The media portrayal of North Korea

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posted on Apr, 4 2013 @ 08:29 PM
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South Korea has already told the US that we are the problem and to back off. According to them if the US leaves Kim alone he will go back to his old self and take a nap for awhile like a good child. However instead Obama sends more bombers that way. This tells me that the US doesn't give a darn at all. When the south tells us to leave it alone we need to start listening. But Obama doesn't listen to anyone.




posted on Apr, 4 2013 @ 08:29 PM
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Originally posted by kwakakev
reply to post by Wrabbit2000
 


The nuclear issue is a big headline behind this, much like the WDM debate with Iraq. The hypocrisy of this staggering and not a rule of law, but rule of power. Now that NK is in the MAD club there is only reason for them to use them, they are dead anyway. The only threat against the South is if they are to invade.

Try putting yourself in their position, how would the US respond if they where forced to give up their nukes? The answer would be quite clear and they would give them up by launching them at the aggressor. The nuclear issue is not one that can be forced without the destruction of cities. Trust is at an all time low and trust is the only way to take away the nuclear threat in a safe manner. Now that NK cannot even trust the banking system there is a long way to go to get out of this mess.


Put myself in their position? Well, if I had millions of starving people, perhaps I would have started by not spending 20-40% of the entire national GDP on military development and nuclear warhead design. That would be my FIRST big difference.

This has absolutely no comparison to Iraq. Iraq was a basket full of maybe's could be's and "trust us...he really does have them..even tho he says he doesn't". Kim declares them a national treasure and has outright said he is GOING to nuke the United States. Now, do I believe him? I'm honestly not sure.... Some things suggest that maybe he actually CAN ... Most say he can't. However, the fact we're even having this chat is a result of HIS threats to murder millions of people in a nano-second of brilliant light and radiating heat.

If he hadn't repeatedly and proudly declared his intentions to become the world's largest mass murderer, in history .. (Serious or NOT.. Some bells can't be unrung), the world would still be pumping food aid into his suffering and starving nation to keep his own people fed ..since HE obviously can't. He's too busy building weapons to threaten people with.

Kinda like an alcoholic..ya know? I don't care if someone drinks themselves into a pickle jar. Not my concern....until they neglect their family, friends and start impacting ME with their 'issue'. Then it's a BIG problem for everyone. He's addicted to bright new shiny things that go KABOOM in the night. It's unhealthy with millions in dire conditions of abject poverty and outright starvation. (Google Earth..anyone can use it..and you can zoom into any Korean village as easily as the parking lot of your local theater to look)
edit on 4-4-2013 by Wrabbit2000 because: (no reason given)



posted on Apr, 4 2013 @ 08:32 PM
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reply to post by Hopechest
 


I do agree their actions have been atrocious in many ways as have many countries in this world. Are our collective hands free of blood?

I remember the 80's when the nuclear rhetoric and paranoia of Russia was ingrained even in the school yard. I remember it took leaders to lead away from the rhetoric and steer both sides from the brink to break down the walls. If was done before it can be done again I have faith in humanity. I remember all the things said about Russia and Russians. Years later one of my greatest friends was Russian something I could never have imagined in the 80s due to the media portrayal of a people we share the world with.

Flying Nuclear Capable bombers near their borders surely catalyzed these latest threats just as the Cuban missile crisis did. The sanctions which have been in place have isolated them surely this has lead to furthering the current mentality just as I suspect it catalyzed Japans.

Several major interests stand to make huge amounts of money from war and the rebuilding efforts it would be refreshing to see a spotlight put on them and who they are financing in the senate. It worked for Monsanto why not the industrial complex? War is just business for some people it has been that way for many a year.



posted on Apr, 4 2013 @ 08:46 PM
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reply to post by Hopechest
 




I would reply that they are causing the sanctions by their actions and therefore we should not back down but squeeze tighter.


That is the position that is being portrayed in the media, so you do have some very wealthy and powerful people taking a similar mindset. So considering the effects and ongoing troubles Iraq and Afghanistan do you really think that this is the best solution?

Considering the western stand down in Syria because of Russia, how are they going to factor in with any change of leadership in North Korea? And what about the more regional influential China? By squeezing harder it does increase the risk that NK will use their weapons, is this what you want? What steps are being taken to mitigate the risk of WWII picking up where things left off?

