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Beyonce and Jay-Z Cuba Visit Queried...

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posted on Apr, 8 2013 @ 12:03 PM
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reply to post by JohnnyCanuck
 


Did you visit and hang out in Havana's Afro-Cuban shanty towns? Doubtful...you would have never been granted access. Glad you enjoyed your trip though. I have heard that the scuba diving is top notch in the Cuban waters and as a sailor maybe someday I will be able to make the quick trip to explore the Island. But, not until the regime is toppled and the veil of racism is removed in Cuba.

So, because you didn't see any racism yourself, I am to believe that it does not exist? And everything I read is rubbish because I have not been there? Wow

Surely, there are plenty of problems that have arisen out of the bizarre U.S./ Cuban relationship but the problem with racism was there long before Castro took hold of the nation.

Shanty towns made possible by Cuba's own heavy handed fist

Cubans call them "Palestinos" (Palestinians) because they live like displaced refugees. The majority hail from distant provinces in the east of the island, where living conditions and money-earning opportunities are inferior to Havana.

State controls on housing and jobs make it hard for Cubans to move about the island to hunt for a new life, so simply moving to the big city sets in motion a series of illegal acts. Their shacks are built without permits, which makes their new home illegal and prevents them from applying for government jobs or state food rations. Most work illegally on the black market, raising pigs and chickens in their back yards, or, like Balmaseda, operate small unlicensed businesses from their homes



.In a speech in July 2007, Raúl Castro said a Cuban state salary was "clearly insufficient to satisfy all necessities." He noted this brought "social indiscipline" and black marketeering.

Due to the economic crisis, the government appears to be taking a lenient approach to the squatters. A law that requires illegal squatters to be evicted and returned to their home towns is not being enforced.

Nor is the state doing anything to prevent squatters from stringing illegal lines to state utility poles to get free electricity. Indeed, Castro has publicly advocated formalizing the squatter communities and incorporating them into local municipalities.

As squatters are being formalized, the legal housing is crumbling, literally.

In downtown Havana old tenement buildings collapse on almost a daily basis, leaving piles of bricks and rubble in the streets. The government tries to prop up the facades with wooden scaffolding, but most of its resources go into construction of new hotels and stores for the tourist industry, Cuba's top foreign currency earner.

"The whole city is falling down," said Miguel Martinez, surveying the rusty skeleton of a recently collapsed apartment building.


www.tampabay.com...

www.havanatimes.org...

Another enlightening read
www.havanatimes.org...



posted on Apr, 8 2013 @ 12:05 PM
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Originally posted by bigfatfurrytexan
reply to post by jibeho
 


so the racism in Cuba isn't Cuban racism insomuch as appeasement of European racism? How does that make Cuba look bad in any sort of way?

If i am running a cocktail lounge, i sure ain't hiring a big, old, fat, beard sporting man to be the cocktail server. It fails to meet the expectations of my customers. The sorry old misogynists that they are.

If you want to improve the living conditions of Cuba, then welcome them into the international community. Being from the "land of the free", it sure seems that America likes to deny freedom an awful lot.


Are you Blind?

Oh, so its all our fault ? Great escape from a very complicated situation. Good Luck!!



posted on Apr, 8 2013 @ 12:14 PM
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Originally posted by WhiteAlice
Kind of humorous to note that Cuba is actually one of the biggest tourist destinations for Canadians as it is a tropical get-away that is fairly cheap because, well, we don't go there. About a million Canadians are tourists in Cuba each year.

www.tripcentral.ca...

Looks pretty actually.


I was going to point this out as well. As a Canadian, Cuba is "the" vacation destination...some people I know go several times a year. I didn't realize that US citizens were not allowed to go there! Learn something new every day...

Michelle



posted on Apr, 8 2013 @ 12:27 PM
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reply to post by Michelle129th
 


And Cuban govt. $ is being spent to support tourism and to build new govt. owned hotels. Too bad they don't have enough money to repair and replace the govt. supplied housing that is literally collapsing on a daily basis.

Good for the tourists who want a cheap vacation though!!!



posted on Apr, 8 2013 @ 01:43 PM
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Originally posted by jibeho
reply to post by JohnnyCanuck
 
Did you visit and hang out in Havana's Afro-Cuban shanty towns? Doubtful...you would have never been granted access.
I was also told to stay out of the Treme in the late afternoon in case I couldn't make it back to the Quarter by nightfall. Every city has an impoverished underclass. Same admonitions exist, even in Toronto. Fact is, I have likely seen more evidence of racism in my visits to the US than I have in Cuba.


