More US Deployments

reply to post by Seek_Truth


They aren't going to use nuclear weapons on North Korea. Too much potential for disaster with Russia and China right there.

Originally posted by intrptr
reply to post by RevRay

 

How many missiles would a "boomer" get away until it too was destroyed? Consider time between launches and that each smoke trail points all the way back to its exact location.

They can unleash hell in minutes, is that enough? They can fire a group and then submerge and pop up later somewhere else and fire off another group so they can and will survive. Consider each missile has eight warheads and they can fire a lot off in one surface or all if nothing was around them. 24x8, you do the math! And they are so quite they have gone into Russian bays not noticed.

The three most powerful men on earth are the President of the U.S., Russia and the Captain of an Ohio Class Sub.

reply to post by Zaphod58


"Aren't" is an assumption.

We "Will" if prevoked enough.

The pilots of the bombers won't even know what they've done until at least a few days after the fact.

We have apparently 5 "Nuke capable if modified" B-1B bombers that have landed somewhere for a reason that could only be, A. Modification or B. Munition stocking and Refueling for strategic bombing runs.

Am I wrong?

Originally posted by Zaphod58
reply to post by Seek_Truth

 

They aren't going to use nuclear weapons on North Korea.

Agreed....

While I can feel an imminent attempt to end a conflict that should have long since been resolved, I can't see a US nuclear armed response...

What I see is a concentrated devastating elimination of the NK nuke threat.... if there is one...


IMO it's time to end this last pawn of the cold war, let Korea be whole again... it's been too friggin long...

Best case ... short sweet to the point.. strikes on what threats NK poses, and a pause to allow their leader to announce the end of hostilities..

worst case... however long it takes to take out the NK military, which are the ones pulling the strings at the moment...

IMO of course, it's time to let the Korean people unite, make the country whole, the folks there have suffered enough....

reply to post by Seek_Truth


You think that a bomber pilot isn't going to realize that he just dropped a nuclear weapon? What, the EMP, the shockwave, and other indicators aren't going to give it away?

As for the "5 nuclear capable if modified" bombers, we also have 6 B-52s already on Guam, and 21 B-2s already capable of carrying nuclear weapons, capable of flying from Missouri to Korea and back again. You really think that 5 B-1s are going to be flown to a remote island to get modified to carry nuclear weapons, when they already have nuclear platforms either much closer to Korea, or ready to fly there?

And no, it's not an assumption. North Korea doesn't present enough of a threat for us to use nuclear weapons against them. If we use nukes, the fallout hits China and Russia, who might be willing to stay out of it if it stays conventional, but will certainly get involved if nukes are unleashed.

As for where they are, and why they're there, it's called forward basing. It's why we use Diego Garcia, and Guam for bombers. It puts them several thousand miles closer to any potential targets, which means many hours closer to their targets.

Originally posted by Zaphod58
reply to post by Seek_Truth

 

They aren't going to use nuclear weapons on North Korea. Too much potential for disaster with Russia and China right there.

They may have to use tactical nukes as dumb dumb and his assets are deep in those dam mountains. If he sends a WMD at South Korea, Japan or our bases anywhere you can bet we will wipe him and China out. Russia will learn fast that staying on our bad side is a stupid idea and they will side with us. Our troops train together a lot anymore despite the talk and provocative moves sometimes. I think they don't want to have to compete with their neighbor for the future when they can have that land that is not glowing all to themselves, they would rather be allied with NATO in the long run.

reply to post by Patriotsrevenge

The three most powerful men on earth are the President of the U.S., Russia and the Captain of an Ohio Class Sub.

Until it shoots. Then the launch signature gives it up. I knew a Boomer driver. He said that two or three max, then they are toast. Mirvs fly both ways you know. Large slow target once they shoot. Time to target is the time to their own destruction.

But you go right ahead and pretend they can duck back under the radar once their position is known.

reply to post by Patriotsrevenge


That's what MOP is for. They may have to use multiple weapons to get deep enough to hit their bunkers, but MOP will penetrate deep enough, especially if they use one to "clear the way" for the second one.

Originally posted by Seek_Truth
reply to post by Zaphod58

 

The pilots of the bombers won't even know what they've done until at least a few days after the fact.


Am I wrong?

