North Korea advised British & Russian Embassy to Evacuate.

reply to post by MariaLida

You know, lately with the complete shutting off of the economic pipeline between North and South and now this warning to embassies to evacuate, I feel this s*** is getting real.

I've worried about it in passing for several weeks. For that matter, we've been hearing from N Korea for months and years, so it's not all that new. But their ratcheting up of the rhetoric is now being followed with actions that could potentially lead to the US or S Korea to act in self-defense.

This is the boy who cried wolf meme in reverse. The boy is saying he'll attack, but he never does. This has led to the public not caring about it so much. However, the recent events could be a sign that N Korea is serious; despite how crazy that sounds. If this is so and N Korea continues to follow its rhetoric with actions then it's only a matter of time before the US or S Korea calls for either a pre-emptive strike or an attack in anticipation of a N Korean military advance.

reply to post by judus

I agree with you, but many of these "arm chair warriors" are actually military veterans. They don't want war, but they have a lot of pride in our military and do not like the N Korean leadership. From their perspective, N Korea is asking for it and they're hungry to show that f** b****** what war is.

Well, that's my attempt at understand people who say "Bomb em!"

I don't want to bomb em. I don't want war. I hate war. I'm not military, either. And maybe my characterization of "arm chair warriors" is too far off for me to be taken seriously.

It's just that I wonder how far N Korea can push and not get a response? Do they really think they can make all these threats and not goose themselves into a knot? Are they blind?

I absolutely agree with you that this will, if it were to become full-scale, would result in a lot of lives lost. Look at Iraq. They said it would be over in a few weeks. They acted like the whole operation would be done with a month or so and the Iraqi people would applause us and retake their country. But it didn't happen that way. Street to street fighting and LED's and so on. Thousands, maybe hundreds of thousands of lives lost. Former cities reduced to ruin. A slowly recovering populace.

Seoul is only some 28 miles from the 38th parallel? If this s*** became real it would be ugly.

What I don't understand is why does it go on and on? Why doesn't the N Korean leadership just give up and throw in the towl? Yes, it's true that some 9 countries have nukes and they were not prevented from getting them. N Korea might feel it has a right to develop nuclear weapons because of history. However, the current situation demands that they stop these ambitions FOR NOW. If they truly care about their people, they will stop. Maybe in 10-50 years they could resume conspiratorially. There's lots of things they could do secretly, but for now it's best to stop the nuke program.

If they fail to stop they're just walking into a hornets nest. They deserve to get stung.

They need to develop international relations. They need to grow a better working relationship with S Korea. They need to build trust with the world. Right now, they have no benefit of the doubt.

Saddam and Gaddafi similarly had no benefit of the doubt. When things got testy, we took em out. That's what will happen with N Korea if they fail to build trust. They're like a group of kids in the neighborhood who never learn how to communicate and how to build relationships.

I also think that the future of Russia and China is now. It all depends on how they act with N Korea. If they choose to side with N Korea then the future is written. Taking sides only leads to future war. We saw it happen it happen in Korea for the past 100+ years. Between the Japanese and the Chinese and the Russians and Japanese and the Soviets and the US and now some say the East and the West. The east and west need to iron out their differences because the earth does not need war. If AGW continues as is forecasted, continuing conflict on our planets between nations is going to stop the kind of action we need to rise above the increasing depravity brought on by decreasing resources and increasing disaster. We're like a house that must stabilize its foundation to stay standing.

Originally posted by thoughtsfull
Putting my silly jokes to one side, I do find it interesting, if worrisome that this new information is offering a date where they can not offer safety beyond.. 10th April..

Is there anything happening around the 10th that would mean they could not guarantee an embassies safety? (aside from hot air and bluster)

Just that all TV in UK will be 'down' as all digital boxes are being 'upgraded'...there's a coincidence now!

Rainbows
Jane

reply to post by littled16


I agree with what you said, but, I had to cover up your avatar to read it...cute but too distracting!

reply to post by MariaLida


This is starting to sound more and more, like a 10 year old Girl, strutting into a maximum security prison, stomping her little feet, demanding she get everyones' dessert. Even though she's been put in time-out for throwing hissy fits.

Des

reply to post by Destinyone




You've just beat me to it!
I was going to say, as a parent what do you ultimately do when your kiddy throws a hissy fit....you just ignore until it exhausts itself or soon gets distracted by something else.......but you keep the eyes in the back of your head well 'peeled'!

Rainbows
Jane

PS I could be sexist and say that's what a woman does...a man will probably argue back!

reply to post by Destinyone


But in this case, the child has a gun and doesn't think about the consequences of using it. Scary stuff. Hope everyone calms down.

There seems to be no end to the little daily stunts one can do to get on the news. Funny how steady and ready for the news the daily developments are.

