We staged a hostile take over of the Republican party

reply to post by downtown436


I am not right-wing, nor am I a Liberal, but I know just how effective this tactic can be. In the American system the popular vote really does not mean much. It is the party conventions which hold a lot of weight. For some reason, a lot of Americans are not aware of this. Thus, a lot of party conventions have very low turn out. It is pretty easy to take over a convention. Take them out I say. Heck, if one faction could do it at enough conventions you could completely take over one of the two parties, rename it, and assume total control.

Good work OP.

We need more of this.....Worldwide!

Originally posted by eLPresidente

How can you have your version of organized socialism without the power of the almighty state?

Get rid of the democrats and the republicans.

I also would like to add that you can have your socialism, as long as it is voluntary and you do not force it on anybody that does not welcome it, including me. I'm not a fan of stealing.

Yes I like to steal from the rich who like to steal from the poor. I guess we are even now, aren't we. It all evens out at the end. Where is chairman mao?

Originally posted by EarthCitizen07

Originally posted by eLPresidente

How can you have your version of organized socialism without the power of the almighty state?

Get rid of the democrats and the republicans.

I also would like to add that you can have your socialism, as long as it is voluntary and you do not force it on anybody that does not welcome it, including me. I'm not a fan of stealing.

Yes I like to steal from the rich who like to steal from the poor. I guess we are even now, aren't we. It all evens out at the end. Where is chairman mao?

Getting rid of the political parties doesn't make socialism morally just and it certainly doesn't take the 'state' out of the equation. You said you like limited government/state, how do you achieve that when a large and complex state is needed to do all of the 'socialism-izing'?

Stealing from the rich who indirectly steal from the poor is still stealing. Like I said, as long as you don't force me and others who don't agree to be part of your 'stealing' then that is all that matters. You want to be the good guy? don't FORCE people to do things they don't want to do. That is free will, that is the non-aggression principle.

Socialism isn't only stealing from the rich, it is stealing from everybody and having one single source, the STATE, decide what is the best way to spend that money. Socialism sounds good in theory, until you run out of money to steal and money to give, then you rely on the printing presses and market manipulation to keep the empire/ponzi-scheme going, like we do today.

reply to post by eLPresidente


The democrats and republicans screwed america irreversibly this decade by the housing bubble, then the CDOs that were insured by AIG, then AIG went under and needed bailing out. The banks lended money too easily to people who did not deserve it in the first place. The investors who bought the CDOs lost their shirt. Then the housing market collapsed and the people with their meager jobs could not afford to make their payments, thus the banks step in and auction them.

I don't know the details but something like 5-6 trillion dollars went down the drain bailing out business.

The trade deficits with china are horrible. This has been happening now for decades and accounts for lots of our 16 trillion overall deficit. We no longer have a manufacturing base here in america. We outsource everything and have become a service industry which is typical of many second and third tier nations.

The problem is NOT statism itself . The problem is we have tyrannical statism run by the bilderbergers who go to bohemian grove and plot their next conspiracy. They are billionares and trillionares. Much of their money is tied up in tax haven bank accounts and is not circulating as it should. Thus government has to issue more money(sell treasury bonds) and go further into debt.

I am not for dictatorships, but I am for statism. I am for protectionst measures such as tariffs. I am for sending all the illegals back to their home. I am for fair taxation. Cut down on the military bases overseas.

Free trade doesn't work. Neither does deregulation of the markets. Didn't ronald reagan try that?

reply to post by EarthCitizen07


Going back to what you originally said, you advocated for limited government but it is impossible with your socialist views.

Now you are blatantly calling yourself a statist (which is not a good thing in my book, statists need government to do everything, hold your hand from cradle to grave, statists don't know who would build the roads if government did not exist).

This has nothing to do with the parties, as much as I dislike the two party monopoly, I'm not going to sit here and blame them for everything, they are not the root of all political evil. The STATE is, namely a government that is so depended upon that it has no choice but to grow to a ridiculous size and eventually implode, like we will, like Rome did and all past empires.

You think you're helping people but you have never once addressed your use of force, the very use of force that I have been condemning. In your socialist world, if people didn't want to participate, would you tell them that you know what is good for them and that socialism is the answer then continue to shove it down their throats? Is that the moral thing to do?


