U.S. Army Instructor: Beware Religious Extremism of Evangelicals, Roman Catholics

reply to post by Jakes51


I get your point, Jakes.

I think the few extremists have created the reaction, more than the government trying to squelch the far-right. If a person behaves with hatred, threatens violence, condemns everyone who doesn't believe what they believe, is outspokenly bigoted, and willing to bomb or murder or pour acid down the necks of others for their cause - well, they need to be stopped.

Originally posted by wildtimes
reply to post by butcherguy

 

Well, you're online just like I am. Do a google or bing or whatever for "Christian violence."
Christian Terrorism is an example from wiki.
There are several wiki pages related to the topic, all with links to further info.

And this recent thread by NorEaster speaks to the subject exactly:Would Christians Be As Violent As Muslims If Their Religion Was Threatened?

Lots of links in that thread to help you understand it better.

Be glad you aren't witnessing it. Or suffering it. The Army isn't training soldiers to patrol my neighborhood, or yours! They need to be aware of where the volatile extremist thinking might turn ugly. There are Christians abroad, too, you know, in places like Israel and Egypt.

edit on 9-4-2013 by wildtimes because: (no reason given)

Well, I checked the first link, went to the United States section, and the freshest actual crime on that one was, 2009 (again).
The ATS thread is speculation.... I posted on page two of it, back when....

You are posting old stuff, telling me that I should be googling it myself, then you have another go at it, posting more old stuff.
Then you tell me that there are 'lots of links' in another thread (that I have already read) to 'help me understand it better'.

I am trying to help you understand it better. You are making a mountain out of a speck of dust. If you want to find violence, go check out the gangbanger crowd in a city near you. If you keep looking in churches, you won't find nearly as much.... I am being totally serious.

Yep, wont be long now before they try to get us Americans to worships Obama. I can even see them going as far as replacing "under god" with "under Obama" in the Pledge of Allegiance.

Originally posted by R_Clark

U.S. Army Instructor: Beware Religious Extremism of Evangelicals, Roman Catholics

www.breitbart.co m

A U.S. Army training instructor giving a training brief on "extremism" to an Army Reserve unit in Pennsylvania has labeled Evangelical Christianity and Roman Catholicism as examples of religious extremism right alongside Al Qaeda.

In addition to Al Qaeda, the instructor also equated Evangelical and Catholic "extremism" with that of Hamas, Sunni Muslims, the Nation of Islam, and the Ku Klux Klan.

When news of this leaked out, the Army was quick to say the instructor's position was not condoned by the U.S. military, and that the portions of the power-point slide show used to list Evan

(visit the link for the full news article)


Related News Links:
www.examiner.com

He's right!

If they aren't following scripture then they are in danger of becoming like David Koresh, Jim Jones, or Popes who have protected predators from justice.

Not one bit of difference between Christian fanaticism and fanaticism and zealotry in other religions.

Smartest general in the force.

Originally posted by neo96
reply to post by marg6043

 

Yeah well I don't see Catholics,or Evangelical's flying planes in to buildings, getting in to vehciles laden with explosives, or go around beheading people these days.

See Al queda doing all those things.

for one - we have ZERO proof wtc was muslims
the evidence we do know suggests the contrary

70 millions of christians killed each other in wwII
so some bankers could get rich
just to name ONE instance of christian violence

what did the christians do in IRAQ...who had nothing to do with 911
and no wmds to boot?

al CIA duh has a long way to go to catch up
as long as they never have to look in the mirror they just might...
in a million years

actually it looks like christians (the Bush regime, nato) and jews ( remember the dancing israelis?) did 911 to blame it on muslims

reply to post by butcherguy

I am trying to help you understand it better. You are making a mountain out of a speck of dust. If you want to find violence, go check out the gangbanger crowd in a city near you. If you keep looking in churches, you won't find nearly as much.... I am being totally serious.

My friend, it is not "a speck of dust."

I have worked in the urban core and among the 'fugitives'; I've talked for hours upon hours with kids/young adults/adults who have told me their stories.