Originally posted by jonnywhite
reply to post by judus

 

I absolutely agree with you that this will, if it were to become full-scale, would result in a lot of lives lost. Look at Iraq. They said it would be over in a few weeks. They acted like the whole operation would be done with a month or so and the Iraqi people would applause us and retake their country. But it didn't happen that way. Street to street fighting and LED's and so on. Thousands, maybe hundreds of thousands of lives lost. Former cities reduced to ruin. A slowly recovering populace.

It's IED (not LED) and to be factually correct and totally clear here, the war in Iraq WAS over in a few weeks. Insofar as conquering another Nations Government.
It's the Nation Building that we are doing in Iraq and Afghanistan that is costing American lives and stressing our economy.

Maybe Jr. has a secret deal with the US to not fire a missile until our defenses are up in Guam. Really, 2 weeks to move a defense into position? I mean, if I was really wanting to put the hurt on someone and they said "Oh, we won't be able to defend ourselves for another 2 weeks" I'd probably jump on that.

Of course, it is entirely possible that the US has falsely stated the time to deploy defenses in the hopes that he will fire one of those things so we can go in and strike back fast and hard, maybe before the missile even gets to the Guam defenses....

Lil Kim is starting to remind me of Al Gore, from south park.

I'm being cereal, why doesn't anyone believe me, when I'm being super cereal!?

Its manbearpig!!

Felt the need to chime in here, though I haven't read all the post yet (bad Raud, go back to your den!)...

Anyhow,
the more threats that NK makes, the risk for war diminish. I mean, NK and SK/USA has been playing this dangerous game very long now, long enough for NK to know what they have waiting for them: endless and certain destruction.
If they where to attack SK or any other of their numerous foes, they would go for a surprise attack for sure.
This is why: first, they wouldn't stand a chance to begin with, and second, they have even less chances of survivinga a retalliation from the mightiest military force in the world once they too are on high alert.

Still, Kim is a mad kid, and you never know, maybe he is brainwashed enough to go for it, who knows, right?
I find this very unlikely however. Even though he is a total autocrat, he's got a bunch of generals around him that might just hint him that it is more or less impossible to win in open battle... Remember that Kim did get some education abroad (just imagine having him as a desk mate!).

So, this rattling of steel is probably just that, a mighty (stupid) rattle. He'll drive this thing to the edge, freeze it there for a while and sooner or later roll it back up.

The real risk is that someone on the other side can't take the preassure and fires across the border. This is what NK really wants: a "legitimate" reason to respond. We just can't give 'em that. Pray for it not to happen...

China is the actor in real peril here;
they need the status quo real bad. NK is their little buffer zone to not having the US on their doorstep. If NK was to be invaded by a coalition force, or otherwise, there will be millions of armed NK soldiers and refugees flooding the Chinese bordes and setting up camps from where to launch attacks. Then they would have the US on their doorstep for sure, with the drones and everything!
I assure you that neither the US nor China wants that to happen...

I also have this wild theory of NK wanting to lose a war with SK so that they can be taken over, all the top dogs fleeing to Cuba or whatever and leaving the misery for SK and the international community to clean up. It is a bit like The Mouse That Roared with Peter Sellers

My other idea, which is maybe more far fetched, is that China wants to know more about US preparedness and how much they can muster in the specific area so they provoke them via proxy. But I know little about how much influence China has over NK politics...

Anywhooo, I think we all should stay frosty on this one. No one benefits from fear more than NK in this case and, like I said, we shouldn't give them that.
Either it will be a Pearl Harbour sort of attack or it will be nothing.
This Kim kid is probably just making a statement here that he is just as dangerous and unpredictable as his priors (and a just as incompetent state leader as those before him). What I really mourn here is the NK population and their seemingly never-ending distress.

That's my cents right there.

Originally posted by judus
Just to rant a little more

All I have read is talk of "the people of NK stave, treated badly, everything the people do is monitored and are slaves with no contact with the outside world"

I thought for a moment people were talking about the UK & US

Does nobody remember Iraq !!!!!!

Feel free to rant in the above fashion, but it's incredibly ignorant to compare the UK and US's treatment of its citizens to that of NK.

North Koreans are literally prisoners in their country. They cannot leave. Last I checked, people in the US and UK were free to leave their country whenever they want.

North Koreans are cut off from outside TV, internet, etc. Totally cut off. You could say people in the UK and US are ignorant of affairs outside their country, but that's true of every single country on the planet to some extent, and is a factor of the laziness of the citizens, not the overbearing actions of their government.

People in the UK and US are free to access the internet all over the globe, to read newspapers, articles, books from all over the globe. To call and interact with people all over the globe. And there are millions and millions of citizens in the US and UK who are VERY aware of global events, and even the stereotypical ignorant american knows more about world events than people in North Korea do.

People in the UK and US are free to be critical of their government, they can say whatever they want. People can lie and say we are under a dictatorship and can't talk bad about our leaders, but it's just that, a lie. If we weren't able to talk bad about our leaders, ATS wouldn't exist, GLP wouldn't exist. It's one thing to be aware of our own country's shortcomings, it's another to ridiculously compare those shortcomings to those of North Korea, Nazi Germany was more free than NK.

