Truth Behind Gospel of Judas Revealed in Ancient Inks

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posted on Apr, 8 2013 @ 10:05 PM
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news.yahoo.com...

Truth Behind Gospel of Judas Revealed in Ancient Inks



The Gospel of Judas is a fragmented Coptic (Egyptian)-language text that portrays Judas in a far more sympathetic light than did the gospels that made it into the Bible. In this version of the story, Judas turns Jesus over to the authorities for execution upon Jesus' request, as part of a plan to release his spirit from his body. In the accepted biblical version of the tale, Judas betrays Jesus for 30 pieces of silver.


Say what!?

How was this authenticated?




Barabe hit the books, looking for other studies on early Egyptian inks. The study of Egyptian marriage certificates and land documents from the Louvre proved to be the clincher.

That study found that contracts in Egypt in the mid-third century were written in lamp black ink, in the traditional Egyptian style. But they were officially registered in the traditional Greek style, using brown iron gall ink.

The Louvre study findings suggested to the teamthat the presence of both inks was consistent with an early date for the Gospel of Judas, Barabe said.

What's more, the Louvre study found that the metal-based inks from this time period contained little sulfur, just like the ink on the Gospel of Judas.

The discovery gave the researchers the confidence to declare the document consistent with a date of approximately A.D. 280. (Barabe and his colleagues caution that this finding doesn't prove beyond doubt that the document is authentic, but rather that there are no red flags proving it's a forgery.)


I've always wondered why people would believe that Judas betrayed Jesus for a little silver, I mean... cmon, it's Jesus right? JustSayin'

That's where the conspiracy comes in.

Doesn't it make more sense that Jesus, in order to finish his plan and become immortalized forever would have to go through with the crucifixion, in which Judas helped move along?

But if you tell it that way, it takes away from the 'evilness' that was his persecution and crucifixion, it just wouldn't jive. Excuse my ignorance, but to me... it all seems very, hmmm... Socrates like, or Plato's account of Socrates' execution. Now, I've always been under the impression that if there was never Socrates, Plato, and Pythagoras(countless others, but you get the point) that there would have never been the story of Jesus. The form, the means, the style, the entire discussion that is the New Testament just seems like a rehash of Ancient Greek Philosophy. Am I the only one?

I know there's plenty of self proclaimed biblical scholars on ATS, so I thought I'd share and get some opinions. Maybe learn a thing or two, hopefully three.




posted on Apr, 8 2013 @ 10:31 PM
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reply to post by retirednature
 


I've always found the idea of the Gospel of Judas. To me it's always seemed to be a more plausible story. Thank for the thread, I'm glad you posted this.



posted on Apr, 8 2013 @ 10:36 PM
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Originally posted by Osiris1953
reply to post by retirednature
 


I've always found the idea of the Gospel of Judas. To me it's always seemed to be a more plausible story. Thank for the thread, I'm glad you posted this.


Wouldn't believe anything Judas supposedly wrote, besides he hanged himself right after his betrayal. Jesus also said it would be better for him if he had never been born. Not going to be real nice whats coming for him at the end.



posted on Apr, 8 2013 @ 10:45 PM
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Originally posted by lonewolf19792000

Originally posted by Osiris1953
reply to post by retirednature
 


I've always found the idea of the Gospel of Judas. To me it's always seemed to be a more plausible story. Thank for the thread, I'm glad you posted this.


Wouldn't believe anything Judas supposedly wrote, besides he hanged himself right after his betrayal. Jesus also said it would be better for him if he had never been born. Not going to be real nice whats coming for him at the end.


Granted, it might be asking much...

But could you share where it is written that Jesus said it would be better for Judas if he was never born?

I'm guessing that you're suggesting that Judas was going to hell, correct?

Because in this version:

Jesus said to Judas
"You will be cursed by the other generations—and you will come to rule over them,''

Is it not possible that what you're saying was included in the texts to discredit the name of Judas. Which in return would further secure the dissolve of truth, that being Judas turned in Jesus at Jesus' request?

Conspiracy!



posted on Apr, 8 2013 @ 10:47 PM
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I'm not sure I understand this. The article says that there wasn't any obvious proof that it was a forgery and that a date of 280 A.D. seems reasonable. Isn't that a little late for a new story to be written about Jesus? That in itself makes we wonder about it.

