Protestant disinfo debunked-Catholics are also Christians

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posted on Apr, 25 2013 @ 09:52 AM
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Originally posted by adjensen

Originally posted by truejew

Originally posted by NOTurTypical
You can learn about all the REAL persecution happening to Christians all around the world every day! Some 150,000/year are murdered.

That's real persecution, not name-calling. What a joke.


John Calvin did not just "name call" at michael servetus.

Yeah. 150,000 Christians killed in persecutions today, compared to one guy 500 years ago, when they'd burn you at the stake for disagreeing with almost anything, great comparison.


Your fear of persecution is rooted in some misplaced delusion of grandeur -- your theology falls apart on its own, no Christian is ever going to kill you for it.


Less numbers does not make murder ok.




posted on Apr, 25 2013 @ 10:11 AM
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Originally posted by truejew

Originally posted by adjensen

Originally posted by truejew

Originally posted by NOTurTypical
You can learn about all the REAL persecution happening to Christians all around the world every day! Some 150,000/year are murdered.

That's real persecution, not name-calling. What a joke.


John Calvin did not just "name call" at michael servetus.

Yeah. 150,000 Christians killed in persecutions today, compared to one guy 500 years ago, when they'd burn you at the stake for disagreeing with almost anything, great comparison.


Your fear of persecution is rooted in some misplaced delusion of grandeur -- your theology falls apart on its own, no Christian is ever going to kill you for it.


Less numbers does not make murder ok.

What does that have to do with anything? As I said, when Servetus was killed, people were being killed over whether infant baptism was valid. That is hardly the state of the world today, and there is zero indication that the Apostolic Oneness movement will ever be persecuted by anybody, unless it is done as part of a general persecution of the church by a currently non-existant secular authority, and even then you'd be picked on for faith in Christ (or what passes for Christ for you,) not because of your unorthodox beliefs.

You might enjoy fantasizing about your little group becoming an enemy of the Roman Catholic or Protestant churches, but there is absolutely no basis for that, any more than there is any basis for the SDA adherents' belief that they'll be forced to worship on Sunday, under pain of death.



posted on Apr, 25 2013 @ 10:20 AM
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reply to post by adjensen
 

Tribulation of the Church is in Scripture.
edit on 25-4-2013 by truejew because: (no reason given)



posted on Apr, 25 2013 @ 10:34 AM
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Originally posted by truejew
reply to post by adjensen
 

Tribulation of the Church is in Scripture.

It is, indeed, hence the speculation that all Christians will see persecution by a secular government which currently does not exist.

Believing that your little group is the "true church" and will be systematically persecuted by a theocracy is delusional, on a par with the "forced Sunday worship" crowd.



posted on Apr, 25 2013 @ 10:45 AM
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Originally posted by adjensen

Originally posted by truejew
reply to post by adjensen
 

Tribulation of the Church is in Scripture.

It is, indeed, hence the speculation that all Christians will see persecution by a secular government which currently does not exist.

Believing that your little group is the "true church" and will be systematically persecuted by a theocracy is delusional, on a par with the "forced Sunday worship" crowd.


I will leave you to your errors.



posted on Apr, 25 2013 @ 09:26 PM
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Originally posted by truejew

Originally posted by NOTurTypical
reply to post by truejew
 



I already answered that. The same hate is there. All that is holding it back is the laws.


And my point was that there is nothing holding back persecution of Christians today. 150,000 per year are murdered for their testimony of Christ in this present age. Visit WWW.persecution.org sometime.



So you teach the tribulation will be no different than it is today?


No I don't.

But we aren't in the tribulation today either.



posted on Apr, 25 2013 @ 09:31 PM
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Originally posted by NOTurTypical

Originally posted by truejew

Originally posted by NOTurTypical
reply to post by truejew
 



I already answered that. The same hate is there. All that is holding it back is the laws.


And my point was that there is nothing holding back persecution of Christians today. 150,000 per year are murdered for their testimony of Christ in this present age. Visit WWW.persecution.org sometime.



So you teach the tribulation will be no different than it is today?


No I don't.

But we aren't in the tribulation today either.


We will be.



posted on Apr, 25 2013 @ 09:40 PM
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reply to post by truejew
 


Again..

WHAT DOES THAT OR THE OTHER STUFF HAVE TO DO WITH TODAY?

You have ancient church history covered, and the future for the elect covered, do you have anything to back up this persecution you said you guys are experiencing today?



posted on Apr, 25 2013 @ 10:50 PM
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Originally posted by adjensen

Originally posted by truejew
reply to post by adjensen
 

Tribulation of the Church is in Scripture.

It is, indeed, hence the speculation that all Christians will see persecution by a secular government which currently does not exist.

Believing that your little group is the "true church" and will be systematically persecuted by a theocracy is delusional, on a par with the "forced Sunday worship" crowd.


