What would you do: advice sought on a controversial topic

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posted on Apr, 5 2013 @ 03:12 AM
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reply to post by Dantose
 

The idea in your post is what I believe Bleeeeep and Ophiuchus were aluding to in their posts. It isn't really targeting but rather the standard MO across the board. As I stated in a previous post, I don't think it falls in line with the OP. It wouldn't be a technological tool develped by men to control other men. It would slip into a different area.
edit on 5-4-2013 by daskakik because: (no reason given)




posted on Apr, 5 2013 @ 03:13 AM
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reply to post by tetra50
 


My first thought is-
This is why we have mental health professionals.
If one needs help, why go to an internet discussion forum??? Seriously! Few people here are able to be a constructive and receptive aid in such matters, and even if they are, by nature, this mode of communication seriously limits exchanges.

I do think these things can be possible: many things are possible. Some things really happen to some people, and the same things are imagined as happening to others.

One of the things a mental healthcare professional learns to do is suspend judgement and simply be receptive.
That is actually very hard for many people to do. Sometimes it is what we need most though.

Something my shrink parents explained to me long ago and that stuck in my head was that

Actually, a pretty significant percentage of child sexual abuse and incest cases are not real- they are false memories. (there are many psychological mechanisms that cause this)
But
When it comes to the victim, it doesn't matter whether it really happened or not.
Real or imagined, it has the SAME effects in the long term. The same psychologcial damage, blockages, fears, defenses, etc.

So unless the goal is to bring charges against someone, that is not relevant to their need for support and aid.

I always found this a rather important insight. It is applicable in so many areas, and becomes the very base of compassion. Someone whp believes they are in hell IS. And it is going to be a bit more complicated to get them out than to just tell them they aren't.

Sure, as you go down the road together, you might find more and more evidence as to whether it is real (in the objective sense) or not, but unless you are both walking that path together, it isn't going to do them any good.

Ah, I don't know. When I had strange experiences, I went to a shrink. I didn't ask strangers on the internet to help me. There are times when real human contact and presence is preferable to a computer screen.
edit on 5-4-2013 by Bluesma because: (no reason given)



posted on Apr, 5 2013 @ 03:33 AM
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reply to post by Bluesma
 


Honestly, your advice is very good advice to somebody experiencing all of the symptoms of schizophrenia or similar mental disease. I do feel however that your response is off topic from the OP. Certainly, the first reply could have been "See a psychiatrist" and the thread could end there, but this is a hypothetical thread, in the gray area board. The OP did not say anything along the lines of currently experiencing these symptoms but only asked for a hypothetical discussion on the topic. The response you gave is a very wise, real-world response, but it doesn't answer any hypothetical questions or allow for discussion of other possibilities of the hypothetical nature of OPs topic. I truly don't mean to come off as rude, only clarifying the nature of the discussion.
edit on 5-4-2013 by Dantose because: (no reason given)



posted on Apr, 5 2013 @ 03:46 AM
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reply to post by Dantose
 


I was aware that it had evolved to focus upon the technological probabilities, but my post was a direct response to this one-




What would you do? Try to walk in those described shoes and the path they are set upon without any control of the individual, forced to walk this path with compassion, and give some honest feedback about what could someone suffering this do? Who would you appeal to? How would you go about exposing what is happening to you, and finding the source in order to stop it?


(I should have used the quote function to make that more clear)
This was my answer to those particular questions. They are what I would do, they are what I DID do, when I had experiences of abduction against my will.

When it comes to questions of mind control, and obstruction of personal will, the very first step is strengthening the will and self empowerment... and another person simply taking you seriously enough to be there and be receptive without judgement builds that.

"Exposing what is happening to you" begins with finding a suitable person to expose it to.
"Finding the source", I propose, is not necessary to stop it.

For example, I developed a technique which fought those moments when I was "paralyzed" and unable to oppose manipualtions of my body by the beings I percieved. As I observed a certain way of canalizing and focusing emotional energy had an influence on them and that experience, I worked on strengthening it until I could blow them off and release my body from the paralyzation. I taught my son to do the same.

