A question for people who are pro-abortion

Originally posted by Charmed707
reply to post by Honor93

 

Providing financially is a huge part of being a parent. Child support bills can be absolutely draining on a parent just scraping by.

never said it wasn't but it has nothing to do with "parenting".
and why are you stuck on child support anyway ?

the pregnancy has to make it to delivery before child support CAN be enacted, which was my original point and question ... that you refuse to answer

reply to post by Charmed707

I'm not interested in what you find 'offensive'.

clearly, civility desn't appear in your bag of tricks, does it ?

it is 'decided' as in, it will continue, with or without 'laws'.

back to the same question you refuse to answer.
which do you prefer ?
safe and clean OR risky and filthy ??


IF you pay taxes, you are already pampering murderers
it's a bit late to stomp your feet and cry foul.

Originally posted by Charmed707

Originally posted by Honor93

it would be, why would you think it wouldn't ?
forcing anyone to perform against their will is victimizing them.

First of all, pregnancy (with the exception of rape) is a result of conscious decisions.

not always and in this country, we aim to protect the rights of the 'few'.

If forcing others to respect the rights of others is victimizing them, then so be it. Murderers and rapists will deal.

hint: forcing anyone against their will is simply, UnAmerican ... let alone victimizing.

Originally posted by NorthBlizzard

Originally posted by watchitburn
Bottom line:

It is not your, mine, or anyone else's business what other people do with their body.
It is especially not the right of the Govt. to have any say in the matter.

Then why do we have suicide prevention hotlines and rehab centers?

soooo, you're suggesting women who have abortions don't receive counseling first ??
if so, you'd be horribly mistaken.

Originally posted by Charmed707

Originally posted by Jennyfrenzy

Thy didn't care that my 4 year old niece saw those pictures. They claim to be pro child yet they show pictures of fetuses to children.

Why would children seeing those pictures even be an issue at all if abortion was perfectly acceptable and not immoral at all? Children also see graphic pictures in their history books.

for the same reasons children are exluded from bars, porn and dancing girls
all of the above are 'acceptable' for adults.
do you entertain your children with a pole dance in a pub ??

you know, might not be my business, but I have an opinion, it's nae right, naw, it is wrong, wee bairns being destroyed

reply to post by James1982


It is very telling in your Title..... that you are Heavily Opinionated against Abortion.
And your Not just "asking a question".

The Proper Term is "People who are Pro Choice".

There is a recurring dream I had for many years - from the time I was a young girl and too young to even know what abortion is. This is totally serious. This is how my dream went every time.

I hear something - sounds like it is in the distance, and I have to strain to hear it.

After trying hard to listen, I start to realize it is a baby crying. I try to find the baby - to help it. I need to find the baby, because it is so sad, and needs someone.

As I keep listening in my search, I start to realize it is not one baby, it is many babies. The sound has not actually changed, It is like it is just becoming clearer. The crying gets louder and louder, til it is almost deafening, and yet it is as if the sound has not actually changed, just getting clearer. But there are so many babies, and they are crying in such distress, that it terrifies me, and I don't know how to help.

I try to find them. And it starts to become clearer. It is not babies. It is just people, as in adults. And they are not just crying. They are screaming in terror. Real, painful, horrifying screaming as if they are burning in pain. Thousands and millions of people. Deafening screaming. Again, I get the impression that the sound has not changed, just that I am realizing what it really was all along.

I had this dream for years. It haunted me, because each time it was the same, although in each dream I went through the same realization process of the sound changing, yet not changing.

It took a long time, but I am pretty sure I finally realized what this was telling me. And people who are killing the babies are in deep #%#%.

Totally serious.

reply to post by James1982

I am morally against abortion. I think if a woman is raped, involved in incest, or is in severe medical danger, she should absolutely be able to have an abortion.

I am totally playing devils advocate here, but using one of your scenario's...."a woman is raped" and becomes pregnant versus a woman having consensual sex and becoming pregnant, both decide to have an abortion......how do either of those foetuses differ?

reply to post by Tw0Sides


The term "Pro-choice" is an attempt to water down the reality.

What happens to the child's choice?

reply to post by BlueAjah

the term "pro-abortionist" doesn't exist in any realm of reality.
it is a poor attempt to demonize the obvious and necessary.