You're also wrong about free trade not working, it is the only market force that keeps us progressing and keeping the snake from completely engulfing itself from its tail end. You're still stuck in the paradigm that government is necessary when corporations USE government to benefit them, like the mafia.

Once you understand that concept, you will understand how dangerous it is and that the only way for a government to exist as the servant, not the master is for us to put Constitutional restraints back onto it. Socialism is not the answer, it never was and it never will be.

Voluntaryism > force, try to argue that.

"We the people" do not pick the candidates here in the US. He who has the most money to run the most ads picks the candidates and then we get to vote on them... so the electoral college can choose to elect who they want to.

Originally posted by eLPresidente

Going back to what you originally said, you advocated for limited government but it is impossible with your socialist views.

Now you are blatantly calling yourself a statist (which is not a good thing in my book, statists need government to do everything, hold your hand from cradle to grave, statists don't know who would build the roads if government did not exist).

Why do you think marxism came to being in the first place? Monarchies are the epitomy of small government and despotism. The elites controlling everything in a tyrannical fashion.

This has nothing to do with the parties, as much as I dislike the two party monopoly, I'm not going to sit here and blame them for everything, they are not the root of all political evil. The STATE is, namely a government that is so depended upon that it has no choice but to grow to a ridiculous size and eventually implode, like we will, like Rome did and all past empires.

Mismanaged statism, enforcing the laws upon the downtrodden and giving the elite a free pass is what regression is all about. I never agreed to the corporate bailouts(quantative easing) that has been forced on the taxpayers. It enrages me that people are completly oblivious in that they condone or otherwise even praise financial fraud and use the msm to disinform people into wanting to cut their own throat.

The welfare state was built-in to the capitalist system earlier in the century and should be taken for granted. As for the bailouts they have no place in capitalism especially to such unmanageable levels. If you openup a business and fail then you should accept the consequences and move on. Small business does not get bailouts only the too big to fail do.

Why do you think so many go on welfare? Did they become lazy all of a sudden or is it because of incompetant criminal activity on behalf of the regulators?

You think you're helping people but you have never once addressed your use of force, the very use of force that I have been condemning. In your socialist world, if people didn't want to participate, would you tell them that you know what is good for them and that socialism is the answer then continue to shove it down their throats? Is that the moral thing to do?

Isn't that what big business does to americans? Write the legislation themselves and shove it down our collective throats?

You're also wrong about free trade not working, it is the only market force that keeps us progressing and keeping the snake from completely engulfing itself from its tail end. You're still stuck in the paradigm that government is necessary when corporations USE government to benefit them, like the mafia.

Once you understand that concept, you will understand how dangerous it is and that the only way for a government to exist as the servant, not the master is for us to put Constitutional restraints back onto it. Socialism is not the answer, it never was and it never will be.

Voluntaryism > force, try to argue that.

We ALREADY have free trade. How much more of that do you want? Please show me the protectionist measures in place if you believe otherwise. Do you not see unrestrained globalism as the problem?

Why do you think we are outsourcing so much? What is the penalty for excessive outsourcing? What does government do to protect american JOBS?

Originally posted by downtown436

We are basically of the ilk of Gary Johnson, we want huge tax cuts for everyone, like 95% less taxes, and about a 95% smaller gov't. No more having the gov't with their greedy paws in your pocket, and no more gov't telling you what to put in your body, or what you do in your bedroom.

95% less taxes and 95% less government I assume is hyperbole. That combination would lead to 95% chance of either complete collapse or armed takeover of America.

Originally posted by usernameconspiracy

Originally posted by downtown436

We are basically of the ilk of Gary Johnson, we want huge tax cuts for everyone, like 95% less taxes, and about a 95% smaller gov't. No more having the gov't with their greedy paws in your pocket, and no more gov't telling you what to put in your body, or what you do in your bedroom.

95% less taxes and 95% less government I assume is hyperbole. That combination would lead to 95% chance of either complete collapse or armed takeover of America.

Sorry you're wrong.

Let me guess, you also believe that if government didn't exist or was extremely limited, that nobody would build roads, bridges, or take us to space?

Originally posted by EarthCitizen07

Originally posted by eLPresidente

Going back to what you originally said, you advocated for limited government but it is impossible with your socialist views.

Now you are blatantly calling yourself a statist (which is not a good thing in my book, statists need government to do everything, hold your hand from cradle to grave, statists don't know who would build the roads if government did not exist).