Ultimately, I do not know if the "beings" were real (though they seemed so to my senses) or if they were hallucinations. It doesn't matter though. My technique was effective.

It could have been an effective way of waking myself from sleep paralysis, or overcoming temporary psychotic shifts with my mind -
or it could have been a way of blocking mind and body control from extra-terrestrial or multi dimensional beings.
It doesn't matter to me. That is my point about this hypothetical sufferer of mind control technology- they need help finding a way to fight this experience, not convince others of it!



edit on 5-4-2013 by Bluesma because: (no reason given)



posted on Apr, 5 2013 @ 08:03 AM
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reply to post by Bluesma
 


Truly an awesome response! I see now that your post really was more than the default "seek help you're clearly bonkers" response I initially took it as. Hope you can overlook my last reply.



posted on Apr, 5 2013 @ 08:08 AM
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reply to post by Dantose
 


Oh, I was just not clear the first time, and I appreciate the opportunity to clarify. You were a perfect gentleman, and i appreciate that.



posted on Apr, 5 2013 @ 10:09 AM
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edit on 5-4-2013 by ErgoTheConclusion because: ...



posted on Apr, 5 2013 @ 11:05 AM
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reply to post by daskakik
 




Me:
I see your responses as picking apart something that was wholly intended to do the opposite. Leave the picking alone, assume it happens, suspend your belief for the purposes of healing. You continue to degenerate the discussion to tangential nitpicking, refusing to accept any logic you will not entertain regardless of its logic.
World domination and the domination and control of the populace must not be something you see as happening, or a goal.
You:
Sorry but this isn't your own little dictatorship where you get to tell other members of ATS what to do.
Me:
If you do not wish to participate in the discussion on that level, then leave it. You lost me with the romanticized anything once I described what the rape of the mind must be like and it should be the last sacred bastion of our lives and bodies as individuals. If you don't see the paramountness of that, and how offensive it is to suggest this is some kind of romanticization, we will never reach any agreement about much of anything, and I feel you have missed the point of the OP.
You:
I never said a mind rape is romantic. That is you twisting what I said. You painting the picture of the last stance of human beings to protect the last bastion of our lives and bodies as individuals is romantic.



First, I desire no "dictatorship," and find it incredibly amusing and ironic, given the nature of my op, that you would twist my reponses to this strange level.
As to your second response: If it does exist, then it being the last stance of humanity to protect the only sacred thing we have left, our minds, thoughts, intellect, would seem to make it exactly that, the last bastion of a battle for our inherent, God given rights as a form of life, born to, with hope, reach self actualization without interference
or control, directly of our thoughts, which allows for not only a complete control over us, but dictates of necessity being what it is, what our fates will be and how we will be defined historically and how our lives will progress or not. Romantic? Sorry, I fail to see any romanticism about this topic.
I respectfully disagree with you.



posted on Apr, 5 2013 @ 11:20 AM
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Originally posted by Bleeeeep
reply to post by tetra50
 


I'm sorry, but I can't be any more clear in what I think is happening: It is “they”. The fallen ones. The angels cast down from heaven.

Your denial is expressed in your unreceptive rebuttals and in the very opening post of this thread. You are hostile to any conclusion that is not derived from technological thought propagation or the efforts of some special agency that targets random people.

Ilk may have been a bad choice of words, since it is often used in a derogatory manner; but I assure you, I meant no disrespect when I wrote it. I just meant the other people who have the same conclusions as you. It is easier for me, and you, if I repeatedly write ilk, rather than write: All the victims who believe they suffer from technological thought propagation and well choreographed stalking.

Further, I use other words like superficial in their naturally neutral form as well. If you see me say superficial then I am saying it in an atypical manner such as “the surface of an issue; something that is not the root of the issue”, and not the typical derogatory manner which is “stupidly obvious; vein opinion”. It's only because I have a lack of vocabulary, and not because I'm rude.