At this moment, the house next to mine is occupied by a paroled offender. I'm not ignorant of gang-land thought processes. Far, far from it. You have no idea how much I have heard from kids who live this - what I've seen first-hand, what I've heard from participants.

Again, I know what I'm talking about. You all don't have to believe me, but I'm telling you anyway. I've been on the inside, I've helped others on the inside 'of gang-land"; I've had kids aged 11 and even younger talk to me about how their cousin or brother or best friend got gunned down in broad daylight....and there are SO MANY stories I could tell you.

Ignore it if you will, but it is what it is.

Originally posted by wildtimes
reply to post by butcherguy

 

I am trying to help you understand it better. You are making a mountain out of a speck of dust. If you want to find violence, go check out the gangbanger crowd in a city near you. If you keep looking in churches, you won't find nearly as much.... I am being totally serious.

My friend, it is not "a speck of dust."

I have worked in the urban core and among the 'fugitives'; I've talked for hours upon hours with kids/young adults/adults who have told me their stories.

At this moment, the house next to mine is occupied by a paroled offender. I'm not ignorant of gang-land thought processes. Far, far from it. You have no idea how much I have heard from kids who live this - what I've seen first-hand, what I've heard from participants.

Again, I know what I'm talking about. You all don't have to believe me, but I'm telling you anyway. I've been on the inside, I've helped others on the inside 'of gang-land"; I've had kids aged 11 and even younger talk to me about how their cousin or brother or best friend got gunned down in broad daylight....and there are SO MANY stories I could tell you.

Ignore it if you will, but it is what it is.

edit on 9-4-2013 by wildtimes because: (no reason given)

YooHoo, Hello!

I get the gangland, stuff!

It is you making a mountain out of the true speck of dust that is 'The Militant Christian Threat'.

I am glad that you are aware of the actual issue of gang violence. Now, if we could convince you that the SPLC is making up stuff to keep themselves in existence, we would be making some real headway. See, if you look at the actual stats, the SPLC is pushing a fantasy that doesn't exist, and totally ignoring a huge threat to young urban youths......THE YOUTHS THEMSELVES! Drugs, shootings, stabbings and beatings... done to each other, and not against different ethnic groups, but against members of their own ethnic groups.

But the SPLC was born from the days of the KLAN, and they would have you believe that they are a huge problem still. The fact is that most Americans are not racists and the Klan has been a dying breed for years.

reply to post by butcherguy


I appreciate your information regarding the SPLC. I completely agree that youths in trouble are not getting enough attention.

Can you please point me to a source or two that gives this background/history of how they came to be? (They have rather confused me, I admit).
Thank you kindly.

reply to post by wildtimes


Have a look at the Wikipedia page for them. They had a good purpose when founded and accomplished a lot.

If you look at the list of groups that they call hate groups, that is when you have to wonder a little bit. They list Patriot groups as 'hate groups'. If you check on Patriot groups, they distrust the government... I don't see why that automatically places them in the hate group category. The SPLC likes to say that Patriot groups are militias or that they have strong ties with militia groups. Well, if you look into the militia groups, you will see that there have been next to zero violent actions done by actual militia groups. Check into it, you will find them referencing the 'Hutaree'. Check that out, and you find that the Hutaree were caught up in a sting operation by the federal government. They were found guilty of conspiracy. They didn't blow anyone up, they weren't found guilty of possessing something illegal, they were found guilty of thinking and talking about certain things.

People on a conspiracy website need to look at things like this... and think, , could it be me next? I thought or spoke about something that Obama said not to talk about... I have two children that are Roman Catholics...

Sorry, I got some info wrong about the Hutaree, they were not found guilty of the thought crimes, which were actually the most serious....

On March 27, 2012, a federal judge acquitted seven Hutaree defendants of the most serious charges related to conspiracy and sedition; they were free to go. David Stone Sr. and Joshua Stone continued to be held on weapons-related charges.[24][25] On August 8, 2012, David Stone Sr., Joshua Stone and Joshua Clough were sentenced to time served on weapons-related charges, to which they pleaded guilty, and placed under supervision for two years.[26]

Wikipedia: Hutaree

They had weapons that were not registered (that should have been, according to current federal law) and that is what the feds got out of the expensive sting operation and trial.
Most important, they had no explosives or weapons of mass destruction, which was what the whole idea of the federal charges was about.