Also remember that the death of Jesus, while important, isn't the key. We are all going to die sooner or later. The most important part is the Resurrection.


Doesn't it make more sense that Jesus, in order to finish his plan and become immortalized forever would have to go through with the crucifixion, in which Judas helped move along?
His death certainly didn't require Judas. There was more than enough Jewish anger towards Him that it could have happened at many different times or places. Besides, do you think that Jesus would not have been immortalized absent Judas?

His persecution and crucifixion was only evil because Judas was involved? I'm sorry, that kind of death is evil regardless of the parties involved.


The form, the means, the style, the entire discussion that is the New Testament just seems like a rehash of Ancient Greek Philosophy.
Here I must disagree. It was never claimed that Jesus invented a new morality, He was calling those condemned by the old one. And the style of the New Testament can't be found in previous literature. The reporting of the episodes of His life is more realistic and detail oriented than previous writings. It was a new style of literature.



posted on Apr, 8 2013 @ 11:05 PM
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The Gospels were all written after Christ died. As a matter of fact none were written by the Apostles. With maybe 1 exception.



posted on Apr, 8 2013 @ 11:25 PM
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reply to post by charles1952
 


Good comments! If you haven't already, you should read: "Desire of the Everlasting Hills - the world before & after Jesus" by Thomas Cahill.,

Truly excellent book, really gives one a solid appreciation of just how radical the life & ministry of Jesus were, in the context of the Age of Empire, plus the kickback from established orthodoxy in Judaic groups, as well as a good exposition of the contextual circumstance, literary & philosophical styles, and political impact of the writers of the gospels, letters comprising the New Testament.

He also (Thomas Cahill) wrote an excellent book called 'The Gifts of the Jews - how a small tribe of desert nomads changed the way we all think & feel', which wonderfully sums up the path they forged in their own understanding of and relationship with God, and the way in which they were called to highlight an eternal plan of grace & mercy, despite their essentially beginning as somewhat roughshod, ill-disciplined wanderers, without much tact or spiritual sensitivity.



posted on Apr, 8 2013 @ 11:42 PM
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Originally posted by charles1952
I'm not sure I understand this. The article says that there wasn't any obvious proof that it was a forgery and that a date of 280 A.D. seems reasonable. Isn't that a little late for a new story to be written about Jesus? That in itself makes we wonder about it.

Also remember that the death of Jesus, while important, isn't the key. We are all going to die sooner or later. The most important part is the Resurrection.


Doesn't it make more sense that Jesus, in order to finish his plan and become immortalized forever would have to go through with the crucifixion, in which Judas helped move along?
His death certainly didn't require Judas. There was more than enough Jewish anger towards Him that it could have happened at many different times or places. Besides, do you think that Jesus would not have been immortalized absent Judas?

His persecution and crucifixion was only evil because Judas was involved? I'm sorry, that kind of death is evil regardless of the parties involved.


The form, the means, the style, the entire discussion that is the New Testament just seems like a rehash of Ancient Greek Philosophy.
Here I must disagree. It was never claimed that Jesus invented a new morality, He was calling those condemned by the old one. And the style of the New Testament can't be found in previous literature. The reporting of the episodes of His life is more realistic and detail oriented than previous writings. It was a new style of literature.


A little late? All the books were a little late!!! But that's not the focus of this conversation. We could go on forever and basically claim that the entire New Testament is inherently false due to the time lapse. That's too easy...

We're all going to die sooner or later?
Obviously... but hear me out. This was no natural death, accidental, or murder for no reason. This was a very scripted(maybe seems that way considering it's a book lol) account of how things actually happened. To include the betrayal, in my opinion, only solidified and sold the story. There's so many ways in which to elaborate on that, but I'll just leave it at "think about all the times you've heard it, and the importance of this story, the interpretations and such). Death inevitable, yes... his death, something special.

His resurrection is only half the story, maybe the climax... but would have never been witnessed or gained recognition if it weren't for everything that lead to it, aka his crucifixion and the 12. I would also argue the validity of the story, but again, not the focus. We could go on forever and basically claim that the entire New Testament is inherently false, this time due to more than the time lapse.... lets try embellishment.