As for your answers to my questions: Although you asked us not to, I guess I should have started out by asking you what your symptoms were. And I'm sorry if it offends you, but it is the only way we can identify with what you are saying. Further, and mostly rhetorical for your sake: When you start to have experiences do you not then dwell and attempt to block them? If so, do you not suffer physical effects when you do so? Do you really not hear strange sounds? I have a feeling you are not being 100% honest.

If you insist that we must share you opinion. Then I must apologize, because I cannot do that. I have read over, and studied, far too many things that dictate, to me, that what is happening is not the superficial conclusions you have come to.

I'll just leave you be. Sincerely, good luck.


Now, with your last response, we are getting somewhere. Thank you so much for your expanded explanation of your thoughts and the meaning behind certain words you intended.

Actually, I am not at all hostile to your way of seeing this, but did not find you made this very clear in your earlier responses to me. The way I see this, is like the disagreement for so long between science and religion, when both are equally possible and do nothing to disallow the truth of the other. Science seeks to explain the mechanics of life, while religion seeks to show the sacredness and spiritual nature of it: Both add to the "how and why," and don't necessarily negate one another.

This is how I see this, and this is how I see, as well, your take on what I tried to discuss here. I apologize if you perceived me as being hostile to anything less than my own belief. I think this may be an example of poor communication when more explaining was necessary, but neither of us being particularly clear about our approach.

I think your assessment is entirely possible and valid. What I am addressing is the mechanics of the method. If you wish to approach it in this different vein, this is no less valid, and then prayer certainly does offer what I asked for, a way for those attacked to find solace, which was really the point of my OP, so I thank you very much for returning and expounding upon your earlier statements. I just could not get a grip on where you were coming from in your earlier posts. So, please accept my apologies, and I did not intend a hostility to those who did not agree, but clarity about what was in disagreement.....

Ultimately, though, if someone feeling they are in this position reads what any and all of us wrote here, and finds strength in any part thereof, then the purpose of the OP was served.

As for my being 100% honest, the OP was never really intended to be about me or what I do or do not suffer or experience. I tried very hard to make that clear in the OP, because I see so many threads about this subject derailed by attacking the writer so as not to get anywhere in solutions.....ie, see a doctor for schizophrenia, there are meds for people like you, etc.
I choose to reveal personally what I choose. It was not intended to be personal. It was intended to be supportive, compassionate and provide solace for those who suffer. Degeneration in the thread to any hostility when that was its intent has left me very sad, and even less hopeful for the conundrum humanity faces.
I see it sort of like an intimate relationship: when it becomes more about who is right or wrong with you and your partner, rather than loving and supporting and caring about the feelings of said partner, it is all but over---because it has then degenerated to a competition of ego.



posted on Apr, 5 2013 @ 11:24 AM
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reply to post by Bleeeeep
 


Thank you again for your participation, and I ask that you might read over again some of our exchanges, as I don't think you were very clear about what you think is happening, until your last reply to me. And this was the root of my hostility and rejection. That, and the constant need to focus on my "symptoms," when what I asked for in the OP was clearly compassion, and solutions and solace for those suffering, not for someone to validate my particular personal experience, which may differ quite a bit from others. This, I feel, is what bogs these threads down in a manner where no one is served and the purpose hidden behind total obfuscation and denial.

I do not wish to deny anything. But our responses to one another were a question of my not understanding at all what is was that you were attributing such things to.



posted on Apr, 5 2013 @ 11:40 AM
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Originally posted by Dantose
[Continued from above]

One thing that really has me thinking though, is the marginal benefit to the perpetrator. Sure, one person loses the mental will or capacity to fight the machine. How big of a threat is that person? Certainly not big enough to merit a full scale infestation of resources into every aspect of the victim's life, right? Is the victim somebody who could possibly become a leader against the machine? Doubtful, seeing that seemingly random individuals are becoming victims; individuals that are not associated with leading even small groups. That led me to the thought of a deeper, but completely baseless, idea towards the spiritual/mystical. I want to stress that this is mostly fanciful and somewhat religious, meaning there is no science to it. Since so many people seem to be screaming about the end times, rapture, and yada yada, what if there was something deeper to it? What if there really is some good vs. evil motif? What if a clear and alert mind, coupled with meditation or spiritual reflection could lead to deeper insight on a spiritual level, and those that are ultimately seen as being threats are not true threats to the current political state, but a threat to a completely evil and truly devastating entity which some of the rapturists seem to belive that TPTB are trying to manifest?

