I stand by my comparison as it was framed around the oil blockade that catalyzed the response from Japan . You sir are trying to re-frame my reference
which is misleading to my original post using a straw man argument to negate my comparison and divert from its comparison
Only if you fail to take into account. All the Japanese invasions and aggression in Asia starting in 1931. Which was why the blockade and sanctions
were imposed. That is why these are two completely and different scenarios. If you have to state half the known history of a situation, to prove your
point, you are only giving half the truth.
Your second paragraph: Rambling typical fear referenced response. I have already framed my opinion on that if you had taken the time to read it. You
finalize that paragraph by projecting that I have that particular point of view. My point of view was stated previously and is clearly different
No my reply was to your first response. You had not finalized your thoughts, that I did read in your later post.
Here's is part of your first post.............
If we do not learn from the lessons of history we are doomed to repeat them
That is what the U.S and S Korea are trying to do. Remember how the war started a sneak attack???
As for the B-2 bombers. The U.S has been flying B-52 near the N korean border for 50 yearss they are nuclear capable.
If you don't think that sort of "Defensive Exercise" is threatening then I'm afraid the ignorance has already set in.
Now that you have a source (I tried not to stoop to your level ) "whose ignorance has set in"? Read the link b-52's are routine, they are also
nuclear bombers. Yet the biased press and you choose's to rant about 3, B-2's. You can speculate all you want about who you think is behind things.
But maybe a little research would help before you start stating "fact's"
There's a real simple way to get most American's to understand why NK would be a bit peeved.
The only difference between "Gun control" and how that makes you feel.. and "Nuke control" and how it makes NK feel.. well.... there isn't much
of a difference, in many ways it's almost a direct parallel and the arguments for and against are much the same.
Before im flamed into oblivion.. have a hard think about that, Your country is up in arms about their right to bear them.. but your gov pushes it's
agenda to disarm you.. and it sucks doesn't it? now imagine if your a highly strung nation, who is "technically" still at war, yet constantly
policed by outsiders to disarm.. that'd ... kinda really suck.
I fail to see a difference in the two, other than the scope. Not making excuses for anyone here, but i do feel it's a thing many need to see, a part
of the understanding process that's missing from the equation, I highly doubt the PR machine would highlight it either.. ever.. so I am.
And yep, when you find your neighbour's with an atlas looking for Guam, and spouting off pure MSM rhetoric, you know the media is swinging this
towards destruction.. even the sleeping sheep are shaking, here's hoping juLIE & Bobby boy don't earn us all a stray nuke.. and if that's so...
well.. we marked your target with a big X and a flag.. and placed it sqarley on a hill.... even circled it for you, you just.. cant.. miss
You didn't answer the question you are arguing that the a different model nuclear capable plane has been doing routine "training" along their border
for 50 years so its not a catalyst. Consider that another country hostile to the US did this along the US border then remember what they did in the
Cuban Missile Crisis.
Also you are using the same Strawman at the start of your response to negate my comparison which is still valid.
" If we do not learn from the lessons of history we are doomed to repeat them"
"That is what the U.S and S Korea are trying to do. Remember how the war started a sneak attack??? "
I am not arguing as to what US and SK intentions are. I think that the NK regime record is atrocious and I have said so multiple times already in this
I'm discussing/referencing catalysts which have historically been shown to cause a result.
Combine that with a country with Nuclear capability and its a formula for disaster.
Ok I will answer that question. If they U.S had launched a sneak attack into Mexico nearly defeated the country. Then the U.N with Australia, England
and a 100 other countries in tow had supplied a force to defeat us. Then set up a boundary for us to stay behind, and after that we starved our
people, made threats, launched commando raids into Mexico, sank their ships, shelled their islands. Yes I would be fine with them keeping us honest.
Ok first I am tired of you saying I am setting up a strawman arguement, When I am using you staetments. Here's a definition of a strawman
: a weak or imaginary opposition (as an argument or adversary) set up only to be easily confuted
You set up the strawman I am using your quoted statements. That term often comes out of someone's mouth when they can't defend their statements.
I'm discussing/referencing catalysts which have historically been shown to cause a result.
Yes you are doing that, but you are failing to give the reasons, for the references and catalysts. Basicaly you state that even though both Japan and
Korea had done evil things to to their people and people of other countries. They should all be forgiven how could any other power take offence to or
dare take steps to defend theirselfs. We should all hold hands and sing kumbia.
You also are singling out the U.S, while ignoring the fact that the sanctions were imposed by the U.N. They were approved by the security council upon
which China and Russia also sit.
I've already explained myself in regards to my call about your Strawman which came from changing the reference frame of the original statement I made
and by doing so my comparison was invalid. It is a common tactic used to render ones post invalid on forums to the point of being textbook.
"Yes you are doing that, but you are failing to give the reasons, for the references and catalysts. " Reasons have been stated in depth I'm not going
to repeat myself just because you are stating otherwise in this post.
"Basicaly you state that even though both Japan and Korea had done evil things to to their people and people of other countries. They should all be
forgiven how could any other power take offence to or dare take steps to defend theirselfs. We should all hold hands and sing kumbia. "
I have stated no such thing please refer to the post where I inferred or stated this. Again you are projecting a false assumption and statement of my
intent another textbook tactic.
