America- Care to Explain? version- Education System

So as the title says, America- not Americans, so this is not meant to be directed at the people, but an eye opening little image none the less. I happen to live in Canada, so it's no different here, when you need assistance my local university, you don't go to student services, the signs explicitly say "Client Services". So the education system is for many a complete sham, my significant other happens to be getting her PHD currently, and I know the degree will serve our future, for her personal growth and economic growth alike. But a $30,000 undergrad is most likely going to lead to a dead end. That my opinion.

Let's hear about where you are from, have you gone to a post secondary institution? Is it free? Did you get the job you always dreamed of? did your highschool teachers teachers tell you if you didn't go to university you'd most likely be a bum?




Yes its from 9gag... there is something useful there afterall, who knew.

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This will be nice to have at a family meeting of why I consider leaving this country...

I'm one of the few who graduated with a degree, immediately got a job in my field with good pay, and am pretty close to paying off my student loans, while also paying off a house and car.

I'll never understand for the life of me why the government doesn't put any focus into education. Specifically, higher education. It seems like they could cut 0.5% of funding across the board and it would be enough to send everybody who's willing through a university program.

If we don't figure out something pretty soon, China will be the one outsourcing #ty jobs to American sweat shops to fill their ChinaMart stores.

reply to post by el1jah


I got engineers masters for free. Currently doing double major (economy&psychology) for free.
It is not easy to start life after university, especially in current economics situation. Although I managed to get a good job and currently I am happy with it (3x the average salary of the country straight out of university)

Due to having no loans, I have already managed to invest quite a lot and put some money aside. Soon I am planning on starting a company, so far I am extremely satisfied with the education I got.

Sciences (especially engineering, IT) are usually safe bet, although liberal sciences & economy have it tough, as after finishing they tend to have no real skills and struggle finding a job. Somehow that should be taken care of, I believe. There are already strong campaigns in support of engineering and IT education though.

Yes, highschool teachers tell that no-university=potential member of the future unemployment army As so many people have higher education, the overall qualification tends to move towards masters. Bachelors is often not enough for getting a good job.

The comics explained very well, how I and actually many-many Europeans see US higher education like. US is a country with extreme influence on the world and currently it seems as they are simply digging a grave for themselves with the overall dumbing down. It could overally affect the world very badly. In bad economical times education is the key to invest in. It always is, as the future comes from the current generation. I can not imagine how the unemployment problems will be solved, when the technology advances and more and more jobs need technical education.Educated society is needed for the country to do well in the future.

I'm going to start prepping my grandchildren on starting a small business instead of going to college. For the thirty grand out of pocket at college they can start a business WTF is wrong with people nowadays. Get rid of big business in retail.

reply to post by el1jah


From America . . . Have a Post Secondary (Bachelor's) degree. Never worked in the field I have a degree in (Education) because the pay and bureaucracy sucked. Left school with less than 6k in loan debt because I also worked full time and deejay'd for cash, while going to school full time. Paid off my loan debt the first year out of college. However, costs have skyrocketed since the 90's and a 4 year private institution cost about 60k for four years, currently. I don't have any debt and I am financially secure.

The reason America doesn't fund education like some European and Asian models . . . America doesn't want to educate it's population. Education leads to informed voting, less reliance on the media for information, critical thinking skills, better health habits, the ability to earn, save, and manage your finances without the help of the government.

Also, an undeducated citizenry is easier to manipulate, fool, control, instill fear, and prone to superstition.

Great graphic, BTW . . . I'm stealing it.

reply to post by Cabin


I agree. If you're not going for a bachelor of science, you're really playing against the odds upon graduation. As more and more manual labor and trade skills get replaced by machines, engineering and the sciences will be in even more demand than they are now.

On a side note, a lot of blame gets put on the economy and government for people not being able to find jobs out of college. Was there ever a time when art history and communication majors were getting nabbed up right and left out of college?

Originally posted by rickymouse
I'm going to start prepping my grandchildren on starting a small business instead of going to college. For the thirty grand out of pocket at college they can start a business WTF is wrong with people nowadays. Get rid of big business in retail.

There you go, this use to be the mindset of most families now it's send Johnny and Suzie to college. College that can't guaranteed their graduates anything but debt. What on Earth are people going to do as more jobs with large corporations evaporate into thin air? Smart families instill in their children the ability and desire to create their own employment.

reply to post by el1jah


>Insulting Americans for American Federal Government Policy

Seriously?

If you want to trash the people responsible for America's public educational system, you better start by insulting the bankers who destroyed our educational system on purpose.