What happens to the child's choice?

what 'choice' ??
did the zygote have a 'choice' in its creation ?
if not, then why should it have a 'choice' in its destruction ?

ETA -- what about the children living with a terminal disease, do they have a 'choice' ??
what about the unborn who are killed via auto accident. assault, slip & fall ?
they certainly had no 'choice' in the matter.

and, what about those who are killed by a risky and filthy abortive attempt that failed and killed both mother and child ... where is your outrage for them ?

reply to post by Honor93



There is probably no such word as pro-murder either.
But abortion is the same thing.

Do you know for sure at what point a person has a soul? A mother who feels the child moving in her womb feels a bond with that child. I know this for a fact. The love for a child starts long before the child is born. The love is not for a "thing" - it is for a living soul.

reply to post by BlueAjah

we aren't discussing vocabulary, we were discussing concepts.
and the pro-abortion concept (or label) doesn't exist and you know it.

deflection isn't your friend, honest.

murder occurs when a living person is prematurely killed.
which part of an abortion includes a 'living' person ??
hint: it's not the zygote/fetus ... so no, it isn't the 'same' thing.

why would a 'soul' figure into the conversation ?
doesn't one have to be religious to believe a soul even exists ?
so, your religious conotations apply to next person, how ?

been there, done that ... besides tugging on emotional strings which apparently is the ONLY thing holding your argument together, what's your point exactly?

i get it, you think abortions are wrong ... surprise, so do i ... however, that is no reason to prevent those who believe otherwise from from obtaining a SAFE and CLEAN procedure.

so let me guess, you vote for risky and filthy over safe and clean, correct ?

ps ... i've been watching this battle back and forth for about 30odd yrs now and something always struck me as odd --> all the $$$ being dumped into failed legislative initiatives could have been used to counsel hundreds of thousands of women and potentially make a real change in the rate abortions are performed ... however, it seems more along the lines of a gurgling drain sucking our vital resources into the netherlands seeking to outlaw an activity that isn't going away ... what is the True Objective in this movement ??

Please do not put words in my mouth.
I am not for "risky and dirty" anything.
I'm for - not doing it at all.

I have a right to my opinion, just as you do to yours.
My opinion may be based partly on faith, but I am not in any way a religious zealot.
I do feel a strong moral obligation to protect those who can not protect themselves.

The problem is - somehow people have lost some of their morality today.
Morality does not have to be based on faith.
Morality has a deeper, underlying, basic, humanity-based reality of what is right and wrong.

My morals tell me - murdering an unborn child is wrong.
Nothing you can argue is going to change my mind.
And obviously, whatever has your mind set on your point of view is not going to change your mind.

I do feel that this thread needed a bit more of the debate from a differing point of view than yours.
Because you seem intent on just shutting everyone up who does not agree with you.

Originally posted by BlueAjah

I do feel that this thread needed a bit more of the debate from a differing point of view than yours.
Because you seem intent on just shutting everyone up who does not agree with you.

Ask and ye shall receive!

Please do not put words in my mouth.
I am not for "risky and dirty" anything.
I'm for - not doing it at all.

You have every right not to have an abortion. But, if you think that women will stop seeking them, you're in denial. If saying "I'm for - not doing it at all." meaning you're for outlawing abortion, then you are FOR risky and dirty, plain and simple.

I have a right to my opinion, just as you do to yours.
My opinion may be based partly on faith, but I am not in any way a religious zealot.
I do feel a strong moral obligation to protect those who can not protect themselves.

Who are you really trying protect? Those adults that you saw crying and wailing in your dream or are you trying to silence the "lambs" crying in your head?

The problem is - somehow people have lost some of their morality today.

Today? Have you READ the Old Testament? That guy, the god of the Old Testament, had no morals to begin with! We're on our own here, and on this one, the "free will" of a woman over her body, her biology, and her self determinism is more important than your decision of what is right and what is wrong for another individual.

Morality does not have to be based on faith.
Morality has a deeper, underlying, basic, humanity-based reality of what is right and wrong.

So, your faith based morality doesn't have to be based on faith for others, they just have to agree that your morality is the right morality. I see.

