I Need a Muslim (or Somebody) to Make This News Understandable and Acceptable.

reply to post by winofiend

Dear winofiend,

There have been several very thoughtful posts in this thread and I am grateful to everyone, but yours hit a special note with me.

Why no concerted effort to silence the charlatans at every chance, they who speak on your behalf with words that go against your core? they claim the same god as you. Yet any slanderous libel from a non muslim causes world wide calamity

I've wondered that myself. Perhaps the belief in the Muslim world is that there are bad Moslems and good Moslems. The bad ones will be identified if necessary, but even a bad Moslem is better than a good infidel. That means a non-Moslem must never condemn or offend any Moslem. If a Moslem should ever be considered to be fit for punishment it will not be because an infidel complained, because that would give the infidel power over a Moslem, which is unacceptable.

Because any Moslem is better than the best infidel, all of Islam must stand up against any criticism directed against any of them, but in their own affairs one group may call the other group corrupt, or misled, or whatever the current theological term of abuse is. Maybe it's a little like Baptists, Methodists, and Atheists. The Baptists and Methodists may have their fights and call each other names, but they both believe Atheists have absolutely nothing to say about anything.

I don't know if I'm right, but this seems to be on sort of the right track. I apologize for my sloppy writing, but I'm having trouble organizing it all.

With respect,
Charles1952

I'm a Muslim I'm telling you honestly Saudi Arabian's brand of Islam [[Ahluh Sunna Wal Jama'ah]] as what they call them ,means the group who follows prophetic way, it is not a prophetic way , it is a way they have invented themselves,. they are a Satanic Cult. because there is no prophetic way .how can there be a Prophetic way ?.. God sent messengers to give God's Message only, not to promote their own agenda ... Saudi muftis are saying Prophet Mohammed has invented his own ways and own agendas too, and it is call his '' Sunna'' how can it be?.. it is an absolute lie against GOD and against Prophet Mohammed. there is God's way only. no other way.

Churches are the places where GOD's name has been glorifying since the beginning. Since GOD says not to abuse the places even where GOD's name has not been mentioned. so how can GOD say to destroy the Places where GOD's name is being glorified day and night?.. See verse 108 : Sura 6 Quran

[ Revile not ye those whom they call upon besides God, lest they out of spite revile God in their ignorance.]

somebody has to shoot these Saudi hooligans

reply to post by charles1952


A few things -

1 I do, from time to time question the RT. But, I do from time to time question most sources - so take it for what you will. No source lies all the time. Most sources lie some of the time.

2. It *was" covered in a few American sources.. Washing ton Post - Saudi’s top sheikh: ‘Necessary to destroy all churches’, Glenn Beck - Grand Mufti of Saudi Arabia: It Is ‘Necessary to Destroy All the Churches of the Region, The Atlantic - 'Destroy All the Churches': Saudi Arabia's Poor Treatment of Christians

3. Story was from Mar 2012 - but it didn't generate a huge amount of hub-bub. The point that they largely get an undeserved free pass on all manner of things a valid one. Its because they are a US ally and supply oil that they get away with things IMO.

4. Sorry, I can't make it understandable or acceptable. All religions have their nuts - and this guy is nuts.

reply to post by charles1952


It's quite simple really... Saudi Arabia is a Theocratic Monarchy where Islam is the law of the land. Any other religion is not accepted. Saudi Arabia also houses two of the most holiest places for Islam, Mecca and Medina.

Grand Mufti's have often been controversial figures: en.wikipedia.org...

Personally I find most godbotherers to be complete baket-cases, regardless of their faith.....Delusion and irrationality are non-denominational!

Thank you all for your help, but this brings up a new problem. I'm getting the impression that Saudi Arabia has the "nutter" wing of Islam. If I'm wrong, correct me.

The vast majority of the people of Saudi Arabia are Sunni Muslims. Islam is the established religion, and as such its institutions receive government support.

countrystudies.us...

If that's true, then the Sunnis are the problem, but:

A study conducted by the Pew Research Center in 2010 and released January 2011 found that there are 1.62 billion Muslims around the world, and it is estimated that the Sunni population is between 75% and 90%.

So, shouldn't I think that the problem is that 75-90% of the world's Muslims belong to the "nutter" wing?

Honestly, I'm grateful for the help I've received so far and I have no intention to condemn. This is my chance to learn. Please keep teaching me.

The group most assosciated with extremism is a small part of a tiny subsection of Sunni Islam; the Salafis: en.wikipedia.org...

Note that the Grand Mufti of Jerusalem I linked to in the previous post (who raised troops for the Waffen SS) was heavily influenced by Salafi thinking (& Hitler of course).

reply to post by squarehead666

Dear squarehead666,

Thanks for the lesson and the link. Do you think there is anyone outside of Islam who understands all of that? (I suspect the vast majority of Moslems don't either.)

There seems to be the belief that only a few are Salafis, but that it is the fastest growing Islamic movement. There also seems to be disagreement over what groups and people are actually Salfis, and even what Salafism means.

Please extend your patience to one more foolish question. If "active" or "violent" Salafis are generally seen as somewhat heretical (and provide the rest of the world with a very bad impression of Islam), and they are a very small minority, can't the Islamic governments control them? Without meaning to offend, they seem to be able to control everybody else.

With respect,
Charles1952

In answer to your first question.....I'm a pagan.

As for the rest, it seems to me that there is a desire in the west to portray Islam as a threat, so naturally more attention is focussed on extremist groups.