One final thought to end on. One of my favorite quotes is from the game Skyrim. One NPC mentions to your character, "Remember, your mind is the greatest weapon you have".
edit on 5-4-2013 by Dantose because: (no reason given)
edit on 5-4-2013 by Dantose because: no raisin given


I am truly blown away by the thought and depth of your replies here, and want to thank you so much for that.
And I agree with much of your assessments, whether the "mechanics" of what I propose are what they are or not.
Having said that, I looked but, alas, could not find a latin term repeated here on ATS in a thread for what possible perpetrators, seeking to keep us all in an unrealized, unactualized state so that the nature of our spirituality remains wholly negative; the term directly applied to loss of the soul, and inherent personal and individual consciousness, to keep us reacting and malleable to serve such ends as evil.

Thanks so much for all you added to the thread.



posted on Apr, 5 2013 @ 11:49 AM
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Originally posted by tetra50
reply to post by daskakik
 

First, I desire no "dictatorship," and find it incredibly amusing and ironic, given the nature of my op, that you would twist my reponses to this strange level.

You have actually told me to leave the thread if I didn't want to discuss things on your terms so, despite you saying the opposiste, your actions show otherwise.


If it does exist, then it being the last stance of humanity to protect the only sacred thing we have left, our minds, thoughts, intellect, would seem to make it exactly that, the last bastion of a battle for our inherent, God given rights as a form of life, born to, with hope, reach self actualization without interference
or control, directly of our thoughts, which allows for not only a complete control over us, but dictates of necessity being what it is, what our fates will be and how we will be defined historically and how our lives will progress or not. Romantic?

The first word in your response is "If". That is the reason that people like me ask for proof. Without it then that "if" seems to be pretty big.

Then there is the fact that even if it is happening, it may be happening for a different reason and in a way different to the one you describe.


Sorry, I fail to see any romanticism about this topic.

Then you must not understand what it means to "romanticize" something.

You want counter measures? All I can say is that not believing in it has worked for me.


edit on 5-4-2013 by daskakik because: (no reason given)



posted on Apr, 5 2013 @ 11:52 AM
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Originally posted by daskakik
reply to post by Dantose
 

The idea in your post is what I believe Bleeeeep and Ophiuchus were aluding to in their posts. It isn't really targeting but rather the standard MO across the board. As I stated in a previous post, I don't think it falls in line with the OP. It wouldn't be a technological tool develped by men to control other men. It would slip into a different area.
edit on 5-4-2013 by daskakik because: (no reason given)


Perhaps I should reread my own op,
, for i wasn't really going for any targeting angle at all here. And I don't disagree that this a standard "MO" as you assert. And what you say about it not falling in lilne with the OP, in some ways I agree with, and was trying to say when you pulled the "dictator" stuff on me.
We all like to write a thread, and hope to stick to the boundaries outlined within it. I don't know if that's so much tyranny, or just wanting to have a specific kind of discussion.

You may want to read my response to Bleeep, after the member explained more fully what they were trying to say, which I do not feel was clearly stated until a lot of arguing and what they perceived as hostility, when words were used without any explanations. Not all of us understand being lumped into an "ilk," or what fallen ones really means, without further explanation.

There are many, and varied types of inculcation and control, in our environment, outward, obvious, as such. I alluded to gangstalking as such. But it is tangential, really, in what I intended to address here, though it certainly plays a circumstantial role. Publicly we are surrounded by advertising and symbology in our "institutions," which seek to inculcate, I feel. But then, there are more direct, personal, assaults, and the mechanics of which are quite deleterious to people who suffer from them, for whatever reason, and the nature of those mechanics make it almost impossible to prove or assert, though we have plenty of documentation, scientifically and "officially," that such mechanical methods are applied to the population.