Originally posted by butcherguy
reply to post by wildtimes

 

Have a look at the Wikipedia page for them. They had a good purpose when founded and accomplished a lot.

If you look at the list of groups that they call hate groups, that is when you have to wonder a little bit. They list Patriot groups as 'hate groups'. If you check on Patriot groups, they distrust the government... I don't see why that automatically places them in the hate group category. The SPLC likes to say that Patriot groups are militias or that they have strong ties with militia groups. Well, if you look into the militia groups, you will see that there have been next to zero violent actions done by actual militia groups. Check into it, you will find them referencing the 'Hutaree'. Check that out, and you find that the Hutaree were caught up in a sting operation by the federal government. They were found guilty of conspiracy. They didn't blow anyone up, they weren't found guilty of possessing something illegal, they were found guilty of thinking and talking about certain things.

People on a conspiracy website need to look at things like this... and think,

, could it be me next? I thought or spoke about something that Obama said not to talk about... I have two children that are Roman Catholics...

Sorry, I got some info wrong about the Hutaree, they were not found guilty of the thought crimes, which were actually the most serious....

On March 27, 2012, a federal judge acquitted seven Hutaree defendants of the most serious charges related to conspiracy and sedition; they were free to go. David Stone Sr. and Joshua Stone continued to be held on weapons-related charges.[24][25] On August 8, 2012, David Stone Sr., Joshua Stone and Joshua Clough were sentenced to time served on weapons-related charges, to which they pleaded guilty, and placed under supervision for two years.[26]

Wikipedia: Hutaree

They had weapons that were not registered (that should have been, according to current federal law) and that is what the feds got out of the expensive sting operation and trial.
Most important, they had no explosives or weapons of mass destruction, which was what the whole idea of the federal charges was about.

edit on 10-4-2013 by butcherguy because: To add, and correct.

upon looking at the above linked wiki page for the southern poverty law center...it is apparent that that these groups were taken to court for more than just "wanting freedom of speech or thought crimes"

as for "freedom of speech" would you have the same opinion if you had dozens of black panther groups across the nation, with their own outdoor training facilities, in camos, with survival gear, assault weapons, thousands of rounds of ammo, practicing war games that involved bombing, and killing those that supported the white man's government?

Regarding the SPLC.... Anyone know why they omit the Muslim faith and its views towards extremism and discrimination in regards to hot button topics like homosexuality? SPLC is quick to constantly redefine "hate" to encompass Christians who still believe in traditional marriage yet they exempt Muslims who oppose a gay lifestyle.

SPLC is in the "business" of creating relevancy for themselves in order to solicit donations so that they can pay their big wigs BIG BUCKS. Its co founder Morris Dees was making close to 350K a year last time I checked a couple of years ago. They are vey adept at using the famous broad brush technique to constantly lump any and all conservatives with the likes of KKK, Aryan Nation etc etc whatever happens to be the hate group of the day.

The SPLC is based in a majority black city, in a majority black county, in the state with the second highest percentage of blacks. Yet, no black person has ever held a top paying position in the SPLC’s 41 year history.

Top paid executives. This is base salary. Morris Dees also gets hundreds of thousands more in bonuses. The SPLC’s highest paid black employee makes less than one third what the man listed as “former COO” on tax records gets paid!

topconservativenews.com...

rkeefe57.wordpress.com...

reply to post by jimmyx

it is apparent that that these groups were taken to court for more than just "wanting freedom of speech or thought crimes"

Yup, taken to court as the result of a sting operation by the feds.... that had NO LEGS. The stuff they trumped up didn't get convictions.

as for "freedom of speech" would you have the same opinion if you had dozens of black panther groups across the nation, with their own outdoor training facilities, in camos, with survival gear, assault weapons, thousands of rounds of ammo, practicing war games that involved bombing, and killing those that supported the white man's government?