Have you thought about the long term consequences, new wounds and ongoing troubles that will still be there once the bullets stop flying? If you cannot sort out these problems now what makes you think you will be able to sort them out after a heap of infrastructure is destroyed and another big pile of bodies remain?



posted on Apr, 4 2013 @ 09:07 PM
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reply to post by AuntC
 


Thanks for this insight, do you have any media links? It is expected that South Korea will have a better understanding of the situation than most.



posted on Apr, 4 2013 @ 09:12 PM
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Originally posted by kwakakev
reply to post by Hopechest
 




I would reply that they are causing the sanctions by their actions and therefore we should not back down but squeeze tighter.


That is the position that is being portrayed in the media, so you do have some very wealthy and powerful people taking a similar mindset. So considering the effects and ongoing troubles Iraq and Afghanistan do you really think that this is the best solution?

Considering the western stand down in Syria because of Russia, how are they going to factor in with any change of leadership in North Korea? And what about the more regional influential China? By squeezing harder it does increase the risk that NK will use their weapons, is this what you want? What steps are being taken to mitigate the risk of WWII picking up where things left off?

Have you thought about the long term consequences, new wounds and ongoing troubles that will still be there once the bullets stop flying? If you cannot sort out these problems now what makes you think you will be able to sort them out after a heap of infrastructure is destroyed and another big pile of bodies remain?


Great post by the way.

First of all, Russia is not really a player in the North Korea debate so you can remove them from the discussion. They are too far removed from influence to be anything but a voice in any UN action, of which they've already indicated they are either willing to side with the UN majority or stay neutral.

China on the other hand is the wildcard. We simply do not know, although we have a slight indication, which way China is leading. It appears, from recent comments, that they do not like the rhetoric coming out of NK but nothing definitive from them yet. All we can do is guess at their motivations.

We do know they will not allow a western power, or a western supported government to take control in NK so that right there limits our choices. We cannot know if our government is talking with China, though presumably they are, or what sort of arrangements might be in the process of being worked out. Remember that China did not stand in the way of increasing sanctions against NK so that would indicate they are indeed playing ball with the western powers.

As for NK setting off a nuke?

Extremely unlikely. Anyone who thinks Kim is actually fully in power does not know how succession works when a leader, especially a dictator dies. Kim has handlers, presumably the military command, and does not have full control of the country, probably very little control actually. The sanctions that have been in place for years have not even touched the leadership of NK and it wasn't until the recent batch, which hit their access to funds, that the leadership has started feeling the pinch. They don't really care what happens to their people.

Anyways, the leadership, military and political, have remained relatively unscathed and undoubtably like their lifestyles and power and if they are like all the other leaders throughout history, they will do what they have to in order to ensure their way of life doesn't change. This is why they will not launch an attack. They know what the end result will be, especially if China is talking with the west, which apparently they are. They also are in control of the country, not Kim, and are probably instructing him on what to say and what to do in order that they can get some sanctions lifted and return to their way of life.

If America doesn't play ball, which it appears Obama isn't, than I imagine the rhetoric will die down fairly quickly and they may offer up something else instead, such as inspector access to their country which they will quickly remove as usual and continue the same thing they've been doing for decades. I would imagine this is what their strategy is at the moment.

The problem I see for them though is that it appears their protector China is getting rather tired of having a nuclear threat, which appears unstable, sitting on their border. From a national security standpoint, it makes sense for China to want that threat removed. It would not surprise me if China is working out a plan to take over NK with the US, Britain, France, and Russia's blessing.



posted on Apr, 4 2013 @ 09:40 PM
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reply to post by Shirak
 


Read your whole post. I just couldn't get over the first line though.



As a student of history I see the same provocation occurring that lead to the bombing of Pearl harbor.


The same Provocation ? As a student of history do you recall Japan's invasion of Korea or China. Have you ever seen any footage of The Rape of Nanking.


To even compare the two event's show's a very small understanding of history.

As for Korea now, what do you suggest should be done. Everytime in the last 50 years that the U.S and S Korea have held military exercises one of the Kim's has puffed out their chest and made threats. Remember the Korean war was started with a surprise attack should everyone sit on their hands, and hope it doesn't happen again ?

As long as the U.S keeps a defensive posture I am ok with what is going on. If we jump the gun and go on the offensive I will be screaming along with you.

If there is a event that calls for a military response, it better be a big one. I hope it doesn't happen but it may.



posted on Apr, 4 2013 @ 09:46 PM
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reply to post by Hopechest
 


For arguments sake, lets say that China, Russia and America can all agree that that the current power structure in North Korea needs to go. Then there is going to be South Korea and Japan also involved in who and what will take it's place. Who will America stand behind when the regional bickering starts? What about China? I find it unlikely that SK and Japan will just sit and watch as China's boarder grows. North Korea does boarder with Russia, so to think that they are just going to sit back and watch is unlikely if regime change is on the table.