That just silly. You need to watch "By Dawns Early Light" Its on Youtube. Its a cool movie and you will see what our bomber pilots will experience in a nuclear war from start to finish.

Originally posted by Zaphod58
reply to post by Patriotsrevenge

 

That's what MOP is for. They may have to use multiple weapons to get deep enough to hit their bunkers, but MOP will penetrate deep enough, especially if they use one to "clear the way" for the second one.

I sure hope you right. I think since China sent their best troops to the border before Kim started shooting his mouth off that we may be in for round two of the Korean War.

Originally posted by Zaphod58
Ok, NOW I'm really getting an ungood feeling here. I'm seeing moves reported that I have never seen before, and they're not good ones.

First, two E-6B TACAMO aircraft (semi-replacement for the EC-135 Looking Glass) have been launched. Upon departure the tower reportedly said "Be safe, and see you in a few weeks. Come back in one piece!"

Second, SLAM 1, a B-1B out of Ellsworth AFB requested permission to attack a "missile facility" in Snyder Texas (a school bus depot), using simulated JDAMs. They also mentioned SA-6 and SA-8 SAM launchers during the audio.

www.webbfeatproductions.com...

Third, and this is where things get really ungood, DARK 1, flight of 7 was heard requesting a tanker drag from Beale AFB, and requesting weather for UAM (UAM is the code for Anderson AB Guam). What makes this both worrying, and very unusual is the fact that DARK is the standard callsign for B-1B bombers out of Dyess AFB, TX. I have never heard of a flight of seven with B-1s. I've seen four, max, but never once have I seen seven flying together like that.

theaviationist.com...

So WTF is the actually giving you the "ungood feelings"?

I was simply weighing in on the original topic and trying to figure all of it out.

Apparently you have it all figured out and have completely discredited the reason for your post in the first place.

I'm not trying to be a dick at all. Just frustrated.

Unfortunately I wasted 3 hours of my time on this thread and getting into the grit of the links you posted.

reply to post by Patriotsrevenge


The number of Chinese troops on the border is more a "refugee control force" than anything else. They might be their best troops, but there are only 30,000 or so on the border. That's not going to do much, even with the planes involved.

reply to post by Seek_Truth


I don't have to be worried about a nuclear response to have an "ungood feeling" about this. The fact that they are moving things they've never moved into the area before when this rhetoric has happened. This response is unprecedented compared to what has happened in the past, and it creates so much potential for an accident starting a pretty significant war in the region.

Even conventional bombers create a lot of devastation, and a lot of dead people on both sides. We've had over 10 years of continuous war, and this is starting to really look like it's going to be another one in the very near future. North Korea isn't a huge threat, but it's time to give our forces a rest, and let them recover from constant fighting.

The E-6B Mercury is a command and control aircraft, similar to the E-4 "Doomsday Plane". It's entirely capable of kicking off things, and running the show from the area. They only deploy them when they expect something to happen, and the fact that two of them are in the region doesn't bode well for where things are going.

Originally posted by intrptr
reply to post by Patriotsrevenge

 

The three most powerful men on earth are the President of the U.S., Russia and the Captain of an Ohio Class Sub.

Until it shoots. Then the launch signature gives it up. I knew a Boomer driver. He said that two or three max, then they are toast. Mirvs fly both ways you know. Large slow target once they shoot. Time to target is the time to their own destruction.

But you go right ahead and pretend they can duck back under the radar once their position is known.

First off, Mirvs are not going to hit a moving target and not one that is diving to 800 feet. Second, Radar is for above the water lol. By time any enemy missile gets there they are going to be gone unless they have something very close by. Especially if one of the Cruise missile boats or an Aegis Destroyer is near by. 150 Tomahawks will sink every thing on the surface pretty quick let alone the air defenses of the Aegis Destroyers. Not to mention our attack subs protecting the boomers and surface fleet, witch their will be many, Hunter killer subs. The only Navy that stands a chance is Russia and they just don't have enough to fight our Navy anymore.

And if one goon starts yappin about the Chinese sub that popped up in the middle of our battle group I am going to scream. We don't sink subs in peacetime. I have a hundred dollars that says it was forced to the surface by one of our attack subs!!!

