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A question for people who are pro-abortion

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posted on Apr, 6 2013 @ 03:59 AM
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Originally posted by jjkenobi
In the hospital right now this second what determines if a person is alive or not? Pulse. Heartbeat.

As soon as a fetus has a heartbeat it's alive.


Nope, brain death is medical and legal criterion of death.



posted on Apr, 6 2013 @ 02:54 PM
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reply to post by Maslo
 


Yes, and if you want to use that criteria....then abortions should be limited to when brain function begins.


Prenatal Development When does brain development begin? Brain development begins with the formation and closure of the neural tube, the earliest nervous tissue that looks like a fat earthworm stretched out along the entire back of the embryo. The neural tube forms from the neural plate, which begins forming just sixteen days after conception. This plate lengthens and starts folding up, forming a groove at around eighteen days, which then begins fusing shut into a tube around twenty-two days post-conception. By 27 days, the tube is fully closed and has already begun its transformation into the brain and spinal cord of the embryo.


main.zerotothree.org...

This seems to be a reasonable criteria to me.



posted on Apr, 6 2013 @ 03:04 PM
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For all of you who only read in the literal sense.....this is what is meant by a living breathing organism.




THE PLACENTA The organ that allows a baby to "breathe" in the uterus is called the placenta.

This organ resembles a large, flat disc and is composed largely of blood vessels. In their book, "You, Having A Baby," Michael Roizen, M.D., and Mehmet Oz, M.D. note that the placenta is a very odd organ.
It forms in the mother's body--inside the uterus, to be precise--rather than the baby's, but it's composed of embryonic tissue. In other words, the baby forms an organ outside its body, and this organ implants deep in the lining of the uterus.




FUNCTION What we call breathing--the pulling of air into the lungs and pushing of used air back out again--is nothing more than a mechanism for drawing oxygen into the respiratory tissues.

From there, oxygen is transferred into the bloodstream and pumped by the heart to all the body's cells.

Technically, therefore, if there were a way to get oxygen directly into the bloodstream, the physical act of breathing wouldn't be necessary at all.

Since a baby has no way of breathing air, it has to rely on an alternative mechanism for getting oxygen, so this is where the placenta comes into play.


www.livestrong.com...

That should clear it up.



posted on Apr, 6 2013 @ 03:35 PM
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I don't know. I'm not a woman therefore I am not qualified to answer a question regarding abortion. It's none of my business right here right today. That's what is wrong with this country today, too many people concerned about matters that do not involve them.



posted on Apr, 6 2013 @ 03:38 PM
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Originally posted by Cosmic911
I don't know. I'm not a woman therefore I am not qualified to answer a question regarding abortion. It's none of my business right here right today. That's what is wrong with this country today, too many people concerned about matters that do not involve them.


You don't think that you should have a say, as a man, if your gf decided to get an abortion?

Your feelings about your child aren't important?

I think that's one of the biggest problems in our society right now, we make everything gender based. Aborting is a genderless issue, it does effect men as it effects women, but in different ways.

I'm pro choice but I'm also an egalitarian. A women carrying my baby had better consult me before making such a life changing decision.

~Tenth



posted on Apr, 6 2013 @ 03:47 PM
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Originally posted by Maslo

Originally posted by jjkenobi
In the hospital right now this second what determines if a person is alive or not? Pulse. Heartbeat.

As soon as a fetus has a heartbeat it's alive.


Nope, brain death is medical and legal criterion of death.


Glad you called this out. Flag for you my friend.

