Pentagon Estimates 250,000 US Dead In A North Korean War

Originally posted by NavyDoc

Originally posted by crazyewok

Originally posted by TDawg61
250,000 my ass.How can anyone who saw how we outright dismantled Bagdad in minuits underestimate U.S.skill and hardware?Another anti-American fantasy.

O god another one

Do you guys forget vietnam?

North Korea is not Iraq, The terrain is complety diffrent and will be more like vietnam. Your great big bombs will not be a instant I WIN here

No I doubt it will not be 250,000 US dead (stupud figure). Most likey 25,000-50,0000 dead.

But please diffrent war diffrent place.

Its not Anti American just fact.

O and I am from the UK so as such we will mostly likely be going in too and at the front with you Americans like always. So I have no reason to laugh or gloat about allied deaths.

edit on 12-4-2013 by crazyewok because: (no reason given)

edit on 12-4-2013 by crazyewok because: (no reason given)

edit on 12-4-2013 by crazyewok because: (no reason given)

edit on 12-4-2013 by crazyewok because: (no reason given)

Uhh, Korea is not like Vietnam. It is a temperate zone and not a jungle. The trees and plants lose their leaves every fall just like in the Northern US and there is no triple canopy jungle to hide under. I take it you have never been there.

I know that my point is it is more like Vietnam than the open plains and deserts of Iraq,

Ok to put things better all 3 are completly diffrent terrains. But the terrain in North Korea is better suited to guerrialla and unorthadox tactics compared to Iraq.


Fact is we dont know what a war in North Korea will be like now as last time I checked one hasnt been fought in this sort of area before.

reply to post by crazyewok


Actually, NK is more like the North Eastern US than Vietnam.

I know. I lived in South Korea for 3 years.

There are no jungles there. There are no thick rain forests with thick canopy over them.

The terrain is a mixture of hilly areas and open areas. There are mountains to be sure.

Saying that it will be just like Vietnam all over again is just as short sighted to say we should nuke the hell out of them.

Here is why: Each time the US is in combat, we learn from it. Warfare today is not conducted like it was 40 years ago (Vietnam). Nor 60 years ago (Korea), nor 70 years ago (WW2). It's even changed from the first Persian Gulf War.

Some aspects would be the same (bombing with ordinance, missiles, etc, all designed to try and break up lines of communications, supplies, etc). Then we go looking, but not with boots on the ground.
That is where aircraft, satellite images and drones are used. Any bunker sites that can be located are then bombed with the newer type of bunker busters that have been mentioned in this thread.

Again, no boots on the ground other than what is already in SK.

This would be done within the first hours and days. After that would depend upon a LOT of things, such as China's reaction to it all. It could very well be that at that point, China knows they could move in with much more ease and not so much loss on their part too.

The political aspects here in the US would come to play too. Obama knows that our wars else where are not popular, and sending in ground troops into NK would more than likely be just as unpopular. After you've destroyed their ability to be a threat with long reaching arms, most Americans would be satisfied at that. Many US citizens would point out that it's a "Korean" problem. Let South Korea deal with boots on the ground.

So would it be easy to defang NK from having weapons strike abilities outside their borders? Yes. It would be pretty much a walk in the park without one US solder having to set foot in NK.

Would it be a walk in the park to send troops in? No. That is a different type of war.

And like you pointed out: Vietnam, Iraq, Afghanistan.........you are right. But you are also forgetting we learn from those. We may not have any reason to set foot there as long as the DMZ holds.

reply to post by eriktheawful



I concede to the point the jungles of vietam are alot diffrent to North Korea.

But they will still prove more of a challenge to the plains of Iraq.

As for tatics I do think they know how to play the guerria and asymetical warefare tactics and logitics.
Rember they have had 60 years sitting behind the DMZ. If there comanders have have half a brain cell then they will have prepared and built very deep and very hidden bunkers. Rember these guys are the one who built the viet congs tunnels that causes such a headache! And that was in a short time under fire with little resources!


If the USA just wants to take out there current Nuclear capabilitys then yes a air strike will do it as they are waveing them about in public at the moment. But the fact is alot of there stuff is hidden in bunkers where we can even find it let alone bomb it!

As for boots on the ground well to actually topple the reguime you will need a ground invasion and ok it most likely be south Korean troops doing the bulk of the fighting. Though does it matter if its a US soldier dead or South Korean or Japanese? A allied life is a allied life.


At the end of the day I dont think any of us can make a accurate prediction. Maybe Im wrong or we all are wrong we dont know as there is very little intel or at least intel known to the public.

