Brits should not have a right to free speech, page 2

posted on Apr, 5 2013 @ 02:47 PM

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Originally posted by txinfidel
reply to post by BrokenCircles

Really? Because its not happened before in history has it?

The UK is open for the taking. Almost any nation could invade and have their way with you if it weren't for countries like the US having your backs.

Here we go ...

Keyboard warrior alert. This should get fruity.

HelenConway

posted on Apr, 5 2013 @ 02:52 PM

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Originally posted by txinfidel
reply to post by HelenConway

Again, this is not directed at you.

Its a counter argument for those across the pond who wish to tell people in the US that they shouldn't have a right that is guaranteed in our countries constitution.

Because we earned that right by kicking your bloody butts.

You kicked 'our ' butts ?

I think you will find it was the buts of my ancestors and ? yours - anyway, they were not fighting about the right to bear arms - they were fighting about money - taxation.

They wanted rid of the King and quite right too.

Frankly - I know the feeling ...

Most of the English / British in those early days were fighting other colonised English and French and a few others.

It was arguably an English civil war.

They wanted freedom - this has little to do with you wanting to carry a gun.

I know, I know the second amendment blah blah .. but the Americans of the 18th century were talking about a different world and the world they dreamed about when they signed the United States Declaration of Independence - was far removed from the United States that we have now.

I do not care of you carry a gun btw - but why do you need to ?

Maxatoria

posted on Apr, 5 2013 @ 02:54 PM

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Oh lordy....not this pile of bovine poop again

Different countries, different rules and accept it....what works in one place doesn't work in another just like flogging igloo's to texans as permanent structures and on the 2nd ammendment my personal view is "if you can keep the nutters away from the guns then enjoy lads and lasses (but dont be offended if they get confiscated when you come to visit here :p )"

JustMike

posted on Apr, 5 2013 @ 02:59 PM

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The following is my opinion as a member participating in this discussion.

reply to post by txinfidel

The right to bear arms within the US that you are concerned about is a US constitutional matter and is something that can only be decided by your courts and your elected representatives. That's the facts. People of other nations cannot decide the issue for you. But they still have the right to offer their opinions.

On ATS, people have a right to express their positive or negative opinions on any subject, in any thread. That right applies to all, without any regard for where they are from, what religion they might have, or what color skin they might happen to have. It's a right of mutual respect.

All they have to do is stay within the site's T&Cs. As long as they do that, and about 99.5% of the time people do, then they can freely have their say. If you don't agree with them, then that's fine and as long as you also stay within those same T&Cs, you have the right to express your disagreement as you wish.

You're doing that now. I don't agree with your opinion but if that's what you think, then fine. Think whatever you wish, but accept the fact that not everyone is going to agree with you and they have a right to say so.

When you say that people of another country shouldn't have a certain right because they argue against a certain right that you have, then it doesn't exactly put you on higher moral ground, does it?

Whatever might have happened in a war more than two centuries ago has absolutely nothing to do with it. If we argue on that "we beat you in a war" basis, we could deny the right of free speech to people of any nation that's lost a war against any of us, at any time. And if we do that, then where do you think that will lead?

It would lead us back into a past where very few had any rights at all.

Is that what you want?

As an ATS Staff Member, I will not moderate in threads such as this where I have participated as a member.

edit on 5/4/13 by JustMike because: (no reason given)

ANOK

posted on Apr, 5 2013 @ 03:03 PM

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reply to post by txinfidel

Typical American authoritarian mind set.

What is free speech really? The freedom to say what you want on an internet forum?

People act like free speech is something they are granted by the government, as if they wouldn't have free speech if not for their constitution. What a way for a government to passively tyrannize.

How would you enforce a ban on free speech? Do you have the resources to investigate, and hunt down, those evil criminal "Brits" who utter a word to two in opposition to your gun ownership?

Paranoia paradise.

sulaw

posted on Apr, 5 2013 @ 03:09 PM

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Originally posted by txinfidel
Why do I say this? Because a common theme on ATS is for some of them to but heads with us Americans who fought the british and won independence when they tried to take our guns away.

Yet some still persist that we should not have a right to bear arms. Even though they live in another country across the pond and have no clue as to the ways of American life.

Brits, you should not have a right to free speech, because all you do with your free speech is criticize americans over our right to bear arms, which is the only reason you or anyone else for that matter still has a right to free speech.

I say that you brits should relinquish your right to free speech just as you did your right to bear arms. Or just butt out.

Fair enough?

Hrmmmm...... Hrmmmmm..... I see..... I see..... While I am an American and I hear the Anti-American Rhetoric daily... Take there ignorrance with a grain of salt, because most people who have a problem with America most likely resides with our gov't and not the populace.... Which I can totally agree with.... Everyone has a right to free speech. Even the ignorrant.

That and there jelly we still have our guns and they are lacking Dentists who can fix that horrible mouth of theres.

HelenConway

posted on Apr, 5 2013 @ 03:09 PM

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Originally posted by txinfidel
reply to post by HelenConway

Again, this is not directed at you.

Its a counter argument for those across the pond who wish to tell people in the US that they shouldn't have a right that is guaranteed in our countries constitution.

Because we earned that right by kicking your bloody butts.

Addit:

It is about me - I am British - i live on the edge of the pond, facing America - East of Manhattan but proudly pointing West

txinfidel

posted on Apr, 5 2013 @ 03:15 PM

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reply to post by JustMike

We don't have to agree, but I will defend your right to say it.

The point of this thread is that freedom of speech and the right to self defense go hand in hand.

Do I really think the british people should give up their rights? No. But the only reason those rights are respected is because of nations like the US where the people can bear arms.

Could you imagine a world where all of the citizens did not bear arms?