Originally posted by jibeho
reply to post by Michelle129th
 
And Cuban govt. $ is being spent to support tourism and to build new govt. owned hotels. Too bad they don't have enough money to repair and replace the govt. supplied housing that is literally collapsing on a daily basis. Good for the tourists who want a cheap vacation though!!!
Do I really have to explain that tourism attracts hard currency for the Cubans to function on the world market? It's not like they are getting any credit from the States. The hotels, btw, are generally constructed by Spanish firms and co-managed for a set number of years until the Cubans assume responsibility. Pretty darn safe place to travel, too.

edit on 8-4-2013 by JohnnyCanuck because: ...just because, eh?



posted on Apr, 8 2013 @ 03:05 PM
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Originally posted by jibeho

Originally posted by bigfatfurrytexan
reply to post by jibeho
 


so the racism in Cuba isn't Cuban racism insomuch as appeasement of European racism? How does that make Cuba look bad in any sort of way?

If i am running a cocktail lounge, i sure ain't hiring a big, old, fat, beard sporting man to be the cocktail server. It fails to meet the expectations of my customers. The sorry old misogynists that they are.

If you want to improve the living conditions of Cuba, then welcome them into the international community. Being from the "land of the free", it sure seems that America likes to deny freedom an awful lot.


Are you Blind?

Oh, so its all our fault ? Great escape from a very complicated situation. Good Luck!!


You are moving the goal posts.

At first it was oppression. Then it was racism. Now you want to argue whose fault it is.

How about this: humanity tends to be racist, so it is humanities fault. "Let he who casts the first stone" kind of stuff.

Cuba's government needs funds to operate. They are not allowed free trade with our trade partners. So they are evil for gathering money in other ways?

Are we decrying the "austerity" in the EU as being oppressive? Shall we cite their racism? Oh wait....you already did. Yet it is Cuba who is wrong.



posted on Apr, 8 2013 @ 03:33 PM
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reply to post by JohnnyCanuck
 


Did you stay in one of those Chinese Hotels in Cuba?


The luxe-hotel is a joint effort between Cuba and China that will cost approximately $117 million (51 percent Chinese capital and 49 percent Cuban). According to reports, the hotel complex will have 650 rooms and cover an area of about 19 acres in the "Marina Hemingway" tourist center in western Havana.

This isn't the first project Cuba and China are working on together - China is Cuba's second-largest trading partner, so it's no surprise the two friends have joined together to create a luxury hotel for tourists. The two countries have a total of 13 projects currently in development and spanning various industries including mechanics, communications, agricultural production and tourism.

www.gadling.com...

Yes I know how tourism and revenue works in a traditional market but we are talking about revenue in a govt. controlled country. The revenue goes where the govt. wants it to go.

Hotels? or Housing? in a country where housing is controlled by the Govt.

Please Watch.
videos.huffingtonpost.com...

Your tourist dollars are certainly not being used to solve the housing crisis in Cuba. So who is getting rich in Cuba?? Please answer honestly. The Chinese? The Cuban Govt., Other Foreign Investors? or The people Cuba?


edit on 8-4-2013 by jibeho because: (no reason given)



posted on Apr, 8 2013 @ 04:20 PM
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reply to post by jibeho
 


I would posit that due to our trade sanctions, far fewer are getting rich in Cuba than should be.

Yeah. Our stand has been extremely productive. And entire generation has come to pass, and we are still beating that dead horse. Meanwhile, the suffering of Cubans has become OUR fault, for not doing something to at least give them a chance. A chance by allowing business to flow in their country. A chance by giving them an economy with jobs.



posted on Apr, 8 2013 @ 04:35 PM
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reply to post by bigfatfurrytexan
 


Time to stop blaming the embargo for Cuba's problems. Blame Castro's Command economy that was firmly established in 1976 to prohibit private enterprise and private ownership of property, it completely destroyed the free market in Cuba, thereby hindering any hope of prosperity and economic growth.

The Soviets propped up Castro and Cuba to the tune of nearly $5billion a year until about 1988 or 89. That all changed with the collapse of the USSR. Remember the Mid 1990's in Cuba? The unrest and the endless stream of refugees taking to the water?

Get the current regime to embrace a free market and you will watch Cuba bloom like a field of Holland Tulips. Foreign investors deal directly with the regime because there is no other way. That has to change for things to improve in Cuba. I could go on and on regarding the ways in which Cuba could improve its own situation.

Lifting the embargo will have no effect as long as the govt. controls everything in Cuba. It will make no difference!!



posted on Apr, 8 2013 @ 05:08 PM
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reply to post by jibeho
 


You cannot blame his economic policies for failure when his economic policies failed in part due to our own intervention.

I get it, too. He was communist, and a friend of our enemy. But that enemy is gone. Long gone. And our continuing the sanctions has become just plain mean.