But as I said to Bleeep, I see our disagreement as something akin to science and religion, poor analogy because religion, I believe, doesn't have much to do with the spirituality or lack thereof of consciousness. However, if you could just go with me in the analogy, science seeks to explore the mechanics of the existence and how it came to be and works. While the religious, investment in faith and spirituality (all different things, but here apply to a general belief structure and nod to the innermost parts of humanity), view all of existence from a different angle.
But neither really disallows the other. The mechanics of how something works, technologically or otherwise, are just the way in which the spirit is affected.



posted on Apr, 5 2013 @ 12:31 PM
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Originally posted by Bluesma
reply to post by tetra50
 


My first thought is-
This is why we have mental health professionals.
If one needs help, why go to an internet discussion forum??? Seriously! Few people here are able to be a constructive and receptive aid in such matters, and even if they are, by nature, this mode of communication seriously limits exchanges.

I do think these things can be possible: many things are possible. Some things really happen to some people, and the same things are imagined as happening to others.

One of the things a mental healthcare professional learns to do is suspend judgement and simply be receptive.
That is actually very hard for many people to do. Sometimes it is what we need most though.

Something my shrink parents explained to me long ago and that stuck in my head was that

Actually, a pretty significant percentage of child sexual abuse and incest cases are not real- they are false memories. (there are many psychological mechanisms that cause this)
But
When it comes to the victim, it doesn't matter whether it really happened or not.
Real or imagined, it has the SAME effects in the long term. The same psychologcial damage, blockages, fears, defenses, etc.

So unless the goal is to bring charges against someone, that is not relevant to their need for support and aid.

I always found this a rather important insight. It is applicable in so many areas, and becomes the very base of compassion. Someone whp believes they are in hell IS. And it is going to be a bit more complicated to get them out than to just tell them they aren't.

Sure, as you go down the road together, you might find more and more evidence as to whether it is real (in the objective sense) or not, but unless you are both walking that path together, it isn't going to do them any good.

Ah, I don't know. When I had strange experiences, I went to a shrink. I didn't ask strangers on the internet to help me. There are times when real human contact and presence is preferable to a computer screen.
edit on 5-4-2013 by Bluesma because: (no reason given)


As usual, I find your comments elucidating and pertinent, and always giving a valid and well explained viewpoint. Thank you, as such, for your participation in this thread.

As for what you said, in many ways I agree. Absolutely I agree with your assessment of whatever one perceives they are going through, and the reality of the pain of the effect, regardless of the situation, "real" or perceived. In fact, we live in a world these days where even science questions whether perception actually makes reality.
Anyway, regardless of all that, I don't disagree, either, about seeking help of the kind you suggest. Except that, I don't think this is something solved by medication, and that this route may, in fact, do more damage than good, numbing the receptors of perception that may, in fact, leave someone even more open to something actually happening in full reality.
The other thing about that, is, once the stigma or branding of it being a "false memory," is such happens by the estimation of a mental health professional, this can make even more a victim out of someone who is already in a state of victimization, and does nothing to free them.

I don't suggest here getting help from an internet forum. And this OP was not really, once again, intended to be about me. I have read many threads from many members on this board about suffering through what I describe.
There have been senate hearings, laws passed, etc. And still, people coming out of the woodwork, so to speak, describing horrible events in their lives that have left them broken. Many of them have sought the help you describe, only to find themselves branded with a diagnosis that may, in fact, increase the chances of their continued vicitimization, and allow possible perpetrators to continue on to new victims.

I sought here, to look for strategies for fighting for those who assert this is what they live with, to track down possible perpetrators of it, in the interest of stopping it. I sought to provide a thread where those who deal with this, whether most believe them or not, could find support, compassion, solace, and maybe a few ideas to fight back.