It was more evil that Judas was involved! lol Granted, crucifixion is evil in its own rite(used in context, seriously, think about it), but to include Jesus! to include the son of God! to include Jews! to include deniers! Yes, it was especially evil considering the parties involved. It could be said that the entire New Testament is even a slap in the face to Jews, a bunch of false prophets and such. To clarify, this is not my opinion, just stating the facts.

If you want to tackle the entirety of the New Testament and it's parallels with Greek Philosophy and rhetoric... well, that's just too easy lol. New style? Yes, rhetoric, no... isn't Jesus even called by some the Logos of Christianity. What do you think that is!>? Word, discourse, reason... the flow of the words of Jesus certainly mirror that of greek philosophy, but the difference is, this was an epic story. This wasn't just the life of Socrates and how he died, this wasn't about Plato and his ramblings(very appropriate), this was an Epic, this was an advanced religion, and an epic story. Not just some small round table philosophers club worshiping numbers, logic, shape, form and geometry lol. So yeah, they're different, but nothing new. From what I've read(not enough lol), the similarities can't be missed. I don't have any pdfs or the books available to really try to show the connections. hmmm... lol. This might have to wait, because I'm currently visiting my parents. I know, I know... it's an ATS sin to not bring proof.

flame on?



posted on Apr, 8 2013 @ 11:48 PM
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Originally posted by FlyInTheOintment
reply to post by charles1952
 


Good comments! If you haven't already, you should read: "Desire of the Everlasting Hills - the world before & after Jesus" by Thomas Cahill.,

Truly excellent book, really gives one a solid appreciation of just how radical the life & ministry of Jesus were, in the context of the Age of Empire, plus the kickback from established orthodoxy in Judaic groups, as well as a good exposition of the contextual circumstance, literary & philosophical styles, and political impact of the writers of the gospels, letters comprising the New Testament.

He also (Thomas Cahill) wrote an excellent book called 'The Gifts of the Jews - how a small tribe of desert nomads changed the way we all think & feel', which wonderfully sums up the path they forged in their own understanding of and relationship with God, and the way in which they were called to highlight an eternal plan of grace & mercy, despite their essentially beginning as somewhat roughshod, ill-disciplined wanderers, without much tact or spiritual sensitivity.


Did he say anything about the following?




Hellenistic philosophy and Christianity refers to the complex interaction between Hellenistic philosophy and early Christianity during the first four centuries AD.

The conflict between the two modes of thought is recorded in Paul's encounters with Epicurean and Stoic philosophers in Acts 17:18, his diatribe against Greek philosophy in 1Corinthians 1:18-31 and his warning against philosophy in Colossians 2:8. However, as Christianity spread throughout the Hellenic world, an increasing number of church leaders were educated in Greek philosophy. The dominant philosophical traditions of the Greco-Roman world at the time were Stoicism, Platonism, and Epicureanism. Stoicism and particularly Platonism were readily incorporated into Christian ethics and Christian theology.


en.wikipedia.org...

WOW! Everything I already knew, and all I did was actually read a lot of the texts and not what people said about them. Imagine that.




One early Christian writer of the 2nd and early 3rd century, Clement of Alexandria, demonstrated Greek thought in writing,

"Philosophy has been given to the Greeks as their own kind of Covenant, their foundation for the philosophy of Christ ... the philosophy of the Greeks ... contains the basic elements of that genuine and perfect knowledge which is higher than human ... even upon those spiritual objects." (Miscellanies 6. 8)

The Church historian Eusebius suggested, essentially, that Greek philosophy had been supplied providentially as a preparation for the Gospel. Augustine of Hippo, who ultimately systematized Christian philosophy, wrote in the 4th and early 5th century,

But when I read those books of the Platonists I was taught by them to seek incorporeal truth, so I saw your 'invisible things, understood by the things that are made' (Confessions 7. 20).



Interesting...

I had a fascination with St. Augustine of Hippo because of his knowledge of numbers and applications of them... kinda sacred geometry and philosophy research. Had no idea he was that smart lol.



posted on Apr, 9 2013 @ 01:56 AM
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This show covers a few aspects and theories of the event.



posted on Apr, 9 2013 @ 02:11 AM
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reply to post by retirednature
 


Thanks for the post, its about time more truth come out.

I agree with you. I think Judas was Jesus closest disciple and he was instrumental in helping the master achieve his end goal. The other stories around Judas are a fabrication of the truth by some very sick individual.