I have the strange feeling that any "childreds" forced into a sunday school beaucracy will presumably murder its parents, or the offending churchism that being the one across the street with the good looking gals. There is no TRUE church just validations of plagerisms money machines using scripture to justify an existance; any clown at any pulpit that has vocal skills and a decent choir will rule the block, FRANCHISED is even better, just like a McDonalds, one Babtist Church goes down, another springs up like a weed in a vacant lot next door.
edit on 25-4-2013 by vethumanbeing because: (no reason given)



posted on Apr, 26 2013 @ 07:54 PM
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Originally posted by NOTurTypical
reply to post by truejew
 


Again..

WHAT DOES THAT OR THE OTHER STUFF HAVE TO DO WITH TODAY?

You have ancient church history covered, and the future for the elect covered, do you have anything to back up this persecution you said you guys are experiencing today?



Hate that has been there in the past and will be there in the future is still there today. It is just being held back currently by laws.

Yelling is not necessary.



posted on Apr, 26 2013 @ 08:44 PM
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Originally posted by truejew
Hate that has been there in the past and will be there in the future is still there today. It is just being held back currently by laws.

You do realize the difference between criticism and persecution, right?

Are you claiming that you are being persecuted on ATS because no one agrees with you and pokes holes in your theology?



posted on Apr, 26 2013 @ 09:24 PM
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Originally posted by truejew

Originally posted by NOTurTypical
reply to post by truejew
 


Again..

WHAT DOES THAT OR THE OTHER STUFF HAVE TO DO WITH TODAY?

You have ancient church history covered, and the future for the elect covered, do you have anything to back up this persecution you said you guys are experiencing today?



Hate that has been there in the past and will be there in the future is still there today. It is just being held back currently by laws.

Yelling is not necessary.


So you Apostolic/Oneness chaps aren't being persecuted. There is REAL persecution goin on around the world every day. 150,000 Christians are murdered yearly. I was yelling and hoping to get your attention. You said you get persecuted, I said you didn't nor do you guys. Then you pointed to the 16th century, which isn't today, then you pointed to the future during the tribulation, which likewise isn't today.

Until you're being imprisoned, beaten, or murdered for your faith don't dare claim persecution. It's extremely offensive considering Christians really are enduring those things in the Name of Christ.
edit on 26-4-2013 by NOTurTypical because: (no reason given)



posted on Apr, 27 2013 @ 03:50 AM
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Originally posted by adjensen

Originally posted by truejew
Hate that has been there in the past and will be there in the future is still there today. It is just being held back currently by laws.

You do realize the difference between criticism and persecution, right?

Are you claiming that you are being persecuted on ATS because no one agrees with you and pokes holes in your theology?



No one has poked holes in the theology that I teach.

And I said nothing about ATS. I was speaking on why I advise Christians to leave Catholic and Protestant churches.

Even God says...

Revelation 18:4 KJV
[4] And I heard another voice from heaven, saying, Come out of her, my people, that ye be not partakers of her sins, and that ye receive not of her plagues.
edit on 27-4-2013 by truejew because: (no reason given)



posted on Apr, 27 2013 @ 04:02 AM
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Originally posted by NOTurTypical

Originally posted by truejew

Originally posted by NOTurTypical
reply to post by truejew
 


Again..

WHAT DOES THAT OR THE OTHER STUFF HAVE TO DO WITH TODAY?

You have ancient church history covered, and the future for the elect covered, do you have anything to back up this persecution you said you guys are experiencing today?



Hate that has been there in the past and will be there in the future is still there today. It is just being held back currently by laws.

Yelling is not necessary.


So you Apostolic/Oneness chaps aren't being persecuted. There is REAL persecution goin on around the world every day. 150,000 Christians are murdered yearly. I was yelling and hoping to get your attention. You said you get persecuted, I said you didn't nor do you guys. Then you pointed to the 16th century, which isn't today, then you pointed to the future during the tribulation, which likewise isn't today.

Until you're being imprisoned, beaten, or murdered for your faith don't dare claim persecution. It's extremely offensive considering Christians really are enduring those things in the Name of Christ.
edit on 26-4-2013 by NOTurTypical because: (no reason given)


Do you expect me to believe that none of those 150,000 are Apostolic? Also, persecution includes more than murders.



posted on Apr, 27 2013 @ 09:58 AM
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reply to post by truejew
 


I know it includes more than murders, earlier I mentioned beatings and imprisonment. Maybe Apostolic/Oneness folk are being martyred, but it certainly isn't happening in Catholic or Protestant churches like you claimed earlier.



posted on Apr, 27 2013 @ 11:02 AM
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Originally posted by truejew

Originally posted by adjensen
Are you claiming that you are being persecuted on ATS because no one agrees with you and pokes holes in your theology?



No one has poked holes in the theology that I teach.