I am glad to see that we have some Muslims here who proclaim their disgust at the vile extremism that appears to be common in the middle east.

How does that comment have any relevance whatsoever?

Vileness too is nondenominational.

reply to post by squarehead666

Dear squarehead666,

My writing often fails to express my meaning. I see I've done it again, sorry.

I'm not sure your religion, or mine, affects the question much. (But if you want my opinion, there are many worse beliefs than Paganism.)

As for the rest, it seems to me that there is a desire in the west to portray Islam as a threat, so naturally more attention is focussed on extremist groups.

I'm willing to accept that for now, but surely Islamic governments understand that that is the West's situation. They must know that extremists are bad PR.

So why not have the governments announce to the world, through the UN, or the world press that Muslim extremists do not represent their religion or their country? Further, that those governments will make serious efforts to arrest extremists, close down their movements, and have transparent trials and punishments for those found guilty of terroristic acts.

I don't see how that could be bad for anyone.

With respect,
Charles1952

I'm pretty sure Moslem leaders have been saying exactly that non-stop since 9/11.

Admittedly some of them have also been funding the extremists, but they are hardly alone in that are they.....Britain and France are bending over backwards to arm extremist groups in Syria.

We did the same in Libya and now Al-Qaeda in the Islamic Maghreb are suddenly armed to the teeth and very publically attacking oil installations.....However did that happen?

PS - I also have a great affection for the works of Aleister Crowley.....Do you still like me now?

reply to post by squarehead666

Dear squarehead666,

PS - I also have a great affection for the works of Aleister Crowley.....Do you still like me now?

I sort of thought the "666" was not a random selection of numbers. I don't have any reason not to like you. The internet isn't the best place to gather accurate impressions of others, but I wouldn't mind sitting down to beer and (whatever you call "fish and chips") with you. Why not? Especially if I can talk you into paying.

I'm pretty sure Moslem leaders have been saying exactly that non-stop since 9/11.

You may be right, I don't know. I haven't run across any evidence one way or the other that they are serious about stopping those activities, but it's possible. I would have thought that the press would have reported it constantly during the Bush days to make him look bad. Actually, I would think they would be reporting it now, if just to show that Obama has the situation well in hand and the Israelis are over-reacting.

Admittedly some of them have also been funding the extremists, but they are hardly alone in that are they.....Britain and France are bending over backwards to arm extremist groups in Syria.

We did the same in Libya and now Al-Qaeda in the Islamic Maghreb are suddenly armed to the teeth and very publically attacking oil installations.....However did that happen?

Although I disagree with the methods used in the last few years to fight extremists and create a stable Mid-East, I'd like to hope that that was their goal, no matter how poorly conceived. I'm the first to charge the current administration with a vague and feckless Middle-East policy. Egypt and Libya, as you point out, are examples. As was the abandonment of the "Green Revolution" in Iran.

But aren't the Islamic countries in a better position to put a stop to the violence? There's the funding you mentioned, but they also allow bases of operation, and religious tolerance of their principles.

With respect,
Charles1952

How is it that Islam, Christianity and Jewish religion share the Old Testament. Pray to the same god but Muslims hate everyone. It is really poetic how much hate they have in them. They even hate of branches of Islam . It is really sad to see so much hate in them.

reply to post by Tattiio

How is it that Islam, Christianity and Jewish religion share the Old Testament.

Muslims accept the Old Testament prophets, but don't "share" the Old Testament.

Muslims hate everyone.

They don't.
And you seem to be assuming that Jews and Christians are also capable of hate.

Originally posted by SoEpic
I find this sad that there isn't outrage by Muslims about this.
I was raised a Christian and believe in a god(though I rarely go to church)and I would be outraged if there was destruction of all places of worship of all religions apart from my own - its so sad and it always seems to be the same religion spreading hatred and destruction.
I understand that there are always "crazies" in any religion but people from that religion speak out about it, they don't remain silent.
Are there any Muslims who are embarrassed and ashamed of this? Would you do anything to try and stop it and change people's views? Would you post on Facebook for example about how wrong it is? I would if it was Christianity wanting to destroy mosques in my country
And for the record I have some Muslim friends along with friends of many other faiths- everybody has a right to worship their own religion.

edit on 6-4-2013 by SoEpic because: To add

edit on 6-4-2013 by SoEpic because: To add

no. everyone DOES NOT have a right to worship their own religion. rights are granted by others who agree with those rights. when there are enough people, or person(s) who disagree with those rights...they are gone. thousands of years of actual history proves this over and over.

reply to post by newincubus


I believe if Muslims knew the history of Saudi Arabia and how they were the tool of the British, they would reject this brand of Islam.
Wahabi was a very poor scholar, but the House of Saud liked the implications of his teaching as it allowed them to justify attacking fellow Muslims. With the help of the British, they consolidated most of the Arabian penninsula.

Lindsey Williams says he was told by the "Elites" that after Syria, Saudia Arabia was next for revolution. This will drive oil prices very high. He said that Syria was taking much longer than originally planned.

I dunno... has some plausibility...

There is nothing to hide, I'm strongly against homosexuals, I think that it's extremely wrong and so do many others that aren't even muslim. I don't want to argue on why it's wrong because I think you can figure it out for yourselves. Rt is full of bull#, The only reason I read it because I want to know what lies that are being made up every day. I think the opposite and it's most often correct.

When your a devoted Muslim... to the very core of your being your a complete jerk. It's in the rule book that you must hate everyone and you must hate everything that is not Islamic. There is nothing more to say