Washington Redskins: Is the name as bad as the N word? Some think so and seek legislation to ban

inamerica.blogs.cnn.com...

The R-word – she can’t even bring herself to say it – is the same as the N-word, says Harjo, president of Morning Star Institute, a national Native American rights organization.

She finds it unbelievable that more than half a century after she was told to get out of that El Reno store, after decades of civil rights struggles and progress on race relations, Americans have no problem with rooting for a team called the Redskins.

Fans say the name is an honorific. But the Merriam-Webster dictionary says this: “The word redskin is very offensive and should be avoided.” And to many Native Americans, nothing could be more derogatory than the use of that word.

Suzan Shown Harjo a dark skinned mixed Native American – Cheyenne and Hodulgee Muscoge, had a traumatizing experience as a child when she was kicked out of a store in the 1950's that didn't serve "black redskins". She has carried this angst with her for years and now seeks to have all sporting franchises with team names that could even be remotely considered racist, remove the names for good.

There used to be more than 3,000 teams with Native American names and mascots. That’s down to about 900 now – but that’s still 900 too many for Gover.

( Kevin Gover of the Smithsonian Institute)

The Washington team – it’s the king of the mountain,” Harjo says. “When this one goes, others will.”

This would effect dozens of pro franchises in the NFL, AFL, NBA, MLB etc. as well as tons of college and high school teams.

What do I think? Let the Redskins keep the name. To me it's not racist unless used in a demeaning manor. I'm sure there are many American Indians living in Washington that is proud to have the major football team named for the Indians. I think his woman would have to prove the name is used in a way that purposefully reflects badly on the Indians. I think she is angry about her treatment as a child and is lashing out with that anger.

What do you think?

I agree with her. And while we're at it, get rid of every people-based team name, like Vikings. There are millions of other words that can be used as a team's mascot.

reply to post by JohnPhoenix


I personally think it is PC run amok!
What's the new name?
Washington Jellied Eels! (that offends me, I was once harmed by an eel.)

If we cater to every whim, then we leave a sterile, cold world for the next generation.

Redskins I don't mind as much as others, they have a nice logo.



But why the 'ell are the Cleveland Indians still getting away with that racist logo, and the schools and pro teams who have chief "mascots" in full honorary headdress??? They all just look strange now.

EDIT: I just looked at the Cleveland Indians logo, and never noticed two things before: It's a white person in "Redface" (the red on the face cuts off at the forehead). And the Indian-mask or make-up has two pointy horns on top, the "average persons" image of a demon (I personally like horns). This makes that logo even more weird.

Originally posted by beezzer
reply to post by JohnPhoenix

 

I personally think it is PC run amok!
What's the new name?
Washington Jellied Eels! (that offends me, I was once harmed by an eel.)

If we cater to every whim, then we leave a sterile, cold world for the next generation.

every whim ? really ? if you have to go that far to make a point, you don't have one. my 12 year old daughter just told me it would be smart to get rid of it because the team name shouldn't insult people

simple

Have you seen the Birmingham Blackskins play? They are a credit to their race, ah, I mean league. Yeah, maybe using the name Redskins might be getting old.

Originally posted by beezzer
reply to post by JohnPhoenix

 

I personally think it is PC run amok!
What's the new name?
Washington Jellied Eels! (that offends me, I was once harmed by an eel.)

If we cater to every whim, then we leave a sterile, cold world for the next generation.

Think you can whine about pc more? It is a derogatory name plain and simple. And a cold sterile world is better than one that accepts racism like you do.

reply to post by JohnPhoenix
I think if she really wants to do something to help her fellow Native Americans there are bigger fish to fry than trying to change the name of a sports team- like poor living conditions, malnutrition, sub-standard schools and just out and out poverty experienced by many who still live on reservations.

I found this quote in a Native American message board.
nativeamerican.proboards.com...

I really don't understand the offense caused by the Redskins or the Florida Seminoles with the war cry thing or the Atlanta Braves(?) fans doing the tomahawk chop thing. Several cultures have been singled out to be the mascots of a sports franchise because they are independent, tough and fierce like the Celtics or the Texans or the Vikings. Nobody's gonna name their team after something mundane like the "Pennsylvania Amish" or the "Washington Politicians". I kinda take pride that a sports franchise sees our ancestors as having that much courage and strength of will to keep going on.

reply to post by JohnPhoenix


I think we should be allowed to say racist things if they are true, and not derogatory, or spiteful.