Just saying is all....

reply to post by ErtaiNaGia

reply to post by Chai_An


I agree, starting your own business, specifically in the trades, are the safest bet for the time being. Until the system completely collapses, there will be a need for plumbers and electritians. Personally, I`ve gone into this field and started my own business, it`s working quite well for me, and it`s a pleasure to be around `people` rather than being part of a pyramid corporation. I`ve briefly worked for a number of multinational corporations, and let me tell you, work your self silly to prove yourself to your superiors and it gets you nowhere. On the contrary, if you prove yourself on a construction site, often you can see a raise after your first couple of weeks of work. Being your own boss, and treating your workers well, giving them what they deserve is priceless.

undergrad and graduate degrees. The price has gotten to un-imaginable levels. However, I have no trouble getting a job. Everyone looks at my MBA and immediately puts my resume to the top of the list. It only took me 14 days in December to get a job after I was laid off from a Green Energy Company.

Originally posted by TheNHK

That was brilliant, thank you for sharing!

Originally posted by ErtaiNaGia
reply to post by el1jah

 

>Insulting Americans for American Federal Government Policy

Seriously?

If you want to trash the people responsible for America's public educational system, you better start by insulting the bankers who destroyed our educational system on purpose.

Just saying is all....

To be honest, I believe American people have more role in the dumbing down than the government itself, as why does government start policies? Votes.

This is a problem in several countries. When the standars are set higher, many kids do not meet the requirements and their parents start whining about the system: They do not want to admit that their kids are lazy, instead they blame the system for their kids not getting by at school. They start questioning whether things are needed at all that kids learn at school, why would they need it? "I have never needed higher math, why my kid has learn it "."It is their right to choose subject they learn" and so on. I believe higher math and sciences should be involuntary for everybody. If you do not pass the bar, you are not good enough, simple. They already spend too much time on school things... All kinds of excuses come out.

We had standards risen and such problems came, as the weaker ones did not pass the bar anymore. Their parents started to protect them. Although 99% of those who did not pass were responsible for their failure, not the system. At the end lots of scandals come up and as we all know, government does not want such things as they are losing votes. That is why it is easier to choose the midway. Much less people start whining when their kids are doing without questioning whether their kids might be doing well, only because the system is so weak. At the end that does not lose votes. Votes are everything for parties and they try to think ahead, so that the current person in power would not destroy the name of the party, so that next elections would also be successful for the party

I find I need to not say too much on such things because I am an ex-pat, and that seems to upset people more than if I was simply a critical foriegner. Which is too bad because I am in a position to comprehend and know intimately the americna condition, and also have had the opportunity to have stepped outside it and known other.(intimately, not just as a tourist ). I sometimes instinctively behave like a prodigal son who can come back with new perspectives and ideas collected from afar. But I have learned through experience that it just is not welcome.

I have three kids, but I raised them in France, my third is heading into college next year and as we are enrolling him, he had a terrible announcement for me- the program and school he wants to enroll in, specializing in Physics and Chemistry, isn't free. It is harder to get in and there is a cost.
He acted afraid to tell me. I took a breath and told him whatever it is, we'll find a way. (thinking we could sell the house is need be....) and he says it's is 200 euros. (around 160 dollars). I bust out laughing!

I could not go to college, my mother beat it into my head repeatedly that I would not be able to because she could not afford it, because she went, and had too many loan debts to pay. When she died, she left nothing but her loan debts. I never dared to dream of getting a college education.

It just makes me so glad I have three kids with a higher education!!! They just had to get good enough grades and work hard enough, (the universities can be more competative to get in though).

What I find strange, now that I look back, is how so many crazy things like that, I just didn't question! It was just how life is, how it has always been, and any mention of different ways was waved off by me as necessarily an illusion- there is a trap to it.

I felt that way about universal medicine, as well as higher education. The easiest thing for me to assume back then was that the people must be drowing in taxes then. But one day, involved in debate on that with americnas on another forum, a woman in the midwest and I took out all our papers and calculated how much we pay monthly and yearly, in taxes + insurance. It turned out surprising- even I expected I pay more; but no, it turned out we both paid almost exactly the same.

But she also has to pay student loans, plus pay a deductable at the doctors and when she buys medicine.

That made it clear to me once and for all that the american people are victimized much more than most of them even know.

Then I went and started hanging out at a Conspiracy website instead.

America could do things like FREE education, but our tax dollars go to things that make Government and politicians money... like the prison system. You see, you send troops (that you pay minimum wage) over to Afghanistan to grow Opium (90% of the world's production since US invaded), then ship it back into the US and then people get locked up using it in their FOR PROFIT prison system.