We would all go into captivity, there would be no such thing as free speech.

I am just illustrating a point to those across the pond who think we should relinquish are arms, ok.
If we do that, say goodbye to any freedoms you currently have, including free speech.

Maxatoria

posted on Apr, 5 2013 @ 03:16 PM

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Whatever might have happened in a war more than two centuries ago has absolutely nothing to do with it. If we argue on that "we beat you in a war" basis, we could deny the right of free speech to people of any nation that's lost a war against any of us, at any time. And if we do that, then where do you think that will lead?

Probably we'd be speaking some ancient middle east dialect so obscure as it would of been used by the winners of the first village versus village conflict 10,000 years ago or even before that as technically they would be able to top trumps everyone else

But come on people lets be friends...light trolling yeh as everyone loves a little bit of it but sometimes reading posts here is that since the 1780's every war thats ever happened has been won by the USA solo

even if they never even sent a single soldier/diplomat etc to the countries who actually fought in the war

HelenConway

posted on Apr, 5 2013 @ 03:17 PM

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Originally posted by txinfidel
reply to post by JustMike

We don't have to agree, but I will defend your right to say it.

.

Exactly !!! Glad we managed to set you straight

anytime - don't thank us

txinfidel

posted on Apr, 5 2013 @ 03:18 PM

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reply to post by HelenConway

I usually dont carry. But I have one to protect from home invasion etc which is quite common in these parts. Sometimes I bring one in the car with me, just in case something goes down.

But yes, during the revolutionary war, the Brits did try to get us to disarm. It never happened though.

zonetripper2065

posted on Apr, 5 2013 @ 03:21 PM

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reply to post by boymonkey74

What kinds of guns are you allowed to own in the UK? I knew a girl out in Kent and her mother owned an old double barrel shotgun.

alldaylong

posted on Apr, 5 2013 @ 03:21 PM

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Originally posted by txinfidel
reply to post by HelenConway

I usually dont carry. But I have one to protect from home invasion etc which is quite common in these parts. Sometimes I bring one in the car with me, just in case something goes down.

But yes, during the revolutionary war, the Brits did try to get us to disarm. It never happened though.

Point of order. During The War Of Independence, both sides where "Brit's" The inhabitants of the 13 Colonies where British Subjects.

LesMisanthrope

posted on Apr, 5 2013 @ 03:22 PM

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Most of the Constitution is influenced by British thought. The Magna Carta, John Locke, Thomas Hobbes, Edward Coke, William Blackstone—without these influences, the US would still be in the dark ages.

Even the 2nd amendment was influenced by the English Bill of Rights.

Perhaps respect should be given where it's due.

edit on 5-4-2013 by LesMisanthrope because: (no reason given)

boymonkey74

posted on Apr, 5 2013 @ 03:23 PM

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reply to post by zonetripper2065

Shotguns, rifles...no handguns after dunblaine (The public wanted them gone so our government banned them) nothing automatic.

See the link on page 1 of my gunsmiths, It will give you an idea of what we can have.

Maxatoria

posted on Apr, 5 2013 @ 03:24 PM

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reply to post by txinfidel

Does having a metric crap ton of weapons stop you from getting anally probed at every US airport etc, realistically you think you are free but you are just as shafted as we brits are its just you have a few pounds of metal to give you comfort while getting a right shafting from the other end and why if the gun is the last defense of freedom in the USA why aint you guys saying "err i don't like this..lets go to washington and change it once i grab my rifle and some spare ammo?" instead of almost backing off and bunkering up when you have a probable 200:1 advantage in numbers/gear etc

HelenConway

posted on Apr, 5 2013 @ 03:24 PM

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Originally posted by LesMisanthrope
Most of the Constitution is influenced by British thought. The Magna Carta, John Locke, Thomas Hobbes, Edward Coke, William Blackstone—without these influences, the US would still be in the dark ages.

Perhaps respect should be given where it's due.

Well most of the early Americans were in fact British also - [native Americans not included in this comment - respectfully - because they were obviously the earliest Americans.]

HelenConway

posted on Apr, 5 2013 @ 03:25 PM

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Originally posted by alldaylong

Originally posted by txinfidel
reply to post by HelenConway

I usually dont carry. But I have one to protect from home invasion etc which is quite common in these parts. Sometimes I bring one in the car with me, just in case something goes down.

But yes, during the revolutionary war, the Brits did try to get us to disarm. It never happened though.

Point of order. During The War Of Independence, both sides where "Brit's" The inhabitants of the 13 Colonies where British Subjects.

I said that early which is why it arguably was a civil war..

zonetripper2065

posted on Apr, 5 2013 @ 03:28 PM

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reply to post by boymonkey74

Wow I never realized firearms were so expensive in the UK.

Advantage

posted on Apr, 5 2013 @ 03:28 PM

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Good grief.

I, for one, dont care where youre from ( or your/your ancestors immigrant status, your color, your sexual orientation, etc), where you are, and enjoy hearing other opinions even when they dont agree with my own. I am sick of being broad brushed concerning my country of origin here, but it's usually only a display of one's ignorance when I hear pronouncements about ME ( as an American) due to the patch of soil I was born on or ME ( an indigenous American) when our issues/history/etc is discussed here. I am a proponent of the 2nd amendment and all of the amendments, Im humbled to be living in a country that produced such documents as the bill of rights, constitution, etc... and some would do well if they looked into the origins of the documents. I too have seen the hubris and arrogance here, but it certainly isnt only the British behaving this way.

Many times it is good to hear other opinions.. and specifically useful to hear the opinions of those who have well thought out disagreements. ATS should be a wonderful resource to learn and understand others and those living in other countries and experiencing other government issues.. unfortunately its usually used just like in this thread.. a reason to bitch and moan at eachother.