Judas should also be the hero of the story.



posted on Apr, 9 2013 @ 03:07 AM
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So, I thought I'd take the time and actually read the darn thing...

Kinda at a lost for words. Read it!

www.nationalgeographic.com...

Copyright (c) 2006 by The National Geographic Society.
All rights reserved. No part of this translation may be reproduced or
transmitted in any form or by any means, electronic or mechanical,
including photocopying, without permission in writing from the National
Geographic Society.

Um.... well, I found it using google lol, not sure if this applies.

Lets just say there is for sure some number 13 symbolism in there, actually, it pretty much defines exactly what a lot of people already suspected. As well, there's an amazing description as to the numbers of angels, dominions, and such... It is by far the craziest read I've ever encountered thus far in reading biblical texts. Which you may take with a grain of salt because I don't travel too far off the main highway if you know what I mean.

I will say this though, it does not mirror any other book of the bible. Although a lot was missing, the language itself is completely different. It could be the translation though.

Something about becoming the thirteenth, being cursed by other generations, coming to rule over them, the last days and people cursing his ascent to heaven(in this case, the holy generation). It will all make sense if you read it.

Umm.... 13, anybody heard it referenced on this site in regards to hidden agenda esoteric groups?

Like the 13 stars on the back of a dollar bill, the words 'in god we trust'.... the egyptian origin of this gospel and the pyramid on the bill... I swear there's a conspiracy in there, along with the discrediting of this particular gospel, and Judas himself!

I think I found my brand new favorite conspiracy lol.



posted on Apr, 9 2013 @ 03:35 AM
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reply to post by retirednature
 


Some say that Mary Magdalene was the 13th apostle. That would fit a piece of the puzzle in regards to that number and the gospel.

The number 13, particularly friday 13th came about as a superstition or bad number (13) because that was the day when the Knights Templar were massacred.



posted on Apr, 9 2013 @ 03:48 AM
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reply to post by kimish
 





Something about becoming the thirteenth, being cursed by other generations, coming to rule over them, the last days and people cursing his ascent to heaven(in this case, the holy generation). It will all make sense if you read it.


Maybe I should elaborate:




13 is also a mystical and magical number in mythology, the occult, mysteries and ancient history.

There are 12 Knights of the Round Table as well as King Arthur himself.
(12 + 1 = 13)

Arthurian Myth - Lady of the Lake has 13 letters.

During the quest for the Holy Grail, a damsel offers Bors (Knight of King Arthur) her love, which he refuses. Because of this the damsel along with 12 other women (1 + 12 = 13) threaten to throw themselves from a tower. As they fall from the tower Bors thinks they had better lose their souls than his so he crosses himself and all vanish due to it being a deceit of the Devil.

Arthurian Grail Legends
Conte Del Graal = 13 letters
Didot Perceval = 13 letters

Merlin was said to have been captured by Nimue disguised as a hare. The legend says he now guards the 13 Treasures of Britain and awaits rebirth. At Alderley Edge in Cheshire, Merlin is said to be underground with 13 Knights waiting for England’s hour of need.

The 13th Tarot card is Death.

The 13th Rune is Eiwaz. This rune is the balance point between light and dark.

There are said to be 13 Crystal Skulls.

In Norse mythology, an honorary banquet was held in Valhalla for Baldur with 12 Norse Gods. Loki arrives but is an uninvited guest. He is the 13th guest.

In Norse mythology 13 is a symbol of the Goddess Freya and her day is Friday.

On Friday 13th October 1307 the Knights Templar were arrested by order of the King of France Philippe IV.

Jacques de Molay the last Grand Master of the Knights Templar was burned to death on Friday 13th March 1314.

13 is a very unique and special number to the Illuminati. There main numbers are 3, 7, 9, 11, 13, 33

The 13th Degree in Freemasonry is called the Royal Arch.

13 is the most correct number for Freemasons.

New World Order = 13 letters

There are said to be 13 Illuminati families, these are:
Astor
Bundy
Collins
Dupont
Freeman
Kennedy
Li
Onassis
Reynolds
Rockefeller
Rothschild
Russell
Van Duyn

In Ancient China the meaning of the number 13 was Completion and Perfection.