Sure, all these nations know there is a problem, but as for any clear solution and direction it just looks like making a big mess even bigger with military action the final solution to see who sits on top.



posted on Apr, 4 2013 @ 09:51 PM
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Originally posted by AuntC
South Korea has already told the US that we are the problem and to back off. .


Hmmmmm I missed that could you link me to the source?



posted on Apr, 4 2013 @ 09:56 PM
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Originally posted by kwakakev
reply to post by Hopechest
 


For arguments sake, lets say that China, Russia and America can all agree that that the current power structure in North Korea needs to go. Then there is going to be South Korea and Japan also involved in who and what will take it's place. Who will America stand behind when the regional bickering starts? What about China? I find it unlikely that SK and Japan will just sit and watch as China's boarder grows. North Korea does boarder with Russia, so to think that they are just going to sit back and watch is unlikely if regime change is on the table.

Sure, all these nations know there is a problem, but as for any clear solution and direction it just looks like making a big mess even bigger with military action the final solution to see who sits on top.


There won't be a debate. In order for us to get a regime change we will give China what they ask for. Japan and South Korea would have no seat at that table. It would be the 5 top powers making the decision. I imagine it would be a stable person, loyal to China, but non-threatening to the US. A Chinese puppet if you will but one we won't have to worry about without worrying about China also.



posted on Apr, 4 2013 @ 10:05 PM
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reply to post by Wrabbit2000

What if you reverse that situation.

The US is a passive country and has no interest in advancing armies around the continents.

Say, NK had been imposing itself in every nation and in places where it finds conflict, implements a standard of cuilture that to them is counter to everything they believe in.

And you as a nation get pissed that these guys are roaming unimpeded as the brutality of their strategies is only met by ever more barbaric strategies.. hence terrorism. or threaten NK with a strike unless they ease up.

I dunno, I get that it's their fault, the predicament they're in. I've seen footage of some training video and they're nuts, though. no point really wondering 'what ifs', when there's a load of 'there is' all over the place.
edit on 4-4-2013 by winofiend because: (no reason given)



posted on Apr, 4 2013 @ 10:10 PM
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Originally posted by FollowTheWhiteRabbit
Most of us want peace. Why is it that we cannot achieve it and fall right back into the beating of the drums?


Religion or politics.

Those who hold power in either, now corrupt the very thing it stands for.



posted on Apr, 4 2013 @ 10:13 PM
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Originally posted by winofiend

Originally posted by FollowTheWhiteRabbit
Most of us want peace. Why is it that we cannot achieve it and fall right back into the beating of the drums?


Religion or politics.

Those who hold power in either, now corrupt the very thing it stands for.


Hasn't it always been that way?

Sometimes there isn't even a difference between religion and politics, at least historically.



posted on Apr, 4 2013 @ 10:18 PM
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reply to post by AuntC
 


Along with others, I am interested to see the source for this post.
I have not seen anything saying that South Korea wants the US to back off.

South Korea gave their army permission to strike back immediately in defense if necessary, without needing approval from the top.
South Korea is in major defense mode, and are considering the situation dangerous.
They depend on the US, and seem to be glad for the assistance, as the South Korean army is no match for the resources of the North.



posted on Apr, 4 2013 @ 10:33 PM
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reply to post by winofiend
 


I hear ya on your point and I've said myself enough times that the U.S. has gone off the rails over the past 10+ years like a runaway train. Whatever happens to be in the way gets crushed flat and I swear our leaders barely look down to see what they ran over sometimes.


I honestly believe North Korea is in a class all it's own though. There is no nation remaining in the world that is closed like this one and whose people are suffering on such a large scale due strictly to willful mismanagement of the nation's business.

You may have a very valid point on any given number of places around the world and especially now. On this one though? Well, I can just say the same again. They're not JUST in a class all their own, they nearly invented a new one just for themselves.

