In your opinion, what is HAARPs most destructive & obvious use yet

I'm just curious because theres alot of disagreements as to when HAARP has supposedly been used, and the use of it at all for that matter. What proof do you consider as.. 'proof'?

I for one believe it is being utilized, and the biggest impact its made is fukushima japan. as well as the most obvious considering a seismic wave was recording just BEFORE the actual earthquake. Kind of the smoking gun in my opinion.

Weather manipulation.

Or

Electromagnetic warfare.

Both

reply to post by WontBeFooled
My thought is that it were so obvious as to be provable then HAARP could have been shut down by now. Unfortunately while some may suspect that HAARP has been used in a malevolent manner it has yet to be proven. Either the facts and evidence are not there or there is a conspiracy to keep it quiet. I am leaning more toward the former than the latter.

??? why did they build the dam thing in the first place, and then all the subsequent locations.
the weather was just fine without it!

reply to post by WontBeFooled

Both

Or how about neither...

In fact here is a good thread about HAARP

www.abovetopsecret.com...

reply to post by tsurfer2000h


Weather:
My thoughts are,It's target is the ionosphere (research) which plays an important role in atmospheric electricity. Instead of trying to generate insane amounts of power to effect the atmosphere you target the ionosphere and let the sun do the work.

Electromagnetic warfare:
Warfare is what the DOD does.

Not saying I believe either way, I admit I don't know. But if the gov says its not a weapon I tend to think it most likely is. Everything they create is intended for war.

I am going to take it as a given, that the people who think HAARP can affect the weather or cause earthquakes, have failed Physics II, and have no background in electronics or radios.

Seriously, HAARP can do neither of those things.
Because: Physics.

You can look it up. Open a Physics II book, read the parts about conductors, electromagnetism and electron shell theory.
Note the important parts where it says that the electrons can only travel on the surface of a conductor.
Note: that the Earth itself is a huge conductor.
Learn the fact that electricity can only travel so far into the ground, due to the fact that the earth is a conductor.
Look up lighting strikes and the results of what they do to the ground, and how the energy is displaced.

Next:
Open a basic book on radio electronics and signal propagation.
Read it, and learn how far signals can travel and how much power is required to accomplish it.
Pay attention to atmospheric conditions and how they effect transmission.
Note the required power in watts to do so.

Then if you really want to get into it, pick up a book on high frequency electronics and high energy physics.
Then you can see the really cool stuff about electron tunneling and how they need super cooled materials to achieve it.

Have fun.
M

reply to post by swimmer15

Not saying I believe either way, I admit I don't know. But if the gov says its not a weapon I tend to think it most likely is. Everything they create is intended for war.

Now how many military bases that are supposed to be top secret actually give reports on what they do?

HAARP is not classified. There are no classified documents pertaining to HAARP. The Environmental Impact Process (EIP) documents have always been, are now, and will always be completely descriptive of the program in its entirety. The EIP documents are a matter of public record

www.haarp.alaska.edu...

There are also many other civilian and educational facilities that use HAARP and it's research..

Several universities have played a major role in HAARP from its inception to the present time including the University of Alaska, The Leland Stanford University, Penn State University (ARL), Boston College, Dartmouth University, Cornell University, Virginia Tech, University of Maryland, University of Massachusetts, MIT, Polytechnic University, UCLA, Clemson University and the University of Florida. The development of the program objectives and initial design concept, selection of the prime contractor, development of diagnostic equipment, and the planning of research campaigns have all been heavily dependent on university involvement. University students and professors make up the majority of attendees at the annual Ionospheric Interactions Workshop where progress in ionospheric research is reported.

www.haarp.alaska.edu...

The government doesn't make it a habit of letting college students study a top secret weapon that they are trying to hide from the public....

I guess "in your opinion" means different things to some people. I never claimed to be a subject matter expert.

Thanks Tsurfer for posting up some facts on the topic.

Originally posted by Moshpet
I am going to take it as a given, that the people who think HAARP can affect the weather or cause earthquakes, have failed Physics II, and have no background in electronics or radios.

Seriously, HAARP can do neither of those things.
Because: Physics.

You can look it up. Open a Physics II book, read the parts about conductors, electromagnetism and electron shell theory.
Note the important parts where it says that the electrons can only travel on the surface of a conductor.
Note: that the Earth itself is a huge conductor.
Learn the fact that electricity can only travel so far into the ground, due to the fact that the earth is a conductor.
Look up lighting strikes and the results of what they do to the ground, and how the energy is displaced.

Next:
Open a basic book on radio electronics and signal propagation.
Read it, and learn how far signals can travel and how much power is required to accomplish it.
Pay attention to atmospheric conditions and how they effect transmission.
Note the required power in watts to do so.

