Help ATS with a contribution via PayPal:
learn more

N. Korean satellite orbits over U.S.

page: 13
42
<< 10  11  12    14 >>

log in

join

posted on Apr, 11 2013 @ 12:21 PM
link   

Originally posted by bbracken677
The EMP from a nuclear explosion 300 miles above the earth would not do much. During the nuclear testing the US and USSR did back in the 60s (maybe 70s?) they noticed some small EMP effects but nothing significant.

In order for a nuke to generate the effects we fear they have to be considerably lower...inside the atmosphere and the magnetosphere.


July 9, 1962 - Operation Fishbowl: USA detonates "Starfish Prime" at 400km (250 miles) above the ground, the yield of the weapon was very low, about 1.4 megatons. Seems pretty small, but in comparison to bombs dropped in Hiroshima and Nagasaki, this is about 50 to 500 times as strong.

The EMP effect from Starfish Prime was almost immeasurable because it maxed out all the instrumentation being used on it. The effects of the EMP *pay attention to this*, were felt nearly 898 miles away in Hawaii with downed telephone lines, streetlights blown out and burglar/car alarms set off.

Idk how you can discount the idea that North Korea could have even the smallest device on that satellite, if used correctly it could do a hell lot of damage. Physicists have testified before Congress in National Hearings before that anything below a 10 kiloton yield could produce a massive electromagnetic pulse. It isn't about weight or explosion, it's about gamma rays and altitude.
edit on 11-4-2013 by Plan2exist18 because: (no reason given)




posted on Apr, 11 2013 @ 12:26 PM
link   
reply to post by Plan2exist18
 



Idk how you can discount the idea that North Korea could have even the smallest device on that satellite


Either way, it's a dead satellite that has never received or transmitted a signal, and is tumbling end over end, from numerous astronomers, in numerous nations. Can we completely discount it? No...but it's a pretty safe bet. And of course, this would assume Un is suicidal. For surely, the detonation of such a device over the US would mean any gloves would be off, and we'd be free to do whatever we like in NK, while the international community cheered us on.

Excellent report on the effects here though...

www.empcommission.org...

I've only read the abstract and some excerpts, but compelling
edit on 11-4-2013 by Gazrok because: (no reason given)



posted on Apr, 11 2013 @ 12:31 PM
link   

Originally posted by Gazrok
reply to post by Plan2exist18
 



Idk how you can discount the idea that North Korea could have even the smallest device on that satellite


Either way, it's a dead satellite that has never received or transmitted a signal, and is tumbling end over end, from numerous astronomers, in numerous nations. Can we completely discount it? No...but it's a pretty safe bet. And of course, this would assume Un is suicidal. For surely, the detonation of such a device over the US would mean any gloves would be off, and we'd be free to do whatever we like in NK, while the international community cheered us on.


I would be much more concerned that something was sent in a shipping container years agoand trucked to a wilderness area, ranch or such to be stored. The shipping has been vulnerable from SoK forever and the ports here are owned by China and others who could help even if it were not already easy to get things through.



posted on Apr, 11 2013 @ 01:05 PM
link   

Originally posted by Gazrok

For surely, the detonation of such a device over the US would mean any gloves would be off, and we'd be free to do whatever we like in NK, while the international community cheered us on.



The detonation of such a device would possibly mean we would be unable to do whatever we like to North Korea...that's the point of an EMP.

Kim Jung Un is reckless, but I don't think he is idiotic, nor do I think the military puppet masters surrounding him are unaware that war with the US would result in their vaporization. They know any attack would have to be covert, calculated and crafty, thus why we need to not overlook any details.

You say the satellite is dead (so does the trustworthy New York Times)... IMO if there is something glaringly off about what an enemy is doing, you can't ignore it. They have no need for a comm satellite, and they have been starving their country for decades to obtain the technology to what? Send a tumbling piece of junk into orbit? (Ignore their perpetual war with the South).

A story leaked not too long ago about someone who picked up an abnormally long digital burst from a North Korean propaganda radio station not too long after their submarines went missing. This burst (which sounds to me like a distress radiobeacon) could be to those submarines...or just strong enough to reach that "orbiting junk" up there, like 40 MHz bursts do all the time.