In Numerology the Western Astrological Series of numbers 13 means New Beginnings.

In some occult circles the days of the week are ruled by 13 angels:
Monday – Gabriel
Tuesday – Zamael and Khamael
Wednesday – Michael and Raphael
Thursday – Tzaphiel and Sachiel
Friday – Anael and Haniel
Saturday – Tzaphiel and Cassiel
Sunday – Michael and Raphael

The 13th Hexagram of the I-Ching is T’ung Jen – Fellowship with men.

There are 13 notches on the horn carried by the Venus of Laussel.

The secretive Sisters of the Divine Goddess use this number as their emblem. They are the followers of the 13th Fae of Annwn. Their leaders are the Thirteenth Sage and the Thirteenth Goddess or Lady Fae of the Lake.

In ancient mythology the number 13 represents the Great Mother Goddess.

In Classical Antiquity the 13th member of a group was considered to be a leader.

13 is an emblem for Sacred and Secret Knowledge.

An Old English Superstition says that if 13 people meet in a room one of them will die within the year.

An old saying states that if you have 13 letters in your name you will have the Devil’s luck.
(People with 13 letters in their name)

In England the day of 24 hours used to be divided into 13 parts:

After-Midnight
Cock-Crow
Between the first Cock-Crow and Daybreak
Dawn
Morning
Noon
Afternoon
Sunset
Twilight
Evening
Candle-Time
Bed-Time
Dead of Night

The Battle of Hastings in England was in 1066 (1 + 0 + 6 + 6 = 13)

Old English death portent – A clock striking 13 is an omen of death.

In Old England farmers wives would always set 13 eggs under a hen for incubation, considering it unlucky to provide the hen with an even number.

In Herefordshire and Monmouthshire the Wassailing Ceremony was applied to farm crops and livestock. During this ceremony the farmer and his men would make a ring of 12 small bonfires around 1 large bonfire. (12 + 1 = 13)

Gerald Gardner believed 13 was the ideal number for a coven. This was made up of six perfect couples of men and women, plus a leader.

Gerald B. Gardner was born on Friday 13th June 1884.

13 Witches were executed at Salem during the Witch Trials in 1692.

Witchcraft - Book of Shadows = 13 letters.

A Witches Coven traditionally numbers 13.

The Council of American Witches has 13 Principles of Wiccan belief.

13 was the original number of covens that formed COG (Covenant of the Goddess) in 1975.

13 was the number of pages of a brief written on Witchcraft by the American law firm Nixon, Mudge, Rose, Guthrie and Alexander of New York City in the 1960's.

etc....



posted on Apr, 9 2013 @ 03:50 AM
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reply to post by retirednature
 


www.orrar.net...

Link for above information, just something random I found online that reiterates my point.

Anyways... I'm just sayin', maybe just maybe there are some STRONG parallels between what is said in the Gospel of Judas, the number 13, and certain groups using this number purposely as to relate somehow to this.



posted on Apr, 9 2013 @ 03:55 AM
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retirednature

Greetings. As your link explains, the manuscript is authenticated to the Third Century, and "authetnication" means that there is physical evidence that the document in question wasn't made recently. It is an ancient document, but whether what is written on the document copies something from the First Century is not established.

The chief question remains whether what the document says is true. There is no doubt that it is the scripture of a religion with Jesus in it. So is the Koran, so is the Book of Mormon. But we see these as the scriptures of different religions from orthodox Christianity, because they teach incompatible things. Maybe Mohammed really is right, or maybe Joseph Smith is right, but that has nothing to do, either way, with their absence from the scripture of a different religion.

I wouldn't be in the least surprised that Jesus understood that there are some missions from which the personnel don't return. And, as it happens, he does return from this mission anyway, but first he gets killed.

Jesus need hardly have orchestrated a betrayal. By and large, the male disciples weren't stand-up guys until at least after the crucifixion. If Jesus "needed" a betrayal scene, then Peter alone gave him a build of three that has become a staple of world literature. The crucifixion scene, with at most one male disciple present, also speaks for itself.

Judas is portrayed in Matthew as doing his part for a Biblically significant sum, in Acts for an unspecified gain, but also enough to purchase some land. I find this suspect, since none of the other disciples is shown being intimate with Judas at the time, for them to have a chat with Judas about where his money comes from. I think we are getting rumors about Judas' motives, from men who have every reason to be ashamed of their own role in the affair.