Then if you really want to get into it, pick up a book on high frequency electronics and high energy physics.
Then you can see the really cool stuff about electron tunneling and how they need super cooled materials to achieve it.

Have fun.
M

edit on 7-4-2013 by Moshpet because: M+A+T+H = 42

K, now listen to this.

That is the first necessity of a Type 1 species.. controlling the planets weather. i'm not saying HAARP is used for that.. i actually dont think that is what they're using at all. so, yes, physics does not prove HAARP possible of initiating such weather disasters. even though Tesla (remember him?) made a whole part of the earth inhabitable with theories of electromagnetism that would make you and the guy that wrote physics II cum in ur pants.

There is technology that can. thats all im saying.

I was going to be totally snarky here, I was. But I stopped myself.

Really.

Tesla did some cool stuff, but in truth, there is more myth than fact ever presented for what he is supposed to have done.
I will grant his earthquake machine was real, because it was actually proven to have 1- followed physics, 2- was reproducible, 3- Google Mythbusters Tesla, Earthquake Machine.

Wireless power sources, I will grant can be done, but thus far the range is limited. Not to mention it: 1- Follows physics and 2- Has been reproduced.

HAARP, can not effect the weather or earthquakes. Period.

M.

IMO HAARP's most destructive activity has been to inspire various stupid conspiracy theories.

Addendum:
Evidently I have to add a correction about Tesla and long distance wireless power:

Evidently someone has figured out the range aspects.

www.minds.com...

Again, physics, and reproducible.

M.

I have absolutely no proof of this ( always a good way to start an ATS thread ). HAARP, to me, may be used to look for cavities in the top 200 miles of the earths crust and sublayer. Perhaps oil could be found before other countries have a clue its there. Maybe it could save billions looking for oil in US territories. Or even more sinister, they could be used to find the subterranean caves that are rumored to dot the earth, that may or may not be used for bases of some sort. I think the weather manipulation is a ploy for the real reason why you would want to bounce the microwaves off the ionosphere: to penetrate deep into the earth's top layer or two.

Speckle

reply to post by Speckle


Again, impossible. Oh you can bounce signals alright, but penetrate the Earth to a depth to do such things? Nope.
They use 'shaker' trucks and sensors to record the signals that return, much like seismometers detect quakes. Then they use a computer to build a model to look and see what the results were. (Check the LA SInkhole thread for links to show shaker trucks etc.)

There are Earth Mapping Satellites that use radar to make a map of elevation changes and such, but again that is surface mapping based off of radar returns. (Signal reflection.)

M.

Some people think that HAARP can generate ELF by exciting the ionosphere at appropraite frequencies, nd that hose waves that can penetrate the earth and do all sorts of weird stuff.

ELF may penetrate the earth....but with wavelengths of 1000's of kilometers they are not going to bounce of anything smaller than that - they might tell you the earth is there, but would be useless for telling you that there's anything smaller than the earth there!!

reply to post by Moshpet



3MW of power, thats around enough to power 2000 average homes, that is a lot of damn power if its all dedicated to a radio device. Most likely it is and the facility pulls power from the grid for its power and the generators are for the device itself , so that when they turn it on and off they can do so without straining the grid. To say it could be a weapon is not far fetched. I have seen with my own eyes, radio/radar equipment with a whole lot less power knock seagulls out of the air mid-flight. 3MW is nothing in regards to power generation so if this is a test platform, going allot bigger in the future is nothing.
HAARPs website says it "excites" particles in the ionosphere. My guess is if they "excite" particles in the ionosphere, its to measure the effects of such excitement. Am I wrong here?

So my question is.
If i'm not, how is it "impossible", as you say to "excite" the ionosphere enough to allow more of the suns radiation etc. to penetrate and effect the atmosphere? The people at HAARP itself says they indeed excite it and it causes an effect, "but the effect is small and quickly dissipates". Why even mention this if it has nothing to do with its purpose? My guess is to give people a warm an fuzzy about the fact they are trying to manipulate it.Is it far fetched to think they are hiding its capabilities or real purpose in plain sight? After all, if they didn't make its capabilities (even if understated ) available to some degree they could accidentally fry the electronics of an un suspecting aircraft. Allowing colleges access to and utilize them in designing and building of HAARP means nothing. It does not mean they need to or actually know its purpose nor does it mean that all with access has full access. Thinking so is like saying every one who made parts for the stealth fighter knew everything about the stealth fighter.

3MW may be too small to effect it enough, but it does create an effect. I have no trouble believing that this effect is what the government was interested in when they built it. Is it the final product? What happens when we go to 300MW or 30 more HAARPs?
Flame away!