I could be totally wrong, but most skeptical people on this thread in particular just don't want to look back and say "how could we have missed that?" One hand is feeding us while the other hand is cooking, perhaps.
edit on 11-4-2013 by Plan2exist18 because: (no reason given)



posted on Apr, 11 2013 @ 01:20 PM
link   
reply to post by Plan2exist18
 




The detonation of such a device would possibly mean we would be unable to do whatever we like to North Korea...that's the point of an EMP.


How would this affect our C&C in Korea? It wouldn't. Even in the US, our entire nuclear strategy is based on the ability to launch a massive retaliation AFTER being hit with numerous nukes. (EMP and all). It will have no effect on the silos or the subs' abilities to launch. Our civilian infrastructure would be toast, and a lot of military equipment down temporarily, but a lot more will be functional and C&C will still be running through various means and redundant and hardened systems. We've been prepping for this since the beginning of the Cold War.



posted on Apr, 11 2013 @ 02:25 PM
link   
reply to post by LastStarfighter
 


The satellite is passing over the US almost daily.
If there is a weapon, the threat is not gone.

Do you really think North Korea would launch a weather satellite?
Their entire focus is military, even at the expense of feeding their own people.



posted on Apr, 11 2013 @ 03:39 PM
link   

Originally posted by BlueAjah
reply to post by LastStarfighter
 


The satellite is passing over the US almost daily.
If there is a weapon, the threat is not gone.

Do you really think North Korea would launch a weather satellite?
Their entire focus is military, even at the expense of feeding their own people.


the satellite passes over everywhere daily. It passes over antartica daily, over africa daily, over the uk daily.

At best its a surveilance satellite, but id guess its a comms satellite



posted on Apr, 11 2013 @ 03:44 PM
link   
This article says that Obama's top security official acknowledges that NK has miniaturized its nuclear warheads.

And Doctor Pry, who is being dismissed as unreliable source, is a former CIA nuclear weapons analyst.

North Korea Tests 'Super-EMP' Nuke



Gary Samore, a top Obama administration national security official, warned of new sanctions if North Korea conducted a third round of nuclear tests on Monday, as reports surfaced that North Korea has miniaturized its nuclear warheads so they can be delivered by ballistic missile.

North Korea’s last round of tests, conducted in May 2009, appear to have included a “super-EMP” weapon, capable of emitting enough gamma rays to disable the electric power grid across most of the lower 48 states, says Dr. Peter Vincent Pry, a former CIA nuclear weapons analyst and president of EMPact America, a citizens lobbying group.



And South Korean defense minister also says that NK has miniaturized nuclear weapons.



South Korean defense minister, Kim Kwan-jin, told his country’s parliament on Monday that North Korea had succeeded in miniaturizing its nuclear weapons design, allowing them to place a nuclear warhead on a ballistic missile.

His analysis coincided with Congressional testimony in March by Lt. Gen. Ronald L. Burgess, director of the Defense Intelligence Agency, who stated that North Korea “may now have several plutonium-based warheads that it can deliver by ballistic missiles.”


And we should not easily dismiss Iran, who has pledged to support NK:

North Korea’s main partner in its nuclear weapons and ballistic missile programs is Iran. Dr. William Graham, chairman of the Commission to Assess the Threat to the United States from Electromagnetic Pulse (EMP) Attack, warned Congress three years ago that Iran had conducted missile launches in an EMP mode, detonating them high in the atmosphere.

edit on 4/11/13 by BlueAjah because: (no reason given)



posted on Apr, 11 2013 @ 04:17 PM
link   

Originally posted by BlueAjah
reply to post by Bedlam
 


The orbit does not have to decay, and you don't have to have navigational control of a satellite to set off an EMP.
An EMP blast a few hundred miles above the earth is what will do the most damage.
They just have to be able to trigger something inside of the satellite when it is drifting over a target.


Perhaps you would like to reread the post you're replying to.

Penninja said we should examine it when the orbit decays. It's not going to any time soon.

