Ancient Items That Shouldn't Exist (OOPARTs)

Great read! Your threads are always interesting!

reply to post by smyleegrl

Fantastic thread.

JEEZ!

120 flags for this thread?

lol.

Just watch this two min video, for 10 Unexplained Discoveries. WAY more interesting.

These are the types of things that make my mind wonder...
If our civilization where to reach it's peak tomorrow and suddenly collapse, how much of our knowledge would survive 10,000 or 50,000 years from now? If the next civilization that arose within that time frame had developed a new language, I can imagine that they would be speculating on the remnants of what they dug up from our lost civilization just like we do now. I think that knowledge can easily be lost in time. It is my personal belief that many civilizations have risen and fallen over several thousand perhaps even millions of years and I'm pretty sure that our civilization isn't the most advanced of them. While all we can do is guess and try to imagine how the ancient people did things and what kinds of tools and technology they had, some day tens of thousands of years from now a new civilization may be wondering that of us!

Originally posted by Gu1tarJohn


Care to elaborate as to why that is your opinion? Just saying... "It's false, and I have no need to explain why, just trust me..."

research beyond sites that are biased for all this fakery being true helps, logic, knowledge and understanding what a truly ancient artifact looks like might help.
if you are truly interested in archaeology instead of just interested in perpetuating false beliefs, anyone will pick up on one simple fact about objects found buried in the ground. they accumulate a layer of various substances and wear away.
i think it is pretty reasonable to reject a claim that a chunk of rock is a "map" when it doesn't represent any known area of the world, least of all the place it is claimed to be a map of. it isn't like a mountain range sprung up out of nowhere between the creation of that map and now, it's a very old mountain range.

sure that city wasn't built using marble but 800 years is not ancient by any stretch.. except maybe to an american, since we have nothing really older than 250 years or so. go ask people in greece if they think a city built 800 years ago is ancient, much less 250+.

i think it's only unreasonable to folks who want these kinds of things to be true, when the evidence points to everything in the OP being completely wrong.
of course it isn't her fault, liars lie to her as much as anyone else who ends up believing this stuff, she like so many others is a victim of con artists and snake oil salesman.

no doubt it's quite a business, i'd be jealous of the liars selling this stuff as truth, if i didn't have scruples.

Originally posted by CALGARIAN
JEEZ!

120 flags for this thread?

lol.

Just watch this two min video, for 10 Unexplained Discoveries. WAY more interesting.

]

You know, it's really unnecessary to ridicule a thread simply because you don't find it interesting. Why bother posting at all?

i think it's only unreasonable to folks who want these kinds of things to be true, when the evidence points to everything in the OP being completely wrong. of course it isn't her fault, liars lie to her as much as anyone else who ends up believing this stuff, she like so many others is a victim of con artists and snake oil salesman.

reply to post by demongoat


Not a victim....which is why I posted this stuff here. Those of you who are more knowledgeable in this field do a great job of clearing up my misconceptions and debunking the info in a forthright way.

This is why I love ATS. Good arguments and the chance to learn.

Originally posted by DevineWisdom
These are the types of things that make my mind wonder...
If our civilization where to reach it's peak tomorrow and suddenly collapse, how much of our knowledge would survive 10,000 or 50,000 years from now? If the next civilization that arose within that time frame had developed a new language, I can imagine that they would be speculating on the remnants of what they dug up from our lost civilization just like we do now. I think that knowledge can easily be lost in time. It is my personal belief that many civilizations have risen and fallen over several thousand perhaps even millions of years and I'm pretty sure that our civilization isn't the most advanced of them. While all we can do is guess and try to imagine how the ancient people did things and what kinds of tools and technology they had, some day tens of thousands of years from now a new civilization may be wondering that of us!

see the problem with this assumption is, we have found evidence of the level of technology of our ancestors going back thousands of years, hundreds of thousands of years and even millions.
we have found no sign of any evidence above a paleolithic level of tech, if we can find tech 50 thousand years into their future, no doubt another intelligent species would find remains of our tech 50 thousand years into ours.

how can you claim that? where is your evidence? there isn't any evidence that any civilizations existed that long ago, there have been societies but they were neolithic and paleolithic and we found them.

thing is, a civilization from 10 thousand years ago would still have remains, and would leave evidence of their way of life, there are areas in the middle east that have been occupied for longer than that, and we find remains.

if a new species rose up after we wipe ourselves out in 50 thousand years, they would find a lot of our remains, buildings,cars, plastics, depending on how long ago we die, newer tech that we develop.
this depends largely on how it was preserved, they wouldn't know what it is and just like us have to guess sometimes and hope they find something to explain it.
heck i bet we could if we wanted to, create a way to preserve a huge amount of information about ourselves, if we wanted to. what we know about our ancestors is a lot of time an accident, rather than intentional, we are the same way, we don't think about that far into the future.