The above statement couldn't be farther from the truth. lol. According to the American Academy of Pediatrics, a fetus is Not considered viable until 24 weeks, it has absolutely nothing to do with heart rate or pulse. I've resuscitated, or attempted resuscitation, hundreds of patients, and believe me, whether or not a person is considered alive has nothing to do with the presence or absence of a pulse. I've given enough epinphrine during cardiac arrests to give a rock a pulse, but you wouldn't declare that rock is alive. Same thing with patients. Have had lots of patients with a pulse during resuscitation with epinephrine but none of them were alive. It's the difference between having clinical experience to support a claim versus reading about something you have no clinical experience with on the internet.



posted on Apr, 6 2013 @ 03:48 PM
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Originally posted by tothetenthpower

Originally posted by Cosmic911
I don't know. I'm not a woman therefore I am not qualified to answer a question regarding abortion. It's none of my business right here right today. That's what is wrong with this country today, too many people concerned about matters that do not involve them.


You don't think that you should have a say, as a man, if your gf decided to get an abortion?

Your feelings about your child aren't important?

I think that's one of the biggest problems in our society right now, we make everything gender based. Aborting is a genderless issue, it does effect men as it effects women, but in different ways.

I'm pro choice but I'm also an egalitarian. A women carrying my baby had better consult me before making such a life changing decision.

~Tenth


In the HERE and NOW, no it's NONE of my business. That is what I previously said.



posted on Apr, 6 2013 @ 03:51 PM
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reply to post by Cosmic911
 


I disagree, I think it is everyone's business when it comes to the safety of children and the unborn.

Protecting the innocent should be everyone's business.



posted on Apr, 6 2013 @ 03:55 PM
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Originally posted by timetothink
reply to post by Cosmic911
 


I disagree, I think it is everyone's business when it comes to the safety of children and the unborn.

Protecting the innocent should be everyone's business.



What's in question is whether the unborn has rights. This is clearly not a black and white issue. A fetus prior to week 24 is not considered viable, therefore has no rights. There is nothing to protect in this case.



posted on Apr, 6 2013 @ 03:57 PM
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reply to post by Honor93
 


Providing financially is a huge part of being a parent. Child support bills can be absolutely draining on a parent just scraping by.



posted on Apr, 6 2013 @ 04:06 PM
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Originally posted by windword

Dude, your issue isn't with abortion, your issue is not being able to control the outcome of your sexual actions and your relationships.


I'm NOT a man. I'm very opposed to abortion, but also opposed to the idiotic aspect of the system now in which men can be obligated to take responsibility for the children they create, while the same expectations of a woman would be considered 'slavery'.

If men knowing the consequences of their actions is enough of a reason to be able to force them into paying child support, then it's enough of a reason to be able to 'force' a woman into pregnancy.



posted on Apr, 6 2013 @ 04:07 PM
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reply to post by James1982
 


I read the entire post. You state " it's ONLY aimed at people who support the abortion of a fetus for simple convenience."

I seriously doubt those people are here on ATS. Most likely they are somewhere in school, on a street corner or using drugs at the moment. Most women take it very seriously and don't use abortion as a form of birth control.

Yet you seem to be slamming pro-choicers by saying we think a fetus is not a baby, that it a piece of trash. That's not the case. I don't agree that a fetus is a piece of trash. I believe a fetus is a fetus and not a baby. I believe that a woman has the right to choose to have the child or to abort the child. I do not believe that abortion should be used as a form of birth control. It's not for you, me or anyone else to tell another human what she should do with her body.

As for as the questions you asked like throwing the fetus out of a moving car, etc etc, that's not real life my friend. I don't see pro choicers getting together and throwing fetuses in to bonfires. That's just pure rhetoric. What I do see every other 40 days is pro lifers outside of the planned parenthood in my town protesting abortion. They are out on a major street with pictures of aborted fetuses on posterboards for all to see.(just for the record this planned parenthood does not do abortions but the hospital down the street does) And I mean for all to see. Thy didn't care that my 4 year old niece saw those pictures. They claim to be pro child yet they show pictures of fetuses to children.


While i am pro choice myself i would never consider aborrtion, unless raped. It's a woman's body and she is free to make the choice whether you, me or anyone else disagrees.

edit on 6-4-2013 by Jennyfrenzy because: Spelling



posted on Apr, 6 2013 @ 04:12 PM
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Originally posted by Honor93

i find your generality offensive, thank you very much.