You have to understand that in America, everything is a scam. If it's not being taxed, it's illegal and they will make money once you end up in their money generating cages. It doesn't matter how many lives are ruined in the process, greed and corruption are the holy grail in this country. And you could say "well that's the free market"... no, that's the corrupt crony capitalist market.

Healthcare? Scam. Welfare? Scam. Going to work? Scam. You can't breath in this country without paying Uncle Sam his cut. This is why OUR business gets shipped over to China. Government won't leave people the hell alone.

So would it be nice to have FREE education? Sure, but nothing is FREE in this world. It would end up being another scam. If you want a real solution to college education, simply let them compete. This is a FREE market isn't it? But see that would actually drive down tuition costs and do something good for this country. That's why it will never be done. If someone isn't making dirty money, it doesn't happen in America.

reply to post by Cabin


Cabin - where are you from? You've never said. How did you get to the USA to extend your higher education?

Public school in the USA is a joke. When you have kids that can't even read - out of highschool - going to "college'?

We need school vouchers - to give kids who want to learn something, the oppurtunity to actually get an education. The rest of the inner city high schools are for people wanting their kids to get a gov't check and be labeled as "disabled" - thus ensuring a gov't paycheck for life.

The union teachers - see the fiasco in Atlanta, GA - for proof of this.

reply to post by el1jah


It is all very simplistic really. You either pay for education through taxation (therefore you pay for it indirectly) or you pay for it out of your own pocket. Both approaches are correct and based on the culture and environment. As far as higher education goes, I favour the approach where a student has to contribute in some way. That may be unpopular, but I came out of university with a bit of debt, but went in making sure I studied a worthwhile degree to build a useful career out of.

For example, there are no world leading universities in Sweden, or rather the best Swedish University (the Karolinska Institute) is placed behind c. thirty US universities, according to some rankings freely available on the internet. I would rather pay for excellence than be subsidised for mediocrity.

Regards

Originally posted by Happy1
reply to post by Cabin

 

Cabin - where are you from? You've never said. How did you get to the USA to extend your higher education?

Public school in the USA is a joke. When you have kids that can't even read - out of highschool - going to "college'?

We need school vouchers - to give kids who want to learn something, the oppurtunity to actually get an education. The rest of the inner city high schools are for people wanting their kids to get a gov't check and be labeled as "disabled" - thus ensuring a gov't paycheck for life.

The union teachers - see the fiasco in Atlanta, GA - for proof of this.

It is hard to say where I am exactly from. My parents are Estonian, I am Finnish, I have never attended a Finnish school though, as my dad was working in multinational companies and we moved a lot. I have lived in several countries all through my life, different languages, different cultures. Although I believe overally it has benefitted me a lot.

I have not studied in USA yet, although planning. I have the sponsors for it and after I get finished my education here (have masters in engineering, currently getting bachelor in economics and psychology. I plan on doing my engineering PhD in some Ivy League college or MIT (still thinking about which one I will choose). Although plans can change, maybe I will decide for Masters in USA, although currently I definetely plan on going to America for a degree.

Although I have worked in USA for 4 months in 2008. I worked at educational field, so I managed to have a conversation about education with around 1500 people during these 4 months. I was amazed by the overally weak attitude towards education. I had taken a look at the local textbooks and seen how weak the system overally was, although most parents were very satisfied with their kids progress, although the kids were doing average in a a weak system. Too many people were not giving much thought on the quality of the education, as their kids were doing just fine. Round here most of these kids would not even pass the bar, even though they are getting good grades in their local schools. In math for example, things we learn in 5th grade come up in 9th grade or high school level in USA. I agree that on average (not all) public schools are a joke, despite the cots the higher education is not bad, I believe

One of the problems is that overally education has turned into business in USA. Textbooks cost extreme amounts compared to us, the cost of higher education is extreme. Universities seem to be like for-profit business, although they should be non-profit organisations. Everything is turned into money in the capitalist society. Many would argue, although USA is probably one of the most capitalistic societies. Univer

I also agree that the unions are weakening the educational system. Teachers are getting too much rights, so that even bad teachers can not get fired.

Overally the system has moved from quality to quantity because of the business and I personally believe something should be done with it.

Why I even care about USA? I believe USA has too much influence on the world. If USA hits the bottom financially, the same happens to Europe, as the financial systems are too connected. Even in 1929 US crisis turned into world crisis, same happened in 2008 and also in the futue. Being so influential country means having more responsibility over one´s actions as they also affect everybody else. So I hope USA overally manages to get back on track