I'm kind of mixed on the whole rise and fall of civilization theory to explain away some of the things that have been found. If human beings eradicated themselves today or were eradicated for the most part by some outside source there would still be some remnant left over from some of the things we have that allow us to do the things we do.

When I look at the size of some of the blocks in various ancient cities it would be impossible even with modern technology to get the same type of cut. Even with diamond saws there would be difficulty to get the same results, this isn't even considering the transportation.

I think it's very interesting but there is also so much bogus information out there as well. I think people desperately want to believe in something after common sense tells them the religion they grew up on probably isn't correct. In turn they look to any ridiculous story to grab onto. One thing to take into consideration is that ancient people may have built things throughout generations considering the lifespans were probably shorter, moving a giant rock might have took them a few hundred years.

Either way I wonder if with certain stones if the could have been created through melting. The rocks at that particular location were basalt which has a melting point comparable to iron if I'm not mistaken. Certainly would make more sense than a boat, even if the theory is wrong.

I really don't think those figurines are real, that's my opinion. It's like the Jesus story and how every source of the supposed existence happened well after the actual time frame of it all happening. In the end if an artifact hasn't been verified by several sources then it's in no way legitimate in my opinion. Plus why would the dinosaurs look like what we believe the dinosaurs to look in modern thinking? I doubt dinosaurs look exactly like what we imagine them to look like.

Originally posted by smyleegrl



Not a victim....which is why I posted this stuff here. Those of you who are more knowledgeable in this field do a great job of clearing up my misconceptions and debunking the info in a forthright way.

This is why I love ATS. Good arguments and the chance to learn.

no what i mean is you like us all are victims of people who feel lying is justified so they can get a pay check.
you are a victim of a self-perpetuating system of propaganda, we all are, it's called the media.

it's funny how they can give us two different sides to a story and pretend that one side is persecuting the other, when in fact they are both subject to the same masters, when they are also both wrong.
it's like a dog chasing it's own tail, thinking it's another dog.

who really has a stake in lying to us? scientists who can get their very careers destroyed if they lie? or con men who get no repercussions for it except a few people calling them liars and frauds? who they in turn can claim are hiding from the truth and thus strengthen their hold on the more credulous people out there?

it's a win,win for the people pushing this stuff, and a total loss for real scientists. as often as i see people claim scientists are lying to us, i want to ask those folks why scientists make extreme efforts to make it easy to find the evidence they have. if they were lying, why would they not hide everything? why do the people pushing claims like the ones you posted in the OP never seem to be able to support their claims? why does it turn out to be wrong 99% of the time? because unlike scientists, the conmen profit from telling us what we want to hear, just like the media.

OK.

Mahabharat war (as narrated in epic Mahabharat, written immediately after the war) occurred 5300 years before. Iron was used extensively in weapons of this time. Iron metallurgy has existed in India for millions of years.

Not only iron, the weapons of this time were fairly advanced. They had weapons similar to shoulder fired missiles of today, and weapons described as electric lightening and raining fire on the enemy which could be some sort of nuclear device.

This war was extremely destructive, probably causing a million deaths.

There was a great loss of knowledge after the war. The social impact of the war was massive, as it destroyed the institutions on which society was based. The schools (education system) decayed. The cohesion and structure of the society weakened. The central authority of the empire greatly weakened giving rise to smaller kingdoms that did not pay much attention to either education or technology.

Wars have caused great transformations in human society including loss of languages in which ancient books are written. The books are perishable too. Sometimes nobody is left to understand an old language and such books are simply destroyed. You must realize that most people of the world do not consider ancient artifacts valuable; I know for sure that no such attitude is there in India to protect antiquities. Old stuff is treated just like new - valued by usefulness.

Originally posted by LadyofGlass
I'm kind of mixed on the whole rise and fall of civilization theory to explain away some of the things that have been found. If human beings eradicated themselves today or were eradicated for the most part by some outside source there would still be some remnant left over from some of the things we have that allow us to do the things we do.

we find all kinds of evidence of our ancestors, even up to a million years ago, so yeah if a civilization was around even 20 thousand years ago we would find evidence.