Why do you think marxism came to being in the first place? Monarchies are the epitomy of small government and despotism. The elites controlling everything in a tyrannical fashion.

This has nothing to do with the parties, as much as I dislike the two party monopoly, I'm not going to sit here and blame them for everything, they are not the root of all political evil. The STATE is, namely a government that is so depended upon that it has no choice but to grow to a ridiculous size and eventually implode, like we will, like Rome did and all past empires.

Mismanaged statism, enforcing the laws upon the downtrodden and giving the elite a free pass is what regression is all about. I never agreed to the corporate bailouts(quantative easing) that has been forced on the taxpayers. It enrages me that people are completly oblivious in that they condone or otherwise even praise financial fraud and use the msm to disinform people into wanting to cut their own throat.

The welfare state was built-in to the capitalist system earlier in the century and should be taken for granted. As for the bailouts they have no place in capitalism especially to such unmanageable levels. If you openup a business and fail then you should accept the consequences and move on. Small business does not get bailouts only the too big to fail do.

Why do you think so many go on welfare? Did they become lazy all of a sudden or is it because of incompetant criminal activity on behalf of the regulators?

You think you're helping people but you have never once addressed your use of force, the very use of force that I have been condemning. In your socialist world, if people didn't want to participate, would you tell them that you know what is good for them and that socialism is the answer then continue to shove it down their throats? Is that the moral thing to do?

Isn't that what big business does to americans? Write the legislation themselves and shove it down our collective throats?

You're also wrong about free trade not working, it is the only market force that keeps us progressing and keeping the snake from completely engulfing itself from its tail end. You're still stuck in the paradigm that government is necessary when corporations USE government to benefit them, like the mafia.

Once you understand that concept, you will understand how dangerous it is and that the only way for a government to exist as the servant, not the master is for us to put Constitutional restraints back onto it. Socialism is not the answer, it never was and it never will be.

Voluntaryism > force, try to argue that.

We ALREADY have free trade. How much more of that do you want? Please show me the protectionist measures in place if you believe otherwise. Do you not see unrestrained globalism as the problem?

Why do you think we are outsourcing so much? What is the penalty for excessive outsourcing? What does government do to protect american JOBS?

We have debated the free market before, what is currently place is not free market, it is fascism, that does not derive from the major parties existing, sure the two major parties play a large role but they are not the sole reason fascism exists.

You and I have a few things in common, we are against large corporations or the private sector using the government's monopoly of force to take advantage of people who can't otherwise protect themselves against the government and their 'thug-like tactics'

We disagree on what will take its place. I'm saying socialism requires a large state complex to organize and maintain the 'services' aka 'THEFT' and distribution of money and benefits.

People like you say that education and healthcare should be free and people like me will be the ones warning you (as much as I'd love for everybody to live comfortably for free) that it is unsustainable and will create bubbles that ultimately pop.

A system so complex and large is just BEGGING to be taken advantage of and used for its monopoly on force.

You might as well be MORAL and let free men exchange services and goods with each other WITHOUT aggression.

Let me ask you one more time because I feel this is extremely important.

Voluntaryism > force. Are you going to argue that?

You libertarians are going to be the death of the United States.

reply to post by eLPresidente


Fascism is national socialism. Where do people see national socialism in america or anywhere else for that matter?

In fact we have the complete opposite today. We have international capitalism run by the bilderbergers who meet at bohemian grove to plot their next conspiracy. Are you a fan of Alex Jones or what? Check him out when you get a chance.

Fascism is the most widely abused generic(one size fits all) insult. Fascism was popular because it done away with the european monarchies. If not for fascists we would still call people like Obama "your majesty".

Volutantarism does not work well. It is not efficient. Do they use voluntaryism in the military, fire dpt or police? No there is a chain of command. Everything exists for a reason.

Originally posted by EarthCitizen07
reply to post by eLPresidente

 

Fascism is national socialism. Where do people see national socialism in america or anywhere else for that matter?

In fact we have the complete opposite today. We have international capitalism run by the bilderbergers who meet at bohemian grove to plot their next conspiracy. Are you a fan of Alex Jones or what? Check him out when you get a chance.

Fascism is the most widely abused generic(one size fits all) insult. Fascism was popular because it done away with the european monarchies. If not for fascists we would still call people like Obama "your majesty".

