemed to be a more plausible story. Thank for the thread, I'm glad you posted this.
Wouldn't believe anything Judas supposedly wrote, besides he hanged himself right after his betrayal. Jesus also said it would be better for him if he had never been born. Not going to be real nice whats coming for him at the end.
His death certainly didn't require Judas. There was more than enough Jewish anger towards Him that it could have happened at many different times or places. Besides, do you think that Jesus would not have been immortalized absent Judas?
Doesn't it make more sense that Jesus, in order to finish his plan and become immortalized forever would have to go through with the crucifixion, in which Judas helped move along?
Here I must disagree. It was never claimed that Jesus invented a new morality, He was calling those condemned by the old one. And the style of the New Testament can't be found in previous literature. The reporting of the episodes of His life is more realistic and detail oriented than previous writings. It was a new style of literature.
The form, the means, the style, the entire discussion that is the New Testament just seems like a rehash of Ancient Greek Philosophy.
Originally posted by charles1952
I'm not sure I understand this. The article says that there wasn't any obvious proof that it was a forgery and that a date of 280 A.D. seems reasonable. Isn't that a little late for a new story to be written about Jesus? That in itself makes we wonder about it.
Also remember that the death of Jesus, while important, isn't the key. We are all going to die sooner or later. The most important part is the Resurrection.
His death certainly didn't require Judas. There was more than enough Jewish anger towards Him that it could have happened at many different times or places. Besides, do you think that Jesus would not have been immortalized absent Judas?
Doesn't it make more sense that Jesus, in order to finish his plan and become immortalized forever would have to go through with the crucifixion, in which Judas helped move along?
His persecution and crucifixion was only evil because Judas was involved? I'm sorry, that kind of death is evil regardless of the parties involved.
Here I must disagree. It was never claimed that Jesus invented a new morality, He was calling those condemned by the old one. And the style of the New Testament can't be found in previous literature. The reporting of the episodes of His life is more realistic and detail oriented than previous writings. It was a new style of literature.
The form, the means, the style, the entire discussion that is the New Testament just seems like a rehash of Ancient Greek Philosophy.
Originally posted by FlyInTheOintment
reply to post by charles1952
Good comments! If you haven't already, you should read: "Desire of the Everlasting Hills - the world before & after Jesus" by Thomas Cahill.,
Truly excellent book, really gives one a solid appreciation of just how radical the life & ministry of Jesus were, in the context of the Age of Empire, plus the kickback from established orthodoxy in Judaic groups, as well as a good exposition of the contextual circumstance, literary & philosophical styles, and political impact of the writers of the gospels, letters comprising the New Testament.
He also (Thomas Cahill) wrote an excellent book called 'The Gifts of the Jews - how a small tribe of desert nomads changed the way we all think & feel', which wonderfully sums up the path they forged in their own understanding of and relationship with God, and the way in which they were called to highlight an eternal plan of grace & mercy, despite their essentially beginning as somewhat roughshod, ill-disciplined wanderers, without much tact or spiritual sensitivity.
Hellenistic philosophy and Christianity refers to the complex interaction between Hellenistic philosophy and early Christianity during the first four centuries AD.
The conflict between the two modes of thought is recorded in Paul's encounters with Epicurean and Stoic philosophers in Acts 17:18, his diatribe against Greek philosophy in 1Corinthians 1:18-31 and his warning against philosophy in Colossians 2:8. However, as Christianity spread throughout the Hellenic world, an increasing number of church leaders were educated in Greek philosophy. The dominant philosophical traditions of the Greco-Roman world at the time were Stoicism, Platonism, and Epicureanism. Stoicism and particularly Platonism were readily incorporated into Christian ethics and Christian theology.
One early Christian writer of the 2nd and early 3rd century, Clement of Alexandria, demonstrated Greek thought in writing,
"Philosophy has been given to the Greeks as their own kind of Covenant, their foundation for the philosophy of Christ ... the philosophy of the Greeks ... contains the basic elements of that genuine and perfect knowledge which is higher than human ... even upon those spiritual objects." (Miscellanies 6. 8)
The Church historian Eusebius suggested, essentially, that Greek philosophy had been supplied providentially as a preparation for the Gospel. Augustine of Hippo, who ultimately systematized Christian philosophy, wrote in the 4th and early 5th century,
But when I read those books of the Platonists I was taught by them to seek incorporeal truth, so I saw your 'invisible things, understood by the things that are made' (Confessions 7. 20).
Something about becoming the thirteenth, being cursed by other generations, coming to rule over them, the last days and people cursing his ascent to heaven(in this case, the holy generation). It will all make sense if you read it.
13 is also a mystical and magical number in mythology, the occult, mysteries and ancient history.