Feel however you want. But until we do something other than try to starve the government out, the people of Cuba will continue to suffer. And that makes it our fault, since we already KNOW that the government will feed itself first.



posted on Apr, 8 2013 @ 05:30 PM
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Originally posted by jibeho
[Your tourist dollars are certainly not being used to solve the housing crisis in Cuba. So who is getting rich in Cuba?? Please answer honestly. The Chinese? The Cuban Govt., Other Foreign Investors? or The people Cuba?
So go visit, take a look around and report back to us, eh?



posted on Apr, 9 2013 @ 02:19 AM
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Originally posted by DontTreadOnMe
Regardless of whether or not the ban should remain, it was put there for a very good reason.
Which is well-remembered by those around in the early 60s.

No fan of the current administration, but the current reasons are here:

Why the Ban Continues

From the beginning, the large Cuban communities of vital Electoral College states such as Florida and New York have been largely pro-embargo and therefore politicians have continued to uphold the travel ban. Also, as Obama outlined in 2009, the United States is waiting on Cuba to demonstrate to the world its desire to open its society before the trade and travel restrictions can be fully removed. Obama explained that this must include a release of political prisoners, ending government fees taken out of money sent from abroad (especially from Cuban-American relatives living in the United States and letting U.S. telecommunications companies enter Cuba.
www.ehow.com...
www.ehow.com...
edit on Sun Apr 7 2013 by DontTreadOnMe because: tags


Why don't we ban travel to really horrible countries, like Saudi Arabia? I am not saying we should,but why the double standard?



posted on Apr, 9 2013 @ 03:42 AM
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reply to post by EarthEvolves
 




Why don't we ban travel to really horrible countries, like Saudi Arabia? I am not saying we should,but why the double standard?

Because who get to be our "friends" is not dependent on how they treat their citizens but how loyal they are to us as governments.



posted on Apr, 9 2013 @ 07:59 AM
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Originally posted by JohnnyCanuck

Originally posted by jibeho
[Your tourist dollars are certainly not being used to solve the housing crisis in Cuba. So who is getting rich in Cuba?? Please answer honestly. The Chinese? The Cuban Govt., Other Foreign Investors? or The people Cuba?
So go visit, take a look around and report back to us, eh?


Why would I go visit a country who imprisons its own musicians, writers and artists for expressing their own free thoughts? Kind of Ironic to see two US musicians getting the royal treatment in Cuba eh?

How many Cubans have been executed by their govt. over the years? Remember Castro's famous firing squads at "the wall"? First under Che then Fidel...

www.therealcuba.com...

This thread is hilarious. No one has yet to defend the archaic and cruel policies of Cuba. Just a promo piece for tourism in Cuba... Good job!

Once again, why are Jay Z and Beyoncé celebrating their 5th wedding anniversary in Cuba? The treasury Dept. gave them a license to go so, we'd had better see some diplomatic functions being carried out by these two nimrods. Why the Hollywood obsession with such a Brutal Political Regime? I'm sure the real people of Cuba are fantastic. It's the Govt. that is the problem....It's an easy fix!!!



posted on Apr, 9 2013 @ 11:17 AM
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.
edit on 9-4-2013 by neo96 because: never mind



posted on Apr, 9 2013 @ 12:20 PM
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reply to post by jibeho
 


Until you go for yourself, you are taking the word of a government that I am sure you have admitted is corrupt.



posted on Apr, 9 2013 @ 12:40 PM
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reply to post by Michelle129th
 


We can go there but we need special permission for such a trip from the US government. Some 60k US citizens go there each year so it's not a significant amount. The actual restriction is that we may not spend any money there. So, basically, we can go but we can't buy food, stay in a hotel, or even do such things for free. If we stay more than a day, they consider the US citizen to have spent money in Cuba. US citizens are not allowed to go there as tourists.



posted on Apr, 9 2013 @ 01:12 PM
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Originally posted by Spider879
reply to post by EarthEvolves
 




Why don't we ban travel to really horrible countries, like Saudi Arabia? I am not saying we should,but why the double standard?

Because who get to be our "friends" is not dependent on how they treat their citizens but how loyal they are to us as governments.


Then we should drop the hypocrisy and just admit it.



posted on Apr, 9 2013 @ 03:33 PM
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Originally posted by bigfatfurrytexan
reply to post by jibeho
 


Until you go for yourself, you are taking the word of a government that I am sure you have admitted is corrupt.



I am? Gee thanks.. I thought I was taking the word of the thousands who once lived there and the thousands who still do or still have family living there..... At least those who are not afraid to speak out...


Classic! Yet again more ignorance towards Cuba's govt... You know, the govt. who still holds the key to everything in Cuba.



posted on Apr, 9 2013 @ 03:36 PM
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Originally posted by jibeho
I thought I was taking the word of the thousands who once lived there and the thousands who still do or still have family living there..... At least those who are not afraid to speak out...Classic! Yet again more ignorance towards Cuba's govt... You know, the govt. who still holds the key to everything in Cuba.
How ironic that the one who is bad-mouthing the country the most is forbidden by his government to find out for himself.




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