Originally posted by crazyewok

Originally posted by TDawg61
250,000 my ass.How can anyone who saw how we outright dismantled Bagdad in minuits underestimate U.S.skill and hardware?Another anti-American fantasy.

O god another one

Do you guys forget vietnam?

North Korea is not Iraq, The terrain is complety diffrent and will be more like vietnam. Your great big bombs will not be a instant I WIN here

No I doubt it will not be 250,000 US dead (stupud figure). Most likey 25,000-50,0000 dead.

But please diffrent war diffrent place.

Its not Anti American just fact.

O and I am from the UK so as such we will mostly likely be going in too and at the front with you Americans like always. So I have no reason to laugh or gloat about allied deaths.

edit on 12-4-2013 by crazyewok because: (no reason given)

edit on 12-4-2013 by crazyewok because: (no reason given)

edit on 12-4-2013 by crazyewok because: (no reason given)

edit on 12-4-2013 by crazyewok because: (no reason given)

Vietnam,really?I believe all we have to do is knock Pyongyang out and the whole NK army with their antiquated weapons would fall apart.All the power is centered there.After its fall their army will be tripping over themselves to surrender.

Originally posted by crazyewok

Originally posted by NavyDoc

Originally posted by crazyewok

Originally posted by TDawg61
250,000 my ass.How can anyone who saw how we outright dismantled Bagdad in minuits underestimate U.S.skill and hardware?Another anti-American fantasy.

O god another one

Do you guys forget vietnam?

North Korea is not Iraq, The terrain is complety diffrent and will be more like vietnam. Your great big bombs will not be a instant I WIN here

No I doubt it will not be 250,000 US dead (stupud figure). Most likey 25,000-50,0000 dead.

But please diffrent war diffrent place.

Its not Anti American just fact.

O and I am from the UK so as such we will mostly likely be going in too and at the front with you Americans like always. So I have no reason to laugh or gloat about allied deaths.

edit on 12-4-2013 by crazyewok because: (no reason given)

edit on 12-4-2013 by crazyewok because: (no reason given)

edit on 12-4-2013 by crazyewok because: (no reason given)

edit on 12-4-2013 by crazyewok because: (no reason given)

Uhh, Korea is not like Vietnam. It is a temperate zone and not a jungle. The trees and plants lose their leaves every fall just like in the Northern US and there is no triple canopy jungle to hide under. I take it you have never been there.

I know that my point is it is more like Vietnam than the open plains and deserts of Iraq,

Ok to put things better all 3 are completly diffrent terrains. But the terrain in North Korea is better suited to guerrialla and unorthadox tactics compared to Iraq.


Fact is we dont know what a war in North Korea will be like now as last time I checked one hasnt been fought in this sort of area before.

What do you mean? In the original Korean war, we fought all through the penninsula from the south all of the way to the Chinese border in the north.

Armchair warmongers completely disgust me. They revert to doublespeak to defend their disgusting habits.

Warmongering should be a punishable offense, by law.

Originally posted by guymontag
Armchair warmongers completely disgust me. They revert to doublespeak to defend their disgusting habits.

Warmongering should be a punishable offense, by law.

Punishing people for thinking things or saying things is even more disgusting.

Has anyone entertained the idea that the Pentagon might want to inflate the numbers as high as they can
in order to justify a more "unconventional" plan?

I believe this has been used before....hmmmm....maybe the last time a nuke was used to "save greater loss of life"

Originally posted by Res Ipsa
Has anyone entertained the idea that the Pentagon might want to inflate the numbers as high as they can
in order to justify a more "unconventional" plan?

I believe this has been used before....hmmmm....maybe the last time a nuke was used to "save greater loss of life"

No. It is wise to plan for the worst. It is better to overestimate than underestimate your enemy.

250,000 US dead. I would be one of them. So would my wife and I suspect, 2 of my children, and probably my grand kids. I live VERY close to Denver, so most of us would get it. That's why they call it war. It,'s stupid, stupid, stupid, but yeah, I could see that. When a country decides to go to war (hopefully NEVER) those are the kinds of numbers you have to deal with, without the emotional baggage. I'm already a dead man, so what do I care? Hopefully, it will be quick and merciful, and if it's not, please forgive me if I administer a personal mercy. It's 2013.
Why haven't we figured it out yet? War = Bad, how hard is it? I am not going to cast any aspersions on my fellow citizens in uniform, they are just people, and 99.9% of them are people you meet every day, and just don't realize it. I will not cast aspersions on the people wearing the uniform of the DPRK. I KNOW they will fight, and fight to the death. I just hope that when and if my grandkids are surfing ATS when they're 53 yrs old, the people that are wearing 'uniforms' are folks that are sailing the stars, taking our fellow planetary citizens to some awesome new place to live. One we won't mess up, or at least do our very best not to. That's the only future possible for the Human race.. I know this. How? Because on Earth, as beautiful as it is, we're only tenants. The Universe owns the lease, and we don't want to be around when the renovations start !