When I look at the size of some of the blocks in various ancient cities it would be impossible even with modern technology to get the same type of cut. Even with diamond saws there would be difficulty to get the same results, this isn't even considering the transportation.

oh come on, this is just not true, please stop perpetuating a lie, people are lying to you about this.
we could easily build a pyramid if we wanted, bigger and better than any of the old ones, but what is the point?
what does building one prove? it's not only a waste of time but of effort and money, i bet if we calculate the cost of it, it would range into the billions.
you are moving the goal posts halfway through your statement! you say it would be impossible to do with modern tools, then saying it's impossible because we couldn't do it like them! make up your mind! either we do it like how we build or we do it like they did, thing is we don't know exactly how they did it so speculation on how they did it is a waste of time, it isn't impossible, just pointless.
on the other hand, we have industrial lasers and factories, if we take the dimensions of a block from any of the pyramids we could easily build it.
how you think it's "impossible" when our top crane lift record is 20 thousand tons is beyond me.
the romans could move 100 ton objects easy in 200 bce! it's not hard at all, it's only impossible because you want to believe it to be.

I think it's very interesting but there is also so much bogus information out there as well. I think people desperately want to believe in something after common sense tells them the religion they grew up on probably isn't correct. In turn they look to any ridiculous story to grab onto. One thing to take into consideration is that ancient people may have built things throughout generations considering the lifespans were probably shorter, moving a giant rock might have took them a few hundred years.

oh come on, do you realize how ironic that first part is? i'm honestly sorry but you shoot yourself in the foot with it.
it wouldn't take a few hundred years to move a rock no matter how big, as per the case of one the heaviest ever, the thunderstone, a 1800 ton rock they used as the base for a statue of catherine the great.
it took 9 months to move it, they used bronze ballbearings to move it, a rather odd way to move something in the 18th century but it worked fine.
if they used cranes or rolled it it might have taken a heck of a lot less time than that!

Either way I wonder if with certain stones if the could have been created through melting. The rocks at that particular location were basalt which has a melting point comparable to iron if I'm not mistaken. Certainly would make more sense than a boat, even if the theory is wrong.

thing is, no stone edifices show melting, and melting is pretty obvious even after thousands of years, and there are no large edifices that were cut out of the same ground they were stood on, so they have to have had them moved from the quarry.

I really don't think those figurines are real, that's my opinion. It's like the Jesus story and how every source of the supposed existence happened well after the actual time frame of it all happening. In the end if an artifact hasn't been verified by several sources then it's in no way legitimate in my opinion. Plus why would the dinosaurs look like what we believe the dinosaurs to look in modern thinking? I doubt dinosaurs look exactly like what we imagine them to look like.

i agree on this, other than to add that the figurines don't have the common signs of being ancient artifacts, no wear at all and they aren't broken in ways seen with real ancient artifacts, no pieces missing, broken in uniform ways with out wear.
also it seems they were planted with real artifacts, to make them look less fake.

Originally posted by DevineWisdom
These are the types of things that make my mind wonder...
If our civilization where to reach it's peak tomorrow and suddenly collapse, how much of our knowledge would survive 10,000 or 50,000 years from now? If the next civilization that arose within that time frame had developed a new language, I can imagine that they would be speculating on the remnants of what they dug up from our lost civilization just like we do now. I think that knowledge can easily be lost in time. It is my personal belief that many civilizations have risen and fallen over several thousand perhaps even millions of years and I'm pretty sure that our civilization isn't the most advanced of them. While all we can do is guess and try to imagine how the ancient people did things and what kinds of tools and technology they had, some day tens of thousands of years from now a new civilization may be wondering that of us!

If and when it happens I suspect it will all be misinterpreted, and given that all knowledge is interpreted ultimately it matters not but for the stories they happen to tell, of which are retold and reinterpreted with every age depending on what people want to hear. A digital society such as we are going toward if something were to happen a world wide catastrophe we would have less to leave behind in terms of data then our fore-bearers had, who left stone, and mortar and brick monuments. Theres were written in stone, while the bulk of ours are written in things much more flimsy things then that, books and computerized data storage's devices. And if your society would fall withing a few generations we would most likely spring up new languages as well, just take any state in the US and it would first go to different dialects, then from there as things go to more tribal for survival purposes it would go to completely different languages in the span of mere generations.

# you already have languages within languages, you uz know what I iz saying homez, that them mofos all wakked ez ova notin. And even if you don't consider Ebonics as a language, there are others like computer code and math, well at least some people consider math a language, and others consider it not very much. It all depends really, and even the English don't really speak English though they spoke it first and they think they do, They would be off course wrong, as it matters not who spoke or did it first but who did it last from a historical viewpoint, as the last is most likely to be remembered first, almost as clear it will be in peoples memories as the current tides of fancy. And so a few centuries from now for all you know people may think English was invented by Americans, and they would be right in a way as things are always invented and reinvented. Looking for clarification in history is like looking for a needle in a haystack sometimes, but most times its like looking for the things you want to find, when people read history they all have tunnelvision, and usually history is written by some sort of winners

Great post man! Abundant stars and flags. Really neat stuff to get you thinking. 32000 figurines! Why?