Volutantarism does not work well. It is not efficient. Do they use voluntaryism in the military, fire dpt or police? No there is a chain of command. Everything exists for a reason.

You are showing that you don't really know how voluntaryism works.

When you join the military or anything else with chain of command or supervision, you sign a contract or agree to certain terms or face certain consequence. Do you know what contracts are? It is one of the backbones of the free market.

Are we free men? do free men not have the absolute right to operate in life without force?

One last time,

Voluntary acts > force. This simple 'formula' cannot be argued.

Originally posted by lunatux
You libertarians are going to be the death of the United States.

Not really. Mismanaged statism is going to bring the death of america. I would rather have libertarians running america than democrats or republicans. At least they want less foreign military bases around the world and less military interventions. They also want to do away with the IRS or Federal Reserve. The IRS/FED is responsible for the corporate bailouts, the wars and the national security "dictatorship".

Originally posted by EarthCitizen07

Originally posted by lunatux
You libertarians are going to be the death of the United States.

Not really. Mismanaged statism is going to bring the death of america. I would rather have libertarians running america than democrats or republicans. At least they want less foreign military bases around the world and less military interventions. They also want to do away with the IRS or Federal Reserve. The IRS/FED is responsible for the corporate bailouts, the wars and the national security "dictatorship".

Thank You. I like how you are generally reasonable and not a troll

Originally posted by eLPresidente

Originally posted by EarthCitizen07

Originally posted by lunatux
You libertarians are going to be the death of the United States.

Not really. Mismanaged statism is going to bring the death of america. I would rather have libertarians running america than democrats or republicans. At least they want less foreign military bases around the world and less military interventions. They also want to do away with the IRS or Federal Reserve. The IRS/FED is responsible for the corporate bailouts, the wars and the national security "dictatorship".

Thank You. I like how you are generally reasonable and not a troll

I got really upset when gary johnson only got .99% of the total vote. Not to mention the smear campaign against ron paul within his own party mind you. The republican party has been hijacked by the neo-conservatives who worship zionism, globalism and wars.

But the point is there are many parties to choose from: green, constitution, libertarian, democrat, republican, justice, swpusa, spusa, cpusa, and many independants.

Originally posted by eLPresidente

Originally posted by EarthCitizen07
reply to post by eLPresidente

 

Fascism is national socialism. Where do people see national socialism in america or anywhere else for that matter?

In fact we have the complete opposite today. We have international capitalism run by the bilderbergers who meet at bohemian grove to plot their next conspiracy. Are you a fan of Alex Jones or what? Check him out when you get a chance.

Fascism is the most widely abused generic(one size fits all) insult. Fascism was popular because it done away with the european monarchies. If not for fascists we would still call people like Obama "your majesty".

Volutantarism does not work well. It is not efficient. Do they use voluntaryism in the military, fire dpt or police? No there is a chain of command. Everything exists for a reason.

You are showing that you don't really know how voluntaryism works.

When you join the military or anything else with chain of command or supervision, you sign a contract or agree to certain terms or face certain consequence. Do you know what contracts are? It is one of the backbones of the free market.

Are we free men? do free men not have the absolute right to operate in life without force?

One last time,

Voluntary acts > force. This simple 'formula' cannot be argued.

edit on 11-4-2013 by eLPresidente because: (no reason given)

edit on 11-4-2013 by eLPresidente because: (no reason given)

You are correct in that we are NOT free men. Does freedom really exist in absolute terms? Is anything really absolute anyway? We are slaves of the bilderbergers and black occultists of babylon who have plenty of money and worship satan/lucifer.

If you like the truth we can discuss this further, but we will go off-topic. My advice for republicans of the old era is simple. GET RID OF THE NEO-CONSERVATIVES. There is no other way. The media whores will never allow small parties to ever win in america.

In countries with parliamentary systems it is easier, but even there is the perpetual duopoly. This does NOT happen by chance. Disinfo is the best weapon. The best slave is one who does not know he/she is a slave to the system.

Young people are apathetic for a reason. We don't see the point of dedicating ourselves to a cause where the leader would be assassinated and police crush the movement in its tracks.

reply to post by eLPresidente


And suppose you decide to abrogate your duties under contract at the highest moment of crisis when you most need to fulfill your contractual obligation? What then? Does someone wave their finger in your face and say "Bad girl/boy"?