Originally posted by TDawg61

Originally posted by crazyewok

Originally posted by TDawg61
250,000 my ass.How can anyone who saw how we outright dismantled Bagdad in minuits underestimate U.S.skill and hardware?Another anti-American fantasy.

O god another one

Do you guys forget vietnam?

North Korea is not Iraq, The terrain is complety diffrent and will be more like vietnam. Your great big bombs will not be a instant I WIN here

No I doubt it will not be 250,000 US dead (stupud figure). Most likey 25,000-50,0000 dead.

But please diffrent war diffrent place.

Its not Anti American just fact.

O and I am from the UK so as such we will mostly likely be going in too and at the front with you Americans like always. So I have no reason to laugh or gloat about allied deaths.

edit on 12-4-2013 by crazyewok because: (no reason given)

edit on 12-4-2013 by crazyewok because: (no reason given)

edit on 12-4-2013 by crazyewok because: (no reason given)

edit on 12-4-2013 by crazyewok because: (no reason given)

Vietnam,really?I believe all we have to do is knock Pyongyang out and the whole NK army with their antiquated weapons would fall apart.All the power is centered there.After its fall their army will be tripping over themselves to surrender.

How do you know? You beem to north korea lately? You work for the pentagon?

And to navydoc just cause it went like that first time around dont mean it will be a repeat. The north have haf 50 years to prepare. There could be a tunnel complex in every hill and a booby trap that could be a IED or chemical or biological weapon under every other stone. It what i would have done, booby trap the country.

Originally posted by crazyewok

Originally posted by TDawg61

Originally posted by crazyewok

Originally posted by TDawg61
250,000 my ass.How can anyone who saw how we outright dismantled Bagdad in minuits underestimate U.S.skill and hardware?Another anti-American fantasy.

O god another one

Do you guys forget vietnam?

North Korea is not Iraq, The terrain is complety diffrent and will be more like vietnam. Your great big bombs will not be a instant I WIN here

No I doubt it will not be 250,000 US dead (stupud figure). Most likey 25,000-50,0000 dead.

But please diffrent war diffrent place.

Its not Anti American just fact.

O and I am from the UK so as such we will mostly likely be going in too and at the front with you Americans like always. So I have no reason to laugh or gloat about allied deaths.

edit on 12-4-2013 by crazyewok because: (no reason given)

edit on 12-4-2013 by crazyewok because: (no reason given)

edit on 12-4-2013 by crazyewok because: (no reason given)

edit on 12-4-2013 by crazyewok because: (no reason given)

Vietnam,really?I believe all we have to do is knock Pyongyang out and the whole NK army with their antiquated weapons would fall apart.All the power is centered there.After its fall their army will be tripping over themselves to surrender.

How do you know? You beem to north korea lately? You work for the pentagon?

And to navydoc just cause it went like that first time around dont mean it will be a repeat. The north have haf 50 years to prepare. There could be a tunnel complex in every hill and a booby trap that could be a IED or chemical or biological weapon under every other stone. It what i would have done, booby trap the country.

You said it had never been done, when in fact it had been done. Don't yell at me because you haven't read your history. Yes, they have had 60 years (not 50--getting back to not reading your history) to prepare, but do has everyone else. Watch their videos. Even the best of them that they put on display is half starved, scrawny, with decades old Soviet tech. That is their BEST that they permit to be filmed. War after war after war demonstrates that, as Patton said, fortifications are an example of man's folly. The Maginot line failed. Bunkers are scary to the non-initiated, but they have failed as a defense since WWI.

Originally posted by NavyDoc

Originally posted by crazyewok

Originally posted by TDawg61

Originally posted by crazyewok

Originally posted by TDawg61
250,000 my ass.How can anyone who saw how we outright dismantled Bagdad in minuits underestimate U.S.skill and hardware?Another anti-American fantasy.

O god another one

Do you guys forget vietnam?