Part of my racial makeup is African.
I obviously am okay with just that. Look up the New Black Panthers. They do all of that and some more. See the website for them.
They blocked polling places using clubs.... but no charges were filed. You can read their history at the SPLC site....here.

Now, you want to say all of these groups are running around, armed and dangerous... what have they been charged with... as far as actual crimes? Including the New Black Panther Party?

reply to post by wildtimes


No, it isn't that hard to differentiate between the two...I am an American....does that make me a Republican or a Democrat? I live in North America....does that make me Canadian? I like animals.....does that make me a vegetarian?

Christians......real Christians......meaning those that either try to follow, believe in, or just understand Jesus' message are NOT FUNDAMENTALIST.....they can't be.....fundamentalist are intolerant of other beliefs.

I could care less if some "expert(s)" blur that simple fact. Calling oneself a Christian does not make one a Christian. More importantly, and controversial is, even if you are Atheist, Agnostic, Humanist, Jew, etc..you may be a "Christian" without accepting or being accepted as one.
Most of us have "Christian" values and most of us have Humanist values and Buddist, and Bhai, and etc.

The problem most religion haters have is their concepts of these individual categories.
For example. We are all humans...nobody has an issue with that...we all have an idea of what being a human is and being a member of that group allows "most" of us to have a higher degree of tolerance. But when you sort humans into Country of origin, then less tolerant, then color, less tolerant, religion less tolerant,...right down to zero tolerance.

If you, meaning anyone reading this, is offended when being called a Christian, think about what it is about that which offends you. Did Jesus teach anything that you don't agree with? How much didn't you agree with? Do you find yourself "ever" agreeing with something he taught? Does it matter or change anything when you experience other people that say they are Christians do things not Christian? Would it bother you the same if these same people were telling you that they were born on Mars? or if they told you that they bought the
Earth from an alien and you owe them rent money? or that they are 70 feet tall but just not around you.....

The point is........just because someone claims to be something, it doesn't mean anything without some observable or intuitive support. AND just because someone claims NOT to be something, doesn't mean they aren't.

You do not need to believe in anything to be Christian....YOU DO if you are going to be a member of a religion and the specific denomination.....Saying you are a Christian does not make you one, but you may be one even though you say you aren't.

The easiest way to support this is to think of it as taking one of those 20 question tests you find in a magazine to see if you are..(insert the purpose of the test) Take 20 of Jesus' core teachings and see where you stand regarding them......wouldn't it reveal that some people who had no clue they were Christian, turned out to be?

The religion, the denominations, that represent Christianity, will tell you that you must a) accept Jesus to be the Son of God. b) died for your sins. c) arose from the dead. They will say that is what makes a person Christian..OR they will at least say that it is a bare minimum. Who cares what they say? Do I pay less taxes if I am a member of the "Church" or religion?

disclosure: I am Roman Catholic/Lutheran as far as being baptized, confirmation, and churches that I attend.
I went to a Catholic college my 1st year and a Lutheran college the other 3 years.
Being a member of a religion, and these denominations, does not make me a Christian. I am a Christian because I believe in the teachings of Jesus. I am liberated by this simplistic view because it allows me to follow his teachings a little more easily since it does not create from the start, an adversarial predisposition with others because we don't share the same rigid beliefs.....just like it is with an American walking up to an Iranian...there is that first obstacle to get over, rather than if it was just one human walking about to another.

reply to post by Res Ipsa

Christians......real Christians......meaning those that either try to follow, believe in, or just understand Jesus' message are NOT FUNDAMENTALIST.....they can't be.....fundamentalist are intolerant of other beliefs.

Thanks for your opinion, but since you are neither an Evangelical (many of whom are very intolerant of other beliefs, even denying that Catholics are doctrinally Christians), nor a Fundamentalist, and did not really address the difference between those two (which was my original point), I don't feel that you addressed the issue satisfactorily.

I understand completely the difference between a person who lives according to the teachings of Jesus (and many, many others before and after him who taught the same things), and one who goes to church on Sunday (or Saturday in the case of Seventh Day Adventists) but behaves like an ass the rest of the time.