I would pose it to you this way: If a relative or friend were raped, physically, and no one supported their reporting the incident, or believed them, or pursued the perpetrator, then that sadist is free to go on, and move on to the next victim. Wouldn't we all agree that we wouldn't want that to happen, for someone else's innocence and peace of mind, and road to self actualization to be forever interrupted because of the trauma that will never leave
them?

I am not suggesting coming to an internet forum for such a serious problem. But surely, there is an inbetween ground, con't



posted on Apr, 5 2013 @ 12:32 PM
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Originally posted by tetra50
Perhaps I should reread my own op,
, for i wasn't really going for any targeting angle at all here.

Maybe you should because your exact words were:

gang stalking and targeting individuals (for this is part and parcel and strongly linked in what I describe)


All through the rest of the thread you keep saying that they are tangential when you didn't seem to think they were in the OP plus, you don't name anything else but, simply alude to direct mind control techniques.


But then, there are more direct, personal, assaults, and the mechanics of which are quite deleterious to people who suffer from them, for whatever reason, and the nature of those mechanics make it almost impossible to prove or assert, though we have plenty of documentation, scientifically and "officially," that such mechanical methods are applied to the population.

That is the straw man I mentioned in my first post. Are people who believe to be targets of these methods really targets of these methods or do they believe they are because there exists documentation of these methods?



posted on Apr, 5 2013 @ 12:35 PM
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than just seeking mental health professionals who will largely come to the conclusion that this is delusion, and best medicated, when if that, indeed is what happens to the person, their credibility would be destroyed as to their own perceptions about what's happened and what may happen in the future to them. This perpetuates their victimization, in many cases, solving nothing for them, and in fact, sometimes it is the final piece in the puzzle of sealing their fate of it never stopping, if in fact, what they experience is from a predatory individual or group using them for whatever motivation.

So why come to an internet site for such a serious thing? Because if you read the plethora of threads from purported "victims," there are many suffering, searching for answers, and they've already been down the road you suggest, and it got them nowhere. However, I do not argue that this can sometimes be the only recourse.



posted on Apr, 5 2013 @ 12:41 PM
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reply to post by Bluesma
 





So unless the goal is to bring charges against someone, that is not relevant to their need for support and aid.



I guess that is more in line with the purpose of the op, really. For those who have reported suffering such things to have a "safe" thread to go to, compare their experiences, and perhaps find advice from people who have been able to prove this, isolate the perpetrators and get some action taken. It has, in fact, happened in the past. And this was what I was aiming for.



posted on Apr, 5 2013 @ 12:44 PM
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Originally posted by Dantose
reply to post by Bluesma
 


Honestly, your advice is very good advice to somebody experiencing all of the symptoms of schizophrenia or similar mental disease. I do feel however that your response is off topic from the OP. Certainly, the first reply could have been "See a psychiatrist" and the thread could end there, but this is a hypothetical thread, in the gray area board. The OP did not say anything along the lines of currently experiencing these symptoms but only asked for a hypothetical discussion on the topic. The response you gave is a very wise, real-world response, but it doesn't answer any hypothetical questions or allow for discussion of other possibilities of the hypothetical nature of OPs topic. I truly don't mean to come off as rude, only clarifying the nature of the discussion.
edit on 5-4-2013 by Dantose because: (no reason given)


Though I found Bluesma's response relevant, in a way, as she went on, other points were made. But I want to thank you very much for getting what I was trying to do in the OP, and supporting me in that, with no disrespect meant to the comments by Bluesma.



posted on Apr, 5 2013 @ 12:48 PM
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Originally posted by Bluesma
reply to post by Dantose
 


I was aware that it had evolved to focus upon the technological probabilities, but my post was a direct response to this one-




What would you do? Try to walk in those described shoes and the path they are set upon without any control of the individual, forced to walk this path with compassion, and give some honest feedback about what could someone suffering this do? Who would you appeal to? How would you go about exposing what is happening to you, and finding the source in order to stop it?