Last I checked people in the US aren't required to have a picture of Obama in their house. Last I checked people in the US aren't required to look up to Obama as a god.

North Koreans die all the time of starvation, with over 350 million Americans, and many many millions of UK citizens, how many of them starve? Few if any. How many of them are not only WELL fed, but OVER fed? Millions, millions, and millions.

Very silly comparison to say the UK or US are anything like NK in the way the people of those countries are treated. It shows a huge lack of knowledge about NK, or at least it shows extreme dishonesty when making such comparisons.

If the US or the UK were anything like NK, you would be dead right now for making that post.. if you're lucky. Or you'd be in a work camp, with your entire family brought to the work camp as well. Then you would die after being worked to death, along with your family.

Just because you hate America and the UK so much, doesn't mean you have to be a simple minded drone and defend and support anything that goes against the west, simply because it's anti-western. That shows a level of independent thought not much above that of an ant.

Originally posted by billy565

What a mess.....I told you guys to vote for Romney.

I wasn't aware Romney had any sort of influence over NK's leadership....?

What exactly do you think Romney would have done differently? Are you really still in the mind set that the soap opera called American politics actually changes anything?

Originally posted by traceee
Sorry if this is a bit off topic but I wanted to present my opinion:

What if the US pretty much already controls NK through "NWO", and they are attempting to create an illusion that war may come at any moment, to create restlessness and government dependency, and for the masses to subconsciously accept a war before it even occurs, which prevents rebelling. Lastly, the "NWO" may be trying to set up a final world war, but they must condition the masses to accept the concept of war, so this is why I think we are seeing all this Propaganda on the mainstream media. The only reason for which I think the "NWO" should want a war with Asia is to kill the dollar, or engineer another financial collapse.

What are everyone's thoughts?

That's possible... in the same regard that ANYTHING is possible.

But it's completely pointless to speculate about. Why? For the same reason it's pointless to speculate about god or ancient aliens, there is zero concrete proof, and using NWO or illuminati as a talking point in a discussion basically allows you to say ANYTHING and back it up with "well the NWO controls everything, so I'm right"

I don't mean that in a rude way, simply that IF the NWO or Illuminati does exist, there is no possible way to make logical arguments about anything, because the purposes and motivations behind everything are completely different than what history tells us. NK hates America because of our helping SK, and it's imported America hatred from Russia during the cold war. This hatred results in NK action against SK or America. That's a logical argument, based on history. Saying that NK is going to attack SK or America because they are controlled by the illuminati is based on nothing, and just doesn't really accomplish anything by discussing it.

There is no point in discussing anything if the illuminati controls all, because the answer will always be "Illuminati is doing this to take over the world!" Having that same exact answer for every single world event regardless of how important or unimportant defeats the whole purpose of discussing this topic.

There's one thing that bothers me. If Kim moves his rockets to the east coast it's because they are meant to be seen. If it's just a show of force then fine...but if he really is intent on attacking it's what we cannot see that's worrisome.

It's nothing more than just show what they do and want to be seen, that's all. Don't understand all the fuss about it. The more attention North Korea gets, the more attention they seek. They will never start a war

Originally posted by MRedfield
"They won't do it, they need to do X first"

North Korea does X.

"That doesn't mean anything, they've done this before. They still need to do Y"

North Korea does Y.

"They're not even a real threat, we won't take it seriously until North Korea does Z"

North Korea does Z.

I've said it before, I'll say it again: Never underestimate your enemy.

The idea of never underestimating your enemy should apply to the US and SK as well, then, shouldn't it?

Implying NK has something clever up their sleeve, while implying the US or SK would be impotent in the matter ignores your own logic, if we are to not underestimate NK, then NK is to not underestimate the US or SK, right?

Basically, if you suggest NK is 100 times stronger than we think, why can't the US and SK be 100 times stronger than we/you/kims think?

You have to make an estimate of your enemies capability... what do you suggest that estimation should be? Simply saying "don't underestimate your enemy" means nothing without specifying what you mean. Do you suggest the have thousands of high yield nuclear weapons? Do you suggest they have Alien technology? Do you suggest they have thousands of missiles capable of reaching anywhere on the planet? Do you suggest they have Atlantis technology? What exactly do you think NK has up their sleeve that could possibly counter the US and SK?

Basically, anything that NK COULD have, the US and SK already have it in spades. They could make the war messy, if they withdrew underground and forced the US and SK to move masses of troops into NK, but that wouldn't happen. Bombing the crap out the nation at the slightest hint of a drawn out conflict would be the first choice, what do you suggest NK has to counter this?

The British being British they wont go anywhere.

N. Korea are trying to flex some muscle from the looks of it and not doing much favours. I will eat my words if they do go ahead and attack.

There more like threats than anything. It's will soon fizzle out and the media will stop banging on about N. Korea.