You said yourself (in this post) that it would be ultimately your decision. I'm not interested in what you find 'offensive'.


it is a decided issue

Nothing is 'decided'. Mores and laws are constantly changing throughout time.


clean and safe or risky and filthy ??
there are no 'other' options.

I have no interest in pampering murderers.



posted on Apr, 6 2013 @ 04:17 PM
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Originally posted by Honor93

it would be, why would you think it wouldn't ?
forcing anyone to perform against their will is victimizing them.

First of all, pregnancy (with the exception of rape) is a result of conscious decisions. If forcing others to respect the rights of others is victimizing them, then so be it. Murderers and rapists will deal.



posted on Apr, 6 2013 @ 04:19 PM
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Originally posted by watchitburn
Bottom line:

It is not your, mine, or anyone else's business what other people do with their body.
It is especially not the right of the Govt. to have any say in the matter.


Then why do we have suicide prevention hotlines and rehab centers?



posted on Apr, 6 2013 @ 04:26 PM
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Originally posted by Jennyfrenzy

Thy didn't care that my 4 year old niece saw those pictures. They claim to be pro child yet they show pictures of fetuses to children.

Why would children seeing those pictures even be an issue at all if abortion was perfectly acceptable and not immoral at all? Children also see graphic pictures in their history books.



posted on Apr, 6 2013 @ 04:46 PM
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reply to post by Charmed707
 


So youre saying its all fine and dandy for these protesters to show little children grafic pictures just because abortion is legal. And FYI i never said that abortion is moral, did I. Youre putting words in my mouth to suit your argument, please don't.

My 4 year old niece does not have history books. She doesn't even know how to read. What world are you living in where 4 year olds have history class and can read, silly goose. You have got to be kidding me. It's a public street and a 4 year old child should not be subjected to pictures of aborted fetuses. Get real.
edit on 6-4-2013 by Jennyfrenzy because: Spelling


edit on 6-4-2013 by Jennyfrenzy because: (no reason given)

edit on 6-4-2013 by Jennyfrenzy because: Spelling again



posted on Apr, 6 2013 @ 05:15 PM
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reply to post by timetothink
 


Brain formation =/= brain function. There need to be brainwaves.

www.cirp.org...


Functional maturity of the cerebral cortex is suggested by fetal and a neonatal electroencephalographic patterns, studies of cerebral metabolism, and the behavioral development of neonates. First, intermittent electroencephalograpic bursts in both cerebral hemispheres are first seen at 20 weeks gestation; they become sustained at 22 weeks and bilaterally synchronous at 26 to 27 weeks.39 By 30 weeks, the distinction between wakefulness and sleep can be made on the basis of electroencephalo- graphic patterns.



posted on Apr, 6 2013 @ 05:19 PM
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reply to post by Maslo
 


I disagree.


When does the fetus's brain begin to work? Generally speaking, the central nervous system (which is composed of the brain and the spinal cord) matures in a sequence from "tail" to head.

In just the fifth week after conception, the first synapses begin forming in a fetus's spinal cord.

By the sixth week, these early neural connections permit the first fetal movements--spontaneous arches and curls of the whole body--that researchers can detect through ultrasound imaging. Many other movements soon follow--of the limbs (around eight weeks) and fingers (ten weeks), as well as some surprisingly coordinated actions (hiccuping, stretching, yawning, sucking, swallowing, grasping, and thumb-sucking). By the end of the first trimester, a fetus's movement repertoire is remarkably rich, even though most pregnant women can feel none of it. (Most women sense the first fetal movements around eighteen weeks of pregnancy.)


main.zerotothree.org...



posted on Apr, 6 2013 @ 06:41 PM
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The issue of consciousness and being "alive" is getting confused with function. The two are not singular concepts and completely two different constructs.




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