You DO need power output to cause an EMP, because the total EMP production of any nuke is dependent on a number of factors, but the largest one is the size of the nuke. And, no, you can't cause a huge EMP with a small weapon. 6kT isn't going to cut it.



posted on Apr, 11 2013 @ 04:20 PM
link   
reply to post by Bedlam
 


Ah yes, I did not look closely enough at the post that the poster was replying to.
That is a good point that we would know when the satellite comes down.
But as mentioned, that would be a long time, and there are good odds that it could fall into the ocean.



posted on Apr, 11 2013 @ 04:24 PM
link   

Originally posted by Plan2exist18

July 9, 1962 - Operation Fishbowl: USA detonates "Starfish Prime" at 400km (250 miles) above the ground, the yield of the weapon was very low, about 1.4 megatons. Seems pretty small, but in comparison to bombs dropped in Hiroshima and Nagasaki, this is about 50 to 500 times as strong.


1.4 megatons. And all you got were some damaged telephones. Not so much the lines, it burned out a half-dozen hybrids in telephone sets. It blew a couple of starter ballasts in streetlights. That's hardly sweeping destruction. You'll have noted it did not take out distribution lines, which is where you'd expect to get the biggest hit.



The effects of the EMP *pay attention to this*, were felt nearly 898 miles away in Hawaii with downed telephone lines, streetlights blown out and burglar/car alarms set off.


Yes, a 1.4MT weapon and that's all you got.



Idk how you can discount the idea that North Korea could have even the smallest device on that satellite, if used correctly it could do a hell lot of damage. Physicists have testified before Congress in National Hearings before that anything below a 10 kiloton yield could produce a massive electromagnetic pulse. It isn't about weight or explosion, it's about gamma rays and altitude.


It would have to be the smallest device. Our smallest 1.4MT class device wouldn't come close to fitting in that satellite, and it's WAY more advanced than anything NK has.

Optimizing for gamma production is also not that straightforward. NK hasn't produced more than a fizzle yield yet.



posted on Apr, 11 2013 @ 04:33 PM
link   

Originally posted by BlueAjah
This article says that Obama's top security official acknowledges that NK has miniaturized its nuclear warheads.

And Doctor Pry, who is being dismissed as unreliable source, is a former CIA nuclear weapons analyst.

North Korea Tests 'Super-EMP' Nuke



Gary Samore, a top Obama administration national security official, warned of new sanctions if North Korea conducted a third round of nuclear tests on Monday, as reports surfaced that North Korea has miniaturized its nuclear warheads so they can be delivered by ballistic missile.

North Korea’s last round of tests, conducted in May 2009, appear to have included a “super-EMP” weapon, capable of emitting enough gamma rays to disable the electric power grid across most of the lower 48 states, says Dr. Peter Vincent Pry, a former CIA nuclear weapons analyst and president of EMPact America, a citizens lobbying group.




Ok, let's stop and analyze that a bit more deeply. One - "former" is the operative word here. Two, there was no indication that the 2009 test was anything but a worse fizzle than the first one - it was only 2.4kT. If it WAS a "super EMP" weapon, there would be no way to tell that externally since it would not generate much of an EMP in an underground burst, and any EMP it DID generate would be absorbed by the rock and earth overburden. Also, the gamma ray output would have been absorbed to the point you could not tell if it was enhanced or not. So where is Pry getting his info for this? answer: he's pulling it out of his butt. If he had gotten this sort of info from the CIA, he would be making large rocks into small ones for revealing very tightly held espionage data.

But what do we know? He's a lobbyist whose function in life is to promote this viewpoint ("EMPact America"). And he's writing books on the subject that he's making bucks off of. So I give him all the credence I'd give to PETA or the Tobacco Research Council.



And South Korean defense minister also says that NK has miniaturized nuclear weapons.



South Korean defense minister, Kim Kwan-jin, told his country’s parliament on Monday that North Korea had succeeded in miniaturizing its nuclear weapons design, allowing them to place a nuclear warhead on a ballistic missile.