By the way your sub driver is told where to turn the wheel by a Captain who gets his info from a guy like ME!!

reply to post by Zaphod58


I was trying to figure out where these bombers went. I think I did. Johnston.

Nukes.. whatever. We have em... they have em... whoever drops em creates a headache.

We are the only country in history to drop nukes. And we did it 2 times. We'll do it again. And probably soon.

Probably wont be a silly ground invasion with hovercrafts and such, right? Or bunker busting out all of DPRK's "Head Officials" one by one....

What exactly is concerning about 5 Bomber's that have minimal payloads compared to what we already have stationed closer?

Originally posted by Zaphod58
reply to post by Seek_Truth

 

Even conventional bombers create a lot of devastation, and a lot of dead people on both sides. We've had over 10 years of continuous war, and this is starting to really look like it's going to be another one in the very near future. North Korea isn't a huge threat, but it's time to give our forces a rest, and let them recover from constant fighting.

The E-6B Mercury is a command and control aircraft, similar to the E-4 "Doomsday Plane". It's entirely capable of kicking off things, and running the show from the area. They only deploy them when they expect something to happen, and the fact that two of them are in the region doesn't bode well for where things are going.

Very well said but unfortunately with Obama in office, the economy being so bad we are seen as weak. I think this is all a distraction for China to take Taiwan and the surrounding Islands when North Korea gets us tied up.

I have two books that predicted this whole mess to the T. Even with the new Pope. The book was wrote right after 9/11. Torn Sky and Torn Sky Project Jerusalem by Kathleen Keating. Great stories, now if she could only name names without getting killed.

reply to post by Seek_Truth


It's not just the B-1s, it's EVERYTHING. It's the B-2s flying from Whiteman, it's the E-6Bs flying from Tinker, it's the B-52s already there, it's the things I can't mention here. I'm putting the entire picture together, and I'm not liking what I'm seeing come together. The last time I saw something like this coming together, within a month or two we were in a war. This is shaping up exactly like it did then, and it's a picture I was hoping we wouldn't see again for a long time.

Originally posted by Seek_Truth
reply to post by Zaphod58

 

What exactly is concerning about 5 Bomber's that have minimal payloads compared to what we already have stationed closer?

Did you see how many we used on Iraq the first time? You cant tax your planes and pilots as they can only fly once or twice a day. We really need more but these are hard hitting planes so they plan on it being over pretty quick from what I see.

reply to post by Zaphod58

You know Zaphod... I think I really need to do that thread Phoenix and a couple others are after me for about regarding what the first 60-90 minutes of this war are expected to look like from the DPRK and US Commands war gaming. No need to mention US offensive planning of any kind but for the North Korean curve of effectiveness being a bit higher or lower, as I think thats about all the difference US force makes in that very brief opening time frame of the open of hostilities. *IF* such a thing happens ..and of course. We're many miles down the proverbial road yet from that happening. Almost everyone hopes it remains that way.

I also find it downright uncomfortable though, how commonly people have come to see serious fighting and war as mundane and of no overly pressing interest if nuclear weapons aren't involved.

I'm confident from what I've come to know of you in your informative posting here that you may very well know better than I, how rough that first 1-2 hours would be. I'm guessing you might have been there at some point to have come to know folks over there.

Of course the most disturbing thing would be if the US actually was considering Nuclear weapons. Which I'm sure are somewhere in the region (It's a BIG region of course..lol) but held as a worst case if something REALLY went out of hand with Kim's judgement and self-restraint. Like a Sarin warhead or some suicidal decision like that. (Everyone seems to totally space on the fact Kim is a real lover of the lesserment of man's numbers through modern Chemistry. Like Daddy before him)

I agree in the fact a bad feeling here is plenty to have about perhaps hundreds of thousands of Republic of Korean citizens being killed by mind shattering artillery barrage on a modern metropolitan city,

You know one of the big things tho is something I put on a map I made from a public domain blank....



Vladivostok is 81 miles away from the border. It's not terribly far from all the targets the US will have to attack.

reply to post by Zaphod58


Totally agree with you.

I don't know how much you know about Vieques, PR but the setup of the island is strangely similar to Guam.

134 square miles (VQS) vs 209 square miles (UAM)

Same exact stuff. Effing wild....

History recreated