I once worked with a Catholic woman who gave up "saying nasty things to or about people" for Lent. And ONLY for Lent. I kid you not. She was one of the most unpleasant, hateful, mean people I have ever met. She was vicious and spiteful, bullying and rude. She failed to a large degree, and when Lent was over, she was back at it again, and I used to overhear her and sigh and think, "Is it Lent yet?"

So, that being beside the point, there are plenty of Evangelicals who despise people who don't believe what they do, and Fundamentalists are the spawn of Evangelicals. While I respect and appreciate your academic background, there are many people who are BOTH. Anyone who would send their child to Jesus Camp, or fill their little heads with visions of torture in hell, is a fundamentalist and abusive. They are not much different than Hamas, and they do a lot of damage to their children, who frequently then pass on that teaching to the next generation.

People who want to "bring on Armageddon" and are shouting for "war with Iran" are dangerous and extreme. As far as I'm concerned, this is established fact, and it is happening every day. There's no denying it.

Thank you for your thoughtful post, however.

reply to post by wildtimes


I believe......that "evangelicals" are all about actively trying to convert or bring people to "Jesus"
they want to "save souls" misguided or not, their intention is benevolent.

that "fundamentalist" are all about rigid, unyielding, intolerance. They are right you are wrong,
completely non-secular, void of rational thought, they are prone to violence, they are at war,
they are uneducated, often abused, manipulated, IQ challenged, and are the furthest fringes
of those groups they belong to.....All fundamentalism is evil, meaning it operates without love.

Does this address your question more to the point.

reply to post by Res Ipsa

Does this address your question more to the point.

Yep!

Doesn't change the fact that many Evangelicals run around or furiously type away spewing dazzling hatred at people who don't want to be 'converted to Jesus', I have been accused of being very evil, told I am going to hell, that I'm supporting Satan....that I am a curse and possessed by a demon.

These people are trying to 'save my soul' by belittling, insulting, shushing (ha, good luck with that one!), and shaming me?
Yet what I consistently stand for is justice, equality, peace, cooperation, dialogue, mutual understanding, humanity's well-being, and putting a stop to manipulation, exploitation, subservience, fear, and VIOLENCE.

Bullying others into obedience, squelching creativity and progress, instilling fear, and insisting on following 'rules' or 'doctrines' that DAMAGE people is wrong, regardless of whether a religious label is worn or not. Critical thinking is dying in this country.

Sometimes I wonder if some people heard the term and took it to mean "judge harshly and condemn everything you don't like."

(It doesn't. In case anyone here doesn't know what that term means, It means to look at all sides of an issue and try to find the best solution, which must include the truth, and may be completely -- and usually is -- outside any 'box' of pre-packaged ideas that are presented.)

Originally posted by winofiend

Originally posted by DarknStormy
More like "We are allowed to kill, they aren't".

Well, if someone comes at you with a knife, are you going to sit there and ponder the subtle differences between god or allah before they thrust it into your neck, or are you going to shoot?

Eh?

Most normal humans try to resolve situations peacefully or with the least harm possible,

Only in america do people instantly go for shooting someone..

reply to post by AmmonSeth

Only in america do people instantly go for shooting someone..

Hardly.

New thread today about a shooting in Belgrade... ATS Thread.

Try this, before you paint the USA as whatever you please....List of countries by firearm-related death rate

reply to post by wildtimes


I consider Tim Tebow to be an evangelical.
The people you are describing sound like "self-professed" evangelicals. They sound like fundamentalist to me.

I'll restate that it doesn't matter what a person calls themselves. I am the King of North Korea if you don't give me a bar of gold I will remove your name from the list of people that I have built homes for in Narnia, which I conquered yesterday and you are evil without a soul. I would imagine a person would discount, disregard, ignore, not take seriously, anything I said right after claiming I was the King of North Korea....When you feel attacked by a "Christian" it should sound exactly likely they are claiming to be King of North Korea.

reply to post by Aloysius the Gaul


You atheist nutter you.

Atheists are crazy and are extremist.