His analysis coincided with Congressional testimony in March by Lt. Gen. Ronald L. Burgess, director of the Defense Intelligence Agency, who stated that North Korea “may now have several plutonium-based warheads that it can deliver by ballistic missiles.”



They're saying that they think NK may have reduced the size to the point you could actually mount one on the missile bus. Not that they are technically advanced, more like they are no longer the size of a car in order to get that 6kT yield they seem to be stuck at.




And we should not easily dismiss Iran, who has pledged to support NK:

North Korea’s main partner in its nuclear weapons and ballistic missile programs is Iran. Dr. William Graham, chairman of the Commission to Assess the Threat to the United States from Electromagnetic Pulse (EMP) Attack, warned Congress three years ago that Iran had conducted missile launches in an EMP mode, detonating them high in the atmosphere.


No one's detonated any nukes 'high in the atmosphere' lately.



posted on Apr, 11 2013 @ 09:06 PM
link   
reply to post by Bedlam
 


I wonder was that fizzle a Neutron Bomb instead of an Atom Bomb . If you are exploding them close to home the Neutron Bomb would be less likely to poison you and you could advance your position with out Radiation hazards .



posted on Apr, 11 2013 @ 09:51 PM
link   
I suspect their 6kt test was for a primary for a potential MT hydrogen based weapon. If not, it might have been for short range or even cannon use.



posted on Apr, 11 2013 @ 10:15 PM
link   

Originally posted by SimonPeter
reply to post by Bedlam
 


I wonder was that fizzle a Neutron Bomb instead of an Atom Bomb . If you are exploding them close to home the Neutron Bomb would be less likely to poison you and you could advance your position with out Radiation hazards .


You'd need a thermonuke to build a neutron bomb, these guys are still using solid initiators if the intel is correct. Nowhere close to a thermonuke. They can't get a big conventional yield yet.



posted on Apr, 11 2013 @ 10:16 PM
link   

Originally posted by Gazrok
reply to post by Plan2exist18
 



Idk how you can discount the idea that North Korea could have even the smallest device on that satellite


Either way, it's a dead satellite that has never received or transmitted a signal, and is tumbling end over end, from numerous astronomers, in numerous nations. Can we completely discount it? No...but it's a pretty safe bet. And of course, this would assume Un is suicidal. For surely, the detonation of such a device over the US would mean any gloves would be off, and we'd be free to do whatever we like in NK, while the international community cheered us on.

Excellent report on the effects here though...

www.empcommission.org...

I've only read the abstract and some excerpts, but compelling
edit on 11-4-2013 by Gazrok because: (no reason given)


The international community will not under any circumstances cheer you on...
We will all be sadly shaking our heads saying "here we go again" and holding onto the edge of our seats and praying for all the poor innocent people who will die on both sides.
This is just horrible.



posted on Apr, 11 2013 @ 10:17 PM
link   
reply to post by Atlantican
 


I suspect they're using crappy plutonium from their research reactor at yongbyon. So they're fizzling.

ETA: nope, it's not cleverly small, it's we can't figure it out small.
edit on 11-4-2013 by Bedlam because: (no reason given)



posted on Apr, 11 2013 @ 10:42 PM
link   
www.n2yo.com...

According to the real time data the satellite is falling at around 1 mile per minute heading towards the US, Is this normal? Will the altitude begin to increase at a certin point in its orbit?
edit on 11-4-2013 by cassiopeia because: (no reason given)
edit on 11-4-2013 by cassiopeia because: (no reason given)



posted on Apr, 11 2013 @ 11:02 PM
link   
reply to post by cassiopeia
 


All satellites "fall" during their orbit. If you look, the orbit is calculated with a perigee and apogee. The orbit generally stays around those two numbers, sometimes a little lower, sometimes a little higher.



posted on Apr, 11 2013 @ 11:04 PM
link   

Originally posted by cassiopeia
www.n2yo.com...

According to the real time data the satellite is falling at around 1 mile per minute heading towards the US, Is this normal? Will the altitude begin to increase at a certin point in its orbit?


Yes. The orbit isn't perfectly circular, so it will constantly rise and fall.





new topics

top topics



 
42
<< 10  11  12    14 >>

log in

join