"You also are singling out the U.S, while ignoring the fact that the sanctions were imposed by the U.N. They were approved by the security council
upon which China and Russia also sit. "
Well this is a partial truth to sell the rest of your story I did use the US as a historical reference in my original and have been referring to said
original historical reference for several posts now as you have tried to rewrite and re-frame my intended point to make it seem inaccurate . So by
"singling out" if you mean I have had to repeat myself several times then yes. This thread is topical and it involves several forefront players who
are relevant to it. I do appreciate that there are many other parties with hands in the cookie jar
Oh in case your trying to play the US hater card My Grandfather and Father both served honorably in the US Military my Grandfather in the Korean war.
I disagree with policy which I see as inflammatory and history repeating itself. I have no hate for US I also have no desire to see another war
catalyzed into being by the decisions of those who have the ability to not antagonize and instead build bridges which is another term for work it out.
(I believe my historical reference was the 80s where ReganGorb sorted it.)
I need to log off now other stuff to do but if you can't see what my original historical comparison was about then that's your sight and your entitled
to it. It does not make it any less valid. As to the original thread topic from where I am I do see the typical biias one would see in the lead up to
an escalation which is very concerning.
You cant build bridges with North Korea, they don't want to be friends how is this so to understand. They want a nuclear war, they are so
disillusioned and what I call stupid that they think they can pick a fight and win it. I say give the people what they want, Iraq them down the drain.
I made another thread with this a few days ago but it didn't really get any attention so I figured I would post it here. A unique and interesting look
inside the daily life of the people of the DPRK.
In the first episode they visit the Victorious Fatherland Liberation War Museum, which gives a unique depiction of the Korean War as seen by the DPRK.
The museum contains captured weapons, aircraft and armor from the US Forces, and also a massive 3-dimensional panorama of the Liberation of Kaesong
which is seen as one of the major victories for the DPRK during the war. They also visit the mausoleum of Kim il Sung and the cemetary devoted to the
martyrs that fell during the revolution.
They see the location along the DMZ where joint talks were held between the North, South and the US leading to the creation of the separate countries.
The room literally sits right on the border between the two countries, with a table in the middle that sits one half on the North side and one half on
The crew also visits the Children's Palace, a massive complex dedicated to the youth of the country. It becomes apparent that musical and performing
arts play a very significant role within the culture and day to day life of the people. They also visit several schools to get a view of the education
system, sitting down with students in their classrooms and participating in sports such as basketball.
At the end of the second episode they visit the May Day Stadium, which has the capacity to seat 150,000 people, the largest in the entire world, and
enjoy what the North Koreans call the "Mass Games" which involves over 100,000 performers performing in unison for over an hour and a half. Quite an
As they are leaving the country you can't help but get this sad yet enlightening feeling that the people of the DPRK are actually no different from
any of us. Daily life is just as normal as everywhere else, with people smiling at the cameras, stopping to talk and indulging foreigners in the
customs of their country. Though it is a nation dominated by its military, I honestly hope another war does not break out in the region which would
lead to the devastation of these people.
edit on 5-4-2013 by Konduit because: (no reason given)
Originally posted by kwakakev
I know there is already a heap of threads about North Korea, so this is more about how it is being perceived and shown to the public at large through
the main media outlets.
Here in Australia there is very much a negative tone with North Korea being blamed for all the provocation while America is shown to be the reluctant
hero upgrading the defenses. There has been no balanced and fair reporting explaining why NK is annoyed or the full role that America has played in
these events, like trade sanctions, seizure of bank accounts and upgrading assault capabilities in the region.
Unfortunately this type of reporting does remind me very much of the media campaigns against Saddam Hussein and Gaddafi before the military campaigns
kicked of to help build public support. How is the media in your country showing these events?
Are you kidding? They've explained both sides.
N. Korea is upset about the economic sanctions pressed against them because they want to attain nuclear weapons.. I do not feel sorry for N. Korea,
they have been doing this for over 40 years.
Originally posted by Shirak
As a student of history I see the same provocation occurring that lead to the bombing of Pearl harbor.
Backing someone up against the wall no matter how small will always end in a fight or flight scenario.
If the little guy just happens to have access to weapons well he may just use them.
Let me be clear I am not apologizing/justifying for the threats now occurring I am making an observation.
My grandfather was in the last Korean war and it was horror which still affects him today.
If we do not learn from the lessons of history we are doomed to repeat them.
Who is really pulling the strings and pushing the buttons to make this thing happen I mean really war is just good business for certain interests.
Meanwhile the youth of the world get thrown into the meat grinder. i choose to agree with your statement i dont wish to see any wars i choose to be a
difference in this world
I have not heard one mention of the similarities of these 2 scenarios in the media. Starving a country of supplies puts them in a very tight position
as does flying nuclear capable bombers near their border.
Look at the Cuban Missile Crisis. The U.S. almost did the same thing NK is doing now. Here's an idea instead of insulting their leader perhaps people
should take a page out of Reagan's book. If you want to see the horror of Nukes try visiting your local war museum. Try visiting Pearl Harbor it will
make you think twice about the PsiOps the media produces to create Warmongering.
We are all human we are caretakers of this world Imagine it better then be the change you want to see. I choose to see a world where healing happens
From your reply I take it that you are from Australia, if not what country are you from and which media source was used? Also was the US military
maneuvers discussed along with the NK military maneuvers? I do not watch a lot of tv these days, but when I do most of the fear is directed at Kim
rather than this long, complex and messy situation. It is good to hear that there some attempts to try and understand this.
Some of it has made it to ATS, like the homeless people living of pigeons and a heap of other things that caused a lot of outcry on these boards.
Generally for the North Korea official position the best source is www.kcna.co.jp... . They do tend to call the US imperialist and
South Korea the puppet government a fair bit which does not help the situation.
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