Thanks for sharing this. Very interesting thread. Like many ancient sights all we can do is speculate about their origins. Even those that claim to be experts are just guessing. The fact is anyone can formulate an opinion, but it does not mean it is the truth. The history books are full of interesting theories.

Our ancient past remains a mystery. Not only do archeologists and researchers find anomalies all over the world on a regular basis but even the obvious ones, such as the megalithic structures, are testamonies in themselves that our current understanding of the history of civilizations on Earth is at least incomplete.

The pyramids of Giza are great examples of this. Particularly the Great Pyramid, as we perceive social and technological evolution to be completely linear and that we are currently in the apex of human evolution, but there it is, a mystery in itself, with no sarcophaguses found inside, which rules out the tomb theory, the most accurately aligned structure to true North in the entire history of Mankind (as far as we know), having been the tallest building in the world for over 3,800 years until the late 19th century, with 4 square shafts running through it; making the construction of the pyramid even more difficult and not only 4-sided, but 8-sided as each of the 4 base sides slightly bulge inwards, which is only perceicable on the equionoxes.
Image how difficult the construction of this structure must have been, especially using copper chisels, stone hammers, vine ropes and wood, working with solid stone blocks ranging from 1-80 tons in weight.

Numbers speak for themselves. We would have major difficulties reconstructing the Great Pyramid today and we can assume that the ancient Egyptians didn't construct it, with all of these various anomalies only because it looked pretty.

Also, when it comes to ancient mythology; it is worth noting that every major, and most minor, ancient cultures refer to several similar, or the same, historical events such as flood accounts, serpents, gods and all had an intricate connection to the star constellations for some, definitely important reason.

In this day and age, as science, technology and our understanding of the Universe is constantly progressing; it is worth having an open mind to all possibilities.

excellent thread.. i thoroughly enjoyed it. i always love learning the mysteries we still cannot explain.

Originally posted by kobewan69
- it has been analysed in various laboratories from Romania, including the Scientific Platform from Magurele, the place that will hold the largest Laser in the world. What the reports find strange is the fact that it is a alloy of aluminium and stanium (a paradox) and most important the thick layer of oxidation on the piece, going towards the core of the examined piece and thus the estimation of it being ancient.

kobewan thanks very much. Please expound on why you would think stanium with aluminas to be a paradox. No pre-judgement here, just wanted to know why you thought this. There is a potential role for stannous chloride, and one for cassiterite, but neither is in the role of alloyant. I found at least 4 very different descriptions in the US 'data' (sic) as to the elemental makeup of the object - so we know at least 75% of these were apparently just made up for some reason; however, none had stannous-root compounds as a constituent. If you could find the actual science (patina taper function and degrees of freedom, for example) from the museum in which it is stored, on this object, that would be a wonderful thing. Thank you sir...

Originally posted by GargIndia

Iron metallurgy has existed in India for millions of years.

That is quite some claim. Not to be rude but what are you basing this claim on? Current knowledge shows hearths (fireplaces) go back between 1.5 million years (debatable with Archeology) to 700'000 years ago.

Bearing in mind that you can't have metallurgy without a fireplace of some description, where does "millions of years" come from?

Originally posted by Harte

Originally posted by KilgoreTrout
Wouldn't common-sense tell us that perhaps those that created the figurines may have seen fossilised dinosaurs?

That would make sense, except for the fact that these figures were created by the natives at the time and sold to the collector:

The Acámbaro figures were uncovered by a German immigrant and hardware merchant named Waldemar Julsrud. According to Dennis Swift, a young-Earth creationist and major proponent of the figures, Julsrud stumbled upon the figures while riding his horse and hired a local farmer to dig up the remaining figures, paying him for each figure he brought back. Eventually, the farmer and his assistants brought him over 32,000 figures which included representations of everything from the supposed dinosaurs to peoples from all over the world including Egyptians, Sumerians, and "bearded Caucasians".[1]

Wiki

A similar thing happened to "create" another set of so-called "OoPArts," the Ica stones.

Thank you for most ably demonstrating that I am far from a 'know-it-all'...I can just imagine the little cottage industry that that farmer had going once he heard that the guy would pay for every item brought to him, seemingly, no questions asked. Ker-ching! There is indeed one born every minute. Bless. It kind of brings to mind the theme tune for 'Only Fools and Horses'...

Stick a pony in me pocket, I'll fetch the suitcase from the van.
Cos if you want the best 'uns, but you don't ask questions,
Then brother, I'm your man. 'Cos where it all comes from is a mystery,
It's like the changin' of the seasons, and the tides of the sea.
But here's the one that's drivin' me beserk, Why do only fools and horses work?
La-la-la. La-lala-la. La-la-la. La-lala-la.

uk.answers.yahoo.com...

La-la-la...Indeed!