North Korea is not Iraq, The terrain is complety diffrent and will be more like vietnam. Your great big bombs will not be a instant I WIN here

No I doubt it will not be 250,000 US dead (stupud figure). Most likey 25,000-50,0000 dead.

But please diffrent war diffrent place.

Its not Anti American just fact.

O and I am from the UK so as such we will mostly likely be going in too and at the front with you Americans like always. So I have no reason to laugh or gloat about allied deaths.

edit on 12-4-2013 by crazyewok because: (no reason given)

edit on 12-4-2013 by crazyewok because: (no reason given)

edit on 12-4-2013 by crazyewok because: (no reason given)

edit on 12-4-2013 by crazyewok because: (no reason given)

Vietnam,really?I believe all we have to do is knock Pyongyang out and the whole NK army with their antiquated weapons would fall apart.All the power is centered there.After its fall their army will be tripping over themselves to surrender.

How do you know? You beem to north korea lately? You work for the pentagon?

And to navydoc just cause it went like that first time around dont mean it will be a repeat. The north have haf 50 years to prepare. There could be a tunnel complex in every hill and a booby trap that could be a IED or chemical or biological weapon under every other stone. It what i would have done, booby trap the country.

You said it had never been done, when in fact it had been done. Don't yell at me because you haven't read your history. Yes, they have had 60 years (not 50--getting back to not reading your history) to prepare, but do has everyone else. Watch their videos. Even the best of them that they put on display is half starved, scrawny, with decades old Soviet tech. That is their BEST that they permit to be filmed. War after war after war demonstrates that, as Patton said, fortifications are an example of man's folly. The Maginot line failed. Bunkers are scary to the non-initiated, but they have failed as a defense since WWI.

Im not yelling. And if if your beiing picky 61 years i was just rounding. Mmmm tunnels and booby traps were not so useless in vietnam? It all depend on there use. As for not done before I meant since 1960/70's .

Still none of us can be sure how it will play out.

Originally posted by crazyewok

Originally posted by NavyDoc

Originally posted by crazyewok

Originally posted by TDawg61

Originally posted by crazyewok

Originally posted by TDawg61
250,000 my ass.How can anyone who saw how we outright dismantled Bagdad in minuits underestimate U.S.skill and hardware?Another anti-American fantasy.

O god another one

Do you guys forget vietnam?

North Korea is not Iraq, The terrain is complety diffrent and will be more like vietnam. Your great big bombs will not be a instant I WIN here

No I doubt it will not be 250,000 US dead (stupud figure). Most likey 25,000-50,0000 dead.

But please diffrent war diffrent place.

Its not Anti American just fact.

O and I am from the UK so as such we will mostly likely be going in too and at the front with you Americans like always. So I have no reason to laugh or gloat about allied deaths.

edit on 12-4-2013 by crazyewok because: (no reason given)

edit on 12-4-2013 by crazyewok because: (no reason given)

edit on 12-4-2013 by crazyewok because: (no reason given)

edit on 12-4-2013 by crazyewok because: (no reason given)

Vietnam,really?I believe all we have to do is knock Pyongyang out and the whole NK army with their antiquated weapons would fall apart.All the power is centered there.After its fall their army will be tripping over themselves to surrender.

How do you know? You beem to north korea lately? You work for the pentagon?

And to navydoc just cause it went like that first time around dont mean it will be a repeat. The north have haf 50 years to prepare. There could be a tunnel complex in every hill and a booby trap that could be a IED or chemical or biological weapon under every other stone. It what i would have done, booby trap the country.

You said it had never been done, when in fact it had been done. Don't yell at me because you haven't read your history. Yes, they have had 60 years (not 50--getting back to not reading your history) to prepare, but do has everyone else. Watch their videos. Even the best of them that they put on display is half starved, scrawny, with decades old Soviet tech. That is their BEST that they permit to be filmed. War after war after war demonstrates that, as Patton said, fortifications are an example of man's folly. The Maginot line failed. Bunkers are scary to the non-initiated, but they have failed as a defense since WWI.

Im not yelling. And if if your beiing picky 61 years i was just rounding. Mmmm tunnels and booby traps were not so useless in vietnam? It all depend on there use. As for not done before I meant since 1960/70's .

Still none of us can be sure how it will play out.

No one has a crystal ball, but the Maginot line was almost as intricate and deep as the DMZ line. It failed utterly. They have thousands of ancient artillery pieces that will get off a salvo or two with deviating results, but each and every one of these has been catelogued and targeted. They will be silenced in short order. Then, isliate the country by destroying ports and bridges and roads. Then take apart the isolated bunkers one by one just like the Germans did the French.