(I should have used the quote function to make that more clear)
This was my answer to those particular questions. They are what I would do, they are what I DID do, when I had experiences of abduction against my will.

When it comes to questions of mind control, and obstruction of personal will, the very first step is strengthening the will and self empowerment... and another person simply taking you seriously enough to be there and be receptive without judgement builds that.

"Exposing what is happening to you" begins with finding a suitable person to expose it to.
"Finding the source", I propose, is not necessary to stop it.

For example, I developed a technique which fought those moments when I was "paralyzed" and unable to oppose manipualtions of my body by the beings I percieved. As I observed a certain way of canalizing and focusing emotional energy had an influence on them and that experience, I worked on strengthening it until I could blow them off and release my body from the paralyzation. I taught my son to do the same.

Ultimately, I do not know if the "beings" were real (though they seemed so to my senses) or if they were hallucinations. It doesn't matter though. My technique was effective.

It could have been an effective way of waking myself from sleep paralysis, or overcoming temporary psychotic shifts with my mind -
or it could have been a way of blocking mind and body control from extra-terrestrial or multi dimensional beings.
It doesn't matter to me. That is my point about this hypothetical sufferer of mind control technology- they need help finding a way to fight this experience, not convince others of it!



edit on 5-4-2013 by Bluesma because: (no reason given)


Absolutely. And thanks muchly for this, Bluesma. These are the comments and suggestions I was looking for. But I always hold out hope that such can be proven in the wider arena of say, a search for justice, an identifying of the perpetrators, and a final end to such. However, again, thank you, especially for elucidating quite clearly your last statement here. That is exactly the point: fighting, without the onus of proof, which only drags out and steals the very energy these folks need to fight.



posted on Apr, 5 2013 @ 01:12 PM
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reply to post by tetra50
 



Okay your points are well taken and valid.

I think where I don't agree is the idea that going to a mental health professional would result in the experience being branded as "a false memory" or otherwise not real. This is what I tried to illustrate (and perhaps did not do so well) is that (depending upon who you go to), they can suspend judgement- meaning NOT judge the experience as real or not. That is really essential, because I agree that it could be counterproductive to have it judged as not real.

In my own experience, I went to a psychoanalyst (the only english speaking shrink I could find around here) and he did not judge my experiences. He kept it open, he listened and he was compassionate- he empathized with feelings and was sympathetic. He did not, however, have answers for me. (except telling me he did not think I was schizophrenic, or psychotic).

For me that had a comforting effect in itself- there was a release of pressure, fear and panic in just being heard and validated in my experiences. So I could STOP asking myself "Is this real? Am I crazy?" and worrying about how I could tell this to someone and be taken seriously.
I was able to move on then to the next step- finding a solution.

What I mean by that is to start experimenting. Try things, observe associations, possible causes and effects, ways in which I could influence the experience, and develop what I find.

If you see an animal get stuck in a trap, one of the things it does is to move chaotically in all sorts of movements . If some movement has an effect of some sort on their position, they will try again- then try it in combination with something else, I feel this is an effective way of finding solutions. In this sort of a situation we are hypothesizing, I tried a sort of "mental" experimentation (instead of the physical kind in my example of the animal), until I started finding some answers.

You can't do this if you are convinced you are powerless, turning more into the animal that goes blank and limp with fear. I guess I am coming from the point of view that our mind and will is very powerful and might be able to wrestle even with various types of technology.

Your point about "future victims" is a good one too, and I admit my position does not attempt to deal with it- I think that is partly my own notions of a deeper will that chooses everything we experience- even victimization.

Sometimes we choose it if even to teach our mind and body certain skills in fighting it!- Like in this case, being a victim of this sort, and learning how to NOT go looking for an exterior element to save you, but instead find the power within.

That became a skill that I use to this day and was invaluable.

My only answer to the problem of other victims is to try to share what I learned, and nudge other people in that direction if they express a desire for it.
edit on 5-4-2013 by Bluesma because: (no reason given)





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