There are 12 Knights of the Round Table as well as King Arthur himself.
(12 + 1 = 13)
Arthurian Myth - Lady of the Lake has 13 letters.
During the quest for the Holy Grail, a damsel offers Bors (Knight of King Arthur) her love, which he refuses. Because of this the damsel along with 12 other women (1 + 12 = 13) threaten to throw themselves from a tower. As they fall from the tower Bors thinks they had better lose their souls than his so he crosses himself and all vanish due to it being a deceit of the Devil.
Arthurian Grail Legends
Conte Del Graal = 13 letters
Didot Perceval = 13 letters
Merlin was said to have been captured by Nimue disguised as a hare. The legend says he now guards the 13 Treasures of Britain and awaits rebirth. At Alderley Edge in Cheshire, Merlin is said to be underground with 13 Knights waiting for England’s hour of need.
The 13th Tarot card is Death.
The 13th Rune is Eiwaz. This rune is the balance point between light and dark.
There are said to be 13 Crystal Skulls.
In Norse mythology, an honorary banquet was held in Valhalla for Baldur with 12 Norse Gods. Loki arrives but is an uninvited guest. He is the 13th guest.
In Norse mythology 13 is a symbol of the Goddess Freya and her day is Friday.
On Friday 13th October 1307 the Knights Templar were arrested by order of the King of France Philippe IV.
Jacques de Molay the last Grand Master of the Knights Templar was burned to death on Friday 13th March 1314.
13 is a very unique and special number to the Illuminati. There main numbers are 3, 7, 9, 11, 13, 33
The 13th Degree in Freemasonry is called the Royal Arch.
13 is the most correct number for Freemasons.
New World Order = 13 letters
There are said to be 13 Illuminati families, these are:
Astor
Bundy
Collins
Dupont
Freeman
Kennedy
Li
Onassis
Reynolds
Rockefeller
Rothschild
Russell
Van Duyn
In Ancient China the meaning of the number 13 was Completion and Perfection.
In Numerology the Western Astrological Series of numbers 13 means New Beginnings.
In some occult circles the days of the week are ruled by 13 angels:
Monday – Gabriel
Tuesday – Zamael and Khamael
Wednesday – Michael and Raphael
Thursday – Tzaphiel and Sachiel
Friday – Anael and Haniel
Saturday – Tzaphiel and Cassiel
Sunday – Michael and Raphael
The 13th Hexagram of the I-Ching is T’ung Jen – Fellowship with men.
There are 13 notches on the horn carried by the Venus of Laussel.
The secretive Sisters of the Divine Goddess use this number as their emblem. They are the followers of the 13th Fae of Annwn. Their leaders are the Thirteenth Sage and the Thirteenth Goddess or Lady Fae of the Lake.
In ancient mythology the number 13 represents the Great Mother Goddess.
In Classical Antiquity the 13th member of a group was considered to be a leader.
13 is an emblem for Sacred and Secret Knowledge.
An Old English Superstition says that if 13 people meet in a room one of them will die within the year.
An old saying states that if you have 13 letters in your name you will have the Devil’s luck.
(People with 13 letters in their name)
In England the day of 24 hours used to be divided into 13 parts:
After-Midnight
Cock-Crow
Between the first Cock-Crow and Daybreak
Dawn
Morning
Noon
Afternoon
Sunset
Twilight
Evening
Candle-Time
Bed-Time
Dead of Night
The Battle of Hastings in England was in 1066 (1 + 0 + 6 + 6 = 13)
Old English death portent – A clock striking 13 is an omen of death.
In Old England farmers wives would always set 13 eggs under a hen for incubation, considering it unlucky to provide the hen with an even number.
In Herefordshire and Monmouthshire the Wassailing Ceremony was applied to farm crops and livestock. During this ceremony the farmer and his men would make a ring of 12 small bonfires around 1 large bonfire. (12 + 1 = 13)
Gerald Gardner believed 13 was the ideal number for a coven. This was made up of six perfect couples of men and women, plus a leader.
Gerald B. Gardner was born on Friday 13th June 1884.
13 Witches were executed at Salem during the Witch Trials in 1692.
Witchcraft - Book of Shadows = 13 letters.
A Witches Coven traditionally numbers 13.
The Council of American Witches has 13 Principles of Wiccan belief.
13 was the original number of covens that formed COG (Covenant of the Goddess) in 1975.
13 was the number of pages of a brief written on Witchcraft by the American law firm Nixon, Mudge, Rose, Guthrie and Alexander of New York City in the 1960's.
etc....
Let me ask you this, does everything go happen if Judas doesn't betray him?
Just a quick, stray thought. How did Judas die?