John, while it has no use for Judas and calls him a thief as well as a betrayer, nevertheless gives a clear personal reason for Judas' decision. Jesus and Judas have an argument about Mary of Bethany annointing Jesus with expensive oil. Jesus' side of the argument is conspicuously weak (unless, of course, the reader is "on Jesus' side," in which case it is brilliant). John's Judas is also possessed by Satan at the crucial moment, for good measure.

For the record, Judas betrays Jesus to the Temple authorities. It is the Temple authorities who hand him over to the Romans for execution, without consulting Judas, and in a separate action after the arrest. Judas "betrays" Jesus by cooperating with authorities to bring Jesus to trial. Judas cannot possibly know whether Jesus will be convicted. All the Gospels show Jesus talking his way out of capital-punishment-bearing tight spots, and John has Jesus eluding stonings.

Of course, the trial is rigged because the Temple authorities are corrupt, like the scribes and Pharisees, and anybody who holds different opinions from Jesus is corrupt. Uh, huh. That's not Judas' problem, though, is it? It is the corruption that gets Jesus killed, not his being arrested.

What is Judas' problem is that nobody respects a snitch, especially not people with their own reason to be ashamed of their role in a cluster-hug. It is those people, not Judas, who will be the orthodox-Gospel writers' sources. But there's nothing in the early records to suggest collusion between Judas and Jesus, nor anything that needed Jesus to stage manage its finer details, not even in theories where Jesus' grisly execution is simply part of the plan from the outset.



posted on Apr, 9 2013 @ 04:16 AM
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reply to post by eight bits
 


Let me ask you this, does everything go happen if Judas doesn't betray him?

I'd have to say the obvious reason is no.

The impression given by the Gospel of Judas, implies that it wasn't only necessary but manifest... it was his star, it was time for this to come into fruition for there's a very astrological/cosmological aspect to the story, suggesting that all was inevitable and warranted. At least, that's what I took away from it.



posted on Apr, 9 2013 @ 06:13 AM
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I would be ungrateful if I didn't thank all of you for the explanations you provided. I understand the point a little more clearly now. I'm not sure if I agree with the conclusions reached, but I have learned.

(Just a quick, stray thought. How did Judas die?)



posted on Apr, 9 2013 @ 06:28 AM
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Sometimes I wonder if the truest function of exoteric orthodoxy is to serve mystics by uniting them with the Beloved... like a flame unites the moth.


Should Love's heart rejoice unless I burn?
For my heart is Love's dwelling.
If You will burn Your house, burn it, Love!

Who will say, 'It's not allowed'?
Burn this house thoroughly!
The lover's house improves with fire.

From now on I will make burning my aim,
From now on I will make burning my aim,
for I am like the candle: burning only makes me brighter.

Abandon sleep tonight; traverse fro one night
the region of the sleepless.
Look upon these lovers who have become distraught

and like moths have died in union with the One Beloved.

Look upon this ship of God's creatures
and see how it is sunk in Love.


-Rumi

edit on 9-4-2013 by BlueMule because: (no reason given)



posted on Apr, 9 2013 @ 06:32 AM
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retirednature


Let me ask you this, does everything go happen if Judas doesn't betray him?


Jesus himself reminds his captors (and us) that they could have taken him in the marketplace any time they wanted to, in broad daylight. Now, John suggests that that is easier said than done, because Jesus was fast on his feet. And arresting anybody who's drawn a crowd is trickier than picking them up somewhere else, later on, when fewer people are around.

Still, Judas didn't nail the guy to the cross, and if Jesus was looking for it, then he didn't need Judas to arrange it for him. Jesus could have walked into the Temple and turned himself in. How Jesus came to be in custody is irrelevant to what happened once Jesus was in custody.


charles


Just a quick, stray thought. How did Judas die?


Take your pick:

Matthew: possibly by hanging (the Greek word isn't necessarily specific), apparently dead before Jesus died (although that isn't clear, just the order in which events are told)

Acts: in an agricultural misadventure (possibly accidental, time unclear, but not long after Jesus died)

Attributed to Papias: pedestrian fatality of a wheeled vehicle accident, much later

There may be other stories, too.





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