And I think it does more harm to think that skin color is a derogatory remark.

reply to post by JohnPhoenix

Here in the UK Washington Redskins are a type of apple. Maybe thats what they should change the logo to.

I hope when Aliens come down and visit they do not take offence that Manchester City have 2 Aliens as mascots.


Meet Moonchester and his gal Moonbeam.

Originally posted by beezzer
I found this quote in a Native American message board.
nativeamerican.proboards.com...

I really don't understand the offense caused by the Redskins or the Florida Seminoles with the war cry thing or the Atlanta Braves(?) fans doing the tomahawk chop thing. Several cultures have been singled out to be the mascots of a sports franchise because they are independent, tough and fierce like the Celtics or the Texans or the Vikings. Nobody's gonna name their team after something mundane like the "Pennsylvania Amish" or the "Washington Politicians". I kinda take pride that a sports franchise sees our ancestors as having that much courage and strength of will to keep going on.

What makes you think the person that posted that is even a Native American? Because it's on a Native American forum? And what is the big difference between the other names he posted and Redskin? Seminoles, Braves, Celtic, Amish, Texans, and Politicians are not derogatory names. It is obvious that you have no problem with racism as long as it's not against you. Man up and admit it.

Originally posted by Bleeeeep
reply to post by JohnPhoenix

 

I think we should be allowed to say racist things if they are true, and not derogatory, or spiteful.

And I think it does more harm to think that skin color is a derogatory remark.

Here's a big surprise to you. Native Americans are NOT red. So how can it be true.

Originally posted by buster2010
It is obvious that you have no problem with racism as long as it's not against you. Man up and admit it.

*whaaa*

Sensitive much?

It's people like yourself that create false strawmen in order to promote your own brand of equality, just as long as it is on your terms.

Your point is invalid because you can't prove that the poster ISN'T native American!

Having read the article, the following can be stated:

Any major sports team is a franchise and the owner(s) call the shots. If this woman thinks that the name is racist, then here is my advise to her: Buy the franchise and team, then change the name to what she would think and believe to be a good name and see what the fans think at the games. Ultimately it is the fans that will say yes or no on a team, and names identify such. But keep in mind that if she does that, she can not sell the team once the name is changed as the new owner may decide that it needs to go back.

I can sure see where she has a case here.
Although I think she is going after it totally wrong as another member has said she could be trying to help some of the Indian reservations out there. If I was here I'd be going after them paying to use such names if there are not more then half Indians on the teams using them.

To tell you the truth I think she is more correct then when the N word was hit as being racial. I mean the n word to this day is being used by the same race that called it a racial word.

Originally posted by Bleeeeep
reply to post by JohnPhoenix

 

I think we should be allowed to say racist things if they are true, and not derogatory, or spiteful.

And I think it does more harm to think that skin color is a derogatory remark.

You're right, skin color is not by itself derogatory. The problem comes in the fact that there's a historical context that goes along with "redskin". Sure it isn't explicit, but the implication is that the mascot is the fierce, savage warrior- the stereotype Native American peoples have had to wrangle with for centuries. On the flip side, some folks have a strong, albeit misguided and not intentionally offensive, sense of reverence for "native culture," and you get an almost equally racist stereotype of the "noble savage." One could make a strong argument that European settlers and their descendants committed genocide (mass killing, stamping out of culture, etc, etc), although it has been disguised as "war." This is neither here nor there for this thread, but yeah, race, culture and identity is a pretty sensitive topic for many Native Americans (and in my opinion rightfully so).

I have heard many compelling arguments from both sides when it comes to use of ethnicity as mascot...certainly not a cut-and-dry issue.

reply to post by buster2010


I'll accept being labeled as white or paleface, if the labels aren't meant to be hurtful. After all, I am white and palefaced in comparison to other races. That's not a bad thing.

What color are your eyes and hair? Caucasian colored?

It is just sad when a people can be blatantly mocked and have no one care.

The native people I see are the only ones that one can be openly racist towards and not get any flack for it. Even on ATS...I have read countless threads where names and stereotypes have been used and that post will receive no warning or even blocked. Other cultures you use these stereotypes and terms to describe them and the mods would be right on it.

The term redskin is a derogatory term and any one who says otherwise is ignorant. When the settlers first came here..that term was met as an insult to the Native Americans. Now they are supposed to just forget about it's history and get over it.

When it comes to Natives and their past..they are told to just get over it. Not only them but other minorities...just get over it.

But 9/11 and the holocaust...NEVER FORGET..

Does anyone else find it sad that a people that flourished and made this land their home..are now considered a minority in their own country.