Tunnels and booby traps did not win Vietnam for the Communists. After Tet, they were defeated militarily. They blew their wad with the Tet offensive and they lost. As usual, the war was lost on the home front and by politicians. Look at Okinawa, at Iwo Jima, at Saipan--bunkers just delay the inevitable against a determined foe.

Originally posted by Gazrok
reply to post by crazyewok

 

The bunker buster bombs would have very minimal worth against North Korea's hardened sites. Those sites were built based on Russian military designs and were designed to withstand nuclear bombs. All the bunker busters would do is cause damage above the ground. They would not do a thing to the actual underground facilities.

This is true of the standard "bunker busters" we used in Iraq...but against both Iran and NK, the new gen MOP (Massive Ordnance Penetrator) is a 30,000lb bomb that can penetrate 41m of rock (so just two to get to their most dug in bunkers). Guess how many a B-2 carries? That's right...2.

Of course, these were developed so we had a conventional option, instead of tactical nukes which would already reach suck targets. There's also the option of DU bunker busters, but I doubt we want the political fallout from them. (DU is denser, so more penetration power).

edit on 12-4-2013 by Gazrok because: (no reason given)

North Korea's important bunkers, most of their important tunnels, and all of their hardened sites, are built to withstand NUCLEAR hits. The MOP would not even put a scratch on such underground sites.

Originally posted by guymontag
Armchair warmongers completely disgust me. They revert to doublespeak to defend their disgusting habits.

Warmongering should be a punishable offense, by law.

Some people are obviously just natural born pure psychopaths.

Originally posted by Red Cloak

Originally posted by Gazrok
reply to post by crazyewok

 

The bunker buster bombs would have very minimal worth against North Korea's hardened sites. Those sites were built based on Russian military designs and were designed to withstand nuclear bombs. All the bunker busters would do is cause damage above the ground. They would not do a thing to the actual underground facilities.

This is true of the standard "bunker busters" we used in Iraq...but against both Iran and NK, the new gen MOP (Massive Ordnance Penetrator) is a 30,000lb bomb that can penetrate 41m of rock (so just two to get to their most dug in bunkers). Guess how many a B-2 carries? That's right...2.

Of course, these were developed so we had a conventional option, instead of tactical nukes which would already reach suck targets. There's also the option of DU bunker busters, but I doubt we want the political fallout from them. (DU is denser, so more penetration power).

edit on 12-4-2013 by Gazrok because: (no reason given)

North Korea's important bunkers, most of their important tunnels, and all of their hardened sites, are built to withstand NUCLEAR hits. The MOP would not even put a scratch on such underground sites.

They are? Who says? The Norks? LOL. Sure, the elite may sit in a nuke proof bunker, but not everyone else. If the generals want to sit in a hole and wait for us to dig them out, let them. They'll pray that we get to them before the ROK troops do. I've worked with those guys, they will not be nice.

reply to post by Red Cloak


The World Trade Center Twin Towers were supposed to have been built to withstand a collision with a airliner.

You just never know until it's tested under fire.

Originally posted by NavyDoc



Look at Okinawa, at Iwo Jima, at Saipan--bunkers just delay the inevitable against a determined foe.

actually that is exactly my point. I dont think the usa will lose . But the bunkers and traps will delay things and kill and injure allot of people.

I think 6months to win 30,000 us dead and 100,000 south korean if the usa has a heavy infantry prescence or 2000 isa dead and double the number of korean dead if the usa keeps its foot soldiers out.

reply to post by NavyDoc

They'll pray that we get to them before the ROK troops do. I've worked with those guys, they will not be nice.

My nephew told me the same thing.
He said they are a hard bunch.

USA won't touch a hardened site in North Korea, short of using the biggest nukes it has. Claiming anything else is a complete fantasy and delusion. North Korea is by far the most hardened country in the world in terms of it's military infrastructure.

It has the same underground complexes like the USA has, it can wage war and run the government from them, like the USA can, but the difference is - it houses almost all of its equipment and ordinance in them. And this country has tremendous amounts of artillery, and a seemingly endless amount of highly trained, highly disciplined, and highly dedicated manpower to man it.

This is by far THE most militarized country in the world. Clearly, the vast majority of people making comments in this thread are completely ignorant about anything and everything related to North Korea. For 60 years, non-stop, they have been preparing for a nuclear war with the United States.

It's very obvious from the comments in this thread that most Americans are totally delusional on this situation, to the point of being borderline psychotic.