How many other nations are almost totally closed to anyone in or out, claim in their own words on a regular basis that they need UN and US food aid just to keep their people alive, and have spent who knows how long, all the while, spending on the worst weapons man's ever devised to basically create the very problem they most whine about? I FEEL for the North Korea people...I truly do. 24 million people who did nothing wrong but be born within that area of land. I'll FEEL even better if a few of them solve the Kim problem 100% by Koreans and for Koreans. It's a loooong shot, but wouldn't that just be the best outcome all around?



posted on Apr, 4 2013 @ 10:41 PM
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reply to post by Wrabbit2000
 





I honestly believe North Korea is in a class all it's own though. There is no nation remaining in the world that is closed like this one and whose people are suffering on such a large scale due strictly to willful mismanagement of the nation's business


My sentiments exactly. I heard a news anchor sum it up pretty well. " North Korea is in a cold war time warp."



posted on Apr, 4 2013 @ 10:41 PM
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reply to post by Hopechest
 




There won't be a debate. In order for us to get a regime change we will give China what they ask for.


Ok, so you tarnish your reputation with South Korea and Japan to make you main adversary even stronger. To tackle the threat of nuclear weapons you instigate their use, millions die.

Then the next chapter in this saga starts, Iran. It has seen how the greater powers have concluded and knows it has two options, submit or die. Faced with such provocation it launches against Israel and even greater disharmony spreads throughout the middle east, perhaps even further as the multinational aspects of many nations sparks civil conflicts.



posted on Apr, 4 2013 @ 10:52 PM
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Originally posted by rockymcgilicutty
reply to post by Shirak
 


Read your whole post. I just couldn't get over the first line though.



As a student of history I see the same provocation occurring that lead to the bombing of Pearl harbor.


The same Provocation ? As a student of history do you recall Japan's invasion of Korea or China. Have you ever seen any footage of The Rape of Nanking.


To even compare the two event's show's a very small understanding of history.

As for Korea now, what do you suggest should be done. Everytime in the last 50 years that the U.S and S Korea have held military exercises one of the Kim's has puffed out their chest and made threats. Remember the Korean war was started with a surprise attack should everyone sit on their hands, and hope it doesn't happen again ?

As long as the U.S keeps a defensive posture I am ok with what is going on. If we jump the gun and go on the offensive I will be screaming along with you.

If there is a event that calls for a military response, it better be a big one. I hope it doesn't happen but it may.


First Paragrah:
I stand by my comparison as it was framed around the oil blockade that catalyzed the response from Japan . You sir are trying to re-frame my reference which is misleading to my original post using a straw man argument to negate my comparison and divert from its comparison.

Your second paragraph: Rambling typical fear referenced response. I have already framed my opinion on that if you had taken the time to read it. You finalize that paragraph by projecting that I have that particular point of view. My point of view was stated previously and is clearly different.

Your 3rd paragraph:I'm interested if NK flew B2 nuclear capable bombers near the US would that be considered "Defensive posture" My comparison to the Cuban missile crisis earlier is still a valid one. What I have observed is a repeat of similarities in history and I am writing about it.

If you don't think that sort of "Defensive Exercise" is threatening then I'm afraid the ignorance has already set in.
As I said my family has been deeply affected by the first Korean War I do understand the atrocities. Backing a leader into a corner where they feel Nukes are the only option is not and never will be the solution. That's my opinion and I'm not ashamed of it.



posted on Apr, 4 2013 @ 10:55 PM
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reply to post by Hopechest
 


It makes sense, I wonder just how much will be left if the keg does go off and when the dust settles to divide up amongst the players.



posted on Apr, 4 2013 @ 11:02 PM
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Originally posted by kwakakev
reply to post by Hopechest
 




There won't be a debate. In order for us to get a regime change we will give China what they ask for.


Ok, so you tarnish your reputation with South Korea and Japan to make you main adversary even stronger. To tackle the threat of nuclear weapons you instigate their use, millions die.

Then the next chapter in this saga starts, Iran. It has seen how the greater powers have concluded and knows it has two options, submit or die. Faced with such provocation it launches against Israel and even greater disharmony spreads throughout the middle east, perhaps even further as the multinational aspects of many nations sparks civil conflicts.


Perhaps this will be used as the Twin Towers catalyst to justify an incursion into Iran. Regardless of who blows what up the media will be told who it was and for the majority of the world that's how it will be and it will possibly be used as the justification to move into other "Rogue States"

Scenario:Nuke/or nuke like event explodes somewhere
Horrific scenes follow.
Unanimous agreement that this needs to be stopped from happening again.
Justification for any future incursions to shut down leaderships in Nuclear Capable "Rogue States" at least for another 10 years.

(BTW just tabling a possible scenario)
Just want to add this would be a nightmare scenario I 'm still hoping for the best.
edit on 4-4-2013 by Shirak because: add sum more





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