Baloney. Every logical criticism of your theology has been met with either emotionalism or a bland "That isn't what we teach", even though it's exactly what you said you did. Either you have a fluid theology that changes, depending on what you want it to be, or you have no idea what you're talking about and should not be "teaching" anyone.

Among your outstanding theological failures:
It is unBiblical for women to teach

God will not allow someone to die until they've had a "legitimate" baptism

If you don't speak God's name correctly, he doesn't know you're talking to him

Why were three distinct persons at Jesus' baptism if there is no Trinity

We could, of course, add to that your claim that calling someone a "cultist" is deeply offensive to you, despite your frequent application of the word to others, your defense of Gary Reckart's unChristian elitism, arrogance and slander of others, as well as the general failures of non-Trinitarian theology, but you've enough on your plate with the four I've listed.

Kindly do not respond to any of those in this thread -- I have thoughtfully provided you with links to the original threads to reply to and, as always, I am open to a structured debate on any of them in the ATS Debate forum, judged by impartial evaluators.

edit on 27-4-2013 by adjensen because: (no reason given)



posted on Apr, 28 2013 @ 01:05 PM
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Originally posted by NOTurTypical
reply to post by truejew
 


I know it includes more than murders, earlier I mentioned beatings and imprisonment. Maybe Apostolic/Oneness folk are being martyred, but it certainly isn't happening in Catholic or Protestant churches like you claimed earlier.



I did not claim that it is currently happening. I have said that it has happened in the past, will happen in the future, and that the hate that has caused it in the past is still there.



posted on Apr, 28 2013 @ 01:37 PM
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Originally posted by truejew

Originally posted by NOTurTypical
reply to post by truejew
 


I know it includes more than murders, earlier I mentioned beatings and imprisonment. Maybe Apostolic/Oneness folk are being martyred, but it certainly isn't happening in Catholic or Protestant churches like you claimed earlier.



I did not claim that it is currently happening. I have said that it has happened in the past, will happen in the future, and that the hate that has caused it in the past is still there.



Now you're being dishonest. The verbs you used about persecution in this post below are present-tense verbs:




That is an example. A person can still attend a Catholic/Protestant Church and not be Catholic/Protestant in faith. There is nothing in the Bible that says what type of church you attend saves you. However I would recommend they leave due to the persecution they would receive by the others.



posted on Apr, 28 2013 @ 02:02 PM
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Originally posted by adjensen

Baloney. Every logical criticism of your theology has been met with either emotionalism


The only "emotion" I've shown has been in response to your repeated hate, disrespect, lies, slander, and twisting of what I say. I have actually been very patient with you considering all the lies and slander you have said against me.


Originally posted by adjensen

or a bland "That isn't what we teach", even though it's exactly what you said you did.


You have a habit of twisting my words to make them into what you want them to mean.


Let's take a look at your idea of my theological failures.


Originally posted by adjensen

Among your outstanding theological failures:
It is unBiblical for women to teach


Let's look at the evidence... 0 female priests... 0 female prophets... 0 female apostles... You would think if females were called by God to preach, there would at least be one in one of those groups. Plus even your Catholic Church has been against female priests until fairly recently.


Originally posted by adjensen

God will not allow someone to die until they've had a "legitimate" baptism


A case of you twisting my words. What I said, was in the unlikely case that you brought up of someone deciding to get baptized and dying before they had a chance to get baptized, that God has the power to hold off the death or provide water till the person has the opportunity, not eternally as you claim.


Originally posted by adjensen

If you don't speak God's name correctly, he doesn't know you're talking to him


What I was saying is if you call on the name of another god, God is not likely to answer.


Originally posted by adjensen

Why were three distinct persons at Jesus' baptism if there is no Trinity


There are not three distinct gods at Jesus's baptism. There is one God and one man Jesus Christ.


Originally posted by adjensen

We could, of course, add to that your claim that calling someone a "cultist" is deeply offensive to you, despite your frequent application of the word to others,


Calling me a cultist when I am not is very offensive to me. Calling someone a cultist who is a cultist is not. Funny how your idea of frequent is three occasions out of around 1200 posts.



posted on Apr, 28 2013 @ 02:07 PM
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Originally posted by NOTurTypical

Originally posted by truejew

Originally posted by NOTurTypical
reply to post by truejew
 


I know it includes more than murders, earlier I mentioned beatings and imprisonment. Maybe Apostolic/Oneness folk are being martyred, but it certainly isn't happening in Catholic or Protestant churches like you claimed earlier.



I did not claim that it is currently happening. I have said that it has happened in the past, will happen in the future, and that the hate that has caused it in the past is still there.



Now you're being dishonest. The verbs you used about persecution in this post below are present-tense verbs:




That is an example. A person can still attend a Catholic/Protestant Church and not be Catholic/Protestant in faith. There is nothing in the Bible that says what type of church you attend saves you. However I would recommend they leave due to the persecution they would receive by the others.





I never claimed to be an expert of the English language. Therefore there is no dishonesty.





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