Originally posted by Logos23
Originally posted by colbe
We atone for our sins here by our sufferings, acts of love and prayers said. If not completed here, we make reparation over the veil in
So why did God bother sending Jesus to live on earth and die on the cross?...by your account it seem's we didn't need him.....
Logo, thanks for your question....first,
What happened to your avatar pic? The other one was so cute, was that you?
Our Lord redeemed mankind, He OPENED Heaven. Redemption and justification are two different things. God is perfectly just, He forgives us our sins
when we repent of our sins and confess them...STILL, there reparation to be made for our sins, confessed and unconfessed. Similar to breaking the
neighbors window, you tell them, say you're sorry AND you must replace it. Understand too...
Everyone in Purgatory has been judged for Heaven, they died in the state of grace, they ALREADY confessed their mortal sins to God BEFORE death. The
atonement for those confessed sins may not of been completed
before they died. This is why confession is so important, regular Confession to God of your mortal sins. Catholics have to do more, they must go to
We ATONE for our sins here by our crosses, sufferings, loving acts and prayers said and if not completed before we die, you do it over the veil in
Purgatory. Here, better explained, read this, it's not too long. I tell you, the heresy of Jesus did it all on the Cross, "imputed" His perfect
sacrifice and righteousness onto us, done deal, we are saved is a big fat lie. You remember in Revelation, it says, nothing unholy enters Heaven, it
= = =
. ""The doctrine [of purgatory] can be stated briefly. Purgatory is a state of purification, where the soul that has fully repented of its sins
but has not fully expiated them has removed from itself the last elements of uncleanliness
. In purgatory all remaining love of self is
transformed into love love of God. At death one's soul goes to heaven, if it is completely fit for heaven; to purgatory, if it is not quite fit for
heaven, but not worthy of condemnation; or to hell, if it is completely unfit for heaven. Purgatory is a temporary state. Everyone who enters it will
get to heaven, and, after the last soul leaves purgatory for heaven, purgatory will cease to exist. There will remain only heaven and hell." (Karl
Keating, Catholicism and Fundamentalism)
In order to understand the point of purgatory, we need to understand the difference between salvation and sanctification on the one hand, and between
punishment and atonement on the other. Salvation means being spared from damnation: we are saved from Hellfire. But being saved from Hell is not the
same as being worthy of heaven—nor of being "ready" to enter this state. Salvation may come from grace, through faith—but heaven is for the
holy. Merely wishing to be good, or indeed even trying to be good, does not make us actually good; we may strive to become pure while yet being
Moreover, when we wrong another person, we have a need to atone for that wrongdoing. This may be seen by way of how people once apologized: "I am
sorry for doing X, how can I make this up to you?" This apology has two parts to it, a confession (I did X), and a first attempt at atonement. What
can we do to make the wrong right? The atonement itself may often involve some sacrifice—which generally means some small suffering—on our part.
We have, in other words, a sense of justice which kicks in even if the other person forgives us, so that even if they tell us that it is small matter
to which we ought give no further thought, we might persist in asking if there is anything we can do for them to "make it better."
Salvation is a work of God's Own mercy for us, but true mercy pre-supposes justice. A part of that justice—indeed, the crucial part—was Christ's
own passion, His suffering and death. This satisfied the main requirement of justice, an infinite sacrifice to make reparation for an infinite
offense. Mercy is thus extended to us if we will accept it.
However, Christ's death and victory over death did not remove all suffering from the world. We can be saved from the worst punishment due to
sin—spiritual death, that is, Hell; but there are also temporal effects of sin, effects which are only temporary. We can still suffer from injury or
sickness or sadness, and we will all die eventually. These sufferings are for us an opportunity to bind our own suffering to Christ's to "help"
atone for our own sins....