Do you think that every fertilized egg is sacred? Is biology more important than an individual's self determinism?Do you think that contraceptives are immoral? You do know that the majority of contraception methods that are being used today cause abortion?

reply to post by BlueAjah

Please do not put words in my mouth.

i didn't.
i'm tired of the question being ignored so i guessed what your answer must be.

I am not for "risky and dirty" anything.

if you are not in favor of access to clean and safe abortions, then you are.

I'm for - not doing it at all.

and that's your choice, who are you to make it for anyone else ?

yes, you've voiced your opinion and i've responded, so, what's your problem ?

never said anything about religious zealotry.
you asked about a 'soul', not i.
what of those who do not believe a 'soul' exists ??

I do feel a strong moral obligation to protect those who can not protect themselves

fabulous ... there are plenty of living people/children who could benefit from the help.

as for the unborn, why do you feel a need to interfere in that which you did not create ??

since when do you judge the morality of others
your morals may not agree with mine but that doesn't render either invalid or wrong.
our morals aren't in question, are they ?

if you change your mind, that is your 'choice'.
i aim to share truth over rhetoric.

the truth is ... abortions will occur with or without laws or approvals from anyone.
the only question that remains is the one i posed earlier and answered based on your responses in this thread.

you have not answered the question, rather avoided it with more fluff and rhetoric ... any chance you could be honest ?

knowing abortions will occur anyway (as they always have), which do you prefer ... safe and clean or risky and filthy ??

i have made no effort to 'shut you up', quite the contrary, i'd like more ppl to talk about the facts rather the nonsensical, emotionally driven drivel that accompanies this conversation.

it just irks you that i can be against abortion, yet realize that it isn't going away.
hence, Pro-Choice
and given the above, i would prefer safe and clean procedures, wouldn't you ??

as all of my pertinent questions have gone unanswered, i imagine the last one will too and that is perfectly fine ... however, if you are honest with yourself, you will agree.

now, if you can offer some method or manner to PREVENT abortions, i'm all ears.

ETA --> no response
so much for talking, eh ?

well, just so you know that i am not a pro-abortionist but rather a realist, i offer this ... some science/medical advances on the horizon that may or may not alleviate the 'abortion' issue entirely.

so, as a point of learning vs arguing ... there may very well be a way to PREVENT abortions ... check these out ... ectogenesis
2010
economic ponderings

in other words, abortion may become extinct without an additional dollar $$ or effort spent on pointless legislation and unending battles that do nothing except harm all involved.
~ peace ~

reply to post by timetothink


Those are all basic reflexes that do not require cerebral cortex. Thats where the mind resides, and cerebral cortex function is important, not spinal functions (there are people with damaged spine, are they not persons?). Cortex starts to function after 20 weeks, as evidenced by linked brain wave measurements.

Originally posted by BlueAjah
reply to post by Tw0Sides

 

The term "Pro-choice" is an attempt to water down the reality.

What happens to the child's choice?

Lots of children in the world don't get much choice after they are born, so let's not start getting overly concerned about whether they have any choice before they've drawn their first breath.

Is anyone that has posted in this thread willing to say that it is wrong to deliver a fetus at 40 weeks gestation backwards (intentionally) so that the spine may be snipped before the head passes outside the mother?

This procedure is done this way all in the guise of protecting the life or health of the mother.

Can anyone tell me how the mother will be harmed by delivering the baby alive, versus having the spine of the fetus snipped?
Especially when you need to deliver the fetus backwards. If breech birth presents itself in normal childbirth (when a mother wants the baby...not a dead fetus), the usual medical action is to perform a caesarian section.

reply to post by butcherguy

i know of no state that permits such, do you have specifics ?
here, such procedures are unlawful.

don't take my word for it, read about it yourself here

Consultation and Referral Services for women up to 32 weeks for medically necessary termination of pregnancy. The abortion process cannot occur in the State of Florida due to Florida Statutes that prohibit abortion beyond a certain number of weeks as is the case in the majority of States.

and, considering quite a few of breech births occured naturally (no cesarian) a few decades ago, i can't say as i've ever known what you describe to occur lawfully.

so that actually circles back to my former question ... clean and safe or unlawful/risky/filthy ??
which do you prefer ?

ps ... since full-term is generally 36-38 weeks, i'm curious if the 40 wk scenario is missing information regarding fetal anomaly or distress?