North Korea Approves Nuclear Strike On America

reply to post by GreenGlassDoor


And that's a perfect example of why I find many pro-NK people hypocritical.

They say that america has no right to tell the NK people how to live. I agree. But why did russia have a right to tell NK people how to live? NK is a total construction of russia, it was russia imposing their way of life on the north koreas, with the help of a few locals. The current NK way of life wasn't a natural evolution of the people's desires, it was a quick and planned takeover of north korea to be assimilated into a russian communist state.

So I'll agree that america doesn't have a right to tell NK how to live, but they aren't living how they want to live, that's the problem. They are living how stalin TOLD them to live. Then living how Kim Jong il told them to, now how kim il sung told them to.

They have not lived on their own choice for quite some time now, i simply agree with giving them the opportunity to make their own destiny, instead of being controlled by a complete dynastic dictatorship and/or china.

basically, how is america telling them how to live any worse than russia, china, or a dictator telling them how to live? Does anyone flee from south korea into the north? No. Does anyone flee from the north into the south? Absolutely. Does china help NK imprison it's own citizens? yes. If people escaping NK are found in China, china doesn't allow them to stay or help them on their way, they capture them and bring em back to NK. I don't care about the politics or placing blame, I care about the people, and if anyone is stopping north koreans from escaping their country they are acting in a wrong manner.

People say america shouldn't tell NK people how to live... but NK people are NOT living how they want to live right NOW, if they were, they wouldn't be escaping. NK soldiers on the DMZ would be watching SK instead of watching their own soldiers to make sure nobody escapes to the south.

*Conspiracy shades on*

I'm sensing a false flag in the near future. Something is just not right here...

K. I'm probably wearing my tin foil hat too tight around the head but this latest occurrence with NK has me a bit spooked. We're sending too many resources that way not to have it be nothing.

What also goes through my head is what is it that "they" (whoever "they" are) are using NK to distract us from?

reply to post by GreenGlassDoor


You have explained the origin of nk and sk, through the influence of other countries, but you haven't shown how their outside influence negates what flice and james have said.

How would you explain why nk threatens the us, differently than them?

I don't see what the big deal is. That's like me saying I approve of tickling a navy seal with my fists until he snaps them off from boredom.

They are not exactly a threat. In fact any nukes they could use would be within their own borders on our troops we send to shut the barking dogs up.

There is a lot of misinformation, disinformation, and confusion going on between the west and NK.

But..that ends the moment a actual nuke ignites...I say the moment a countdown starts, it gives the green light to not only stop said countdown, but turn the entire country into a pothole. This was known as mutually assured destruction when the enemy was Russia, and therefore nobody was dumb enough to even put real consideration into it...but this is a madman.

The reaction from china should we backhand to NK -after- they launch a nuke? who cares. if they want to go to war for us properly defending our country..well, then that is what needs to happen.
America is many things, but it is not a coward, nor a wimp to be allowed to be punched without reprisal. We may have lost a lot of world cred for Iraq, but that doesn't matter in this situation.

So again..let saber rattling go on..lets debates rage..hell, half the time I agree with the opposing side about America pushing its nose in other countries business...but that goes out the window upon countdown and I fall in line.

The only pity I have is the innocent Asians that would feel the firey wrath should their leaders egos outweigh their sense.

Originally posted by Bleeeeep
reply to post by GreenGlassDoor

 

You have explained the origin of nk and sk, through the influence of other countries, but you haven't shown how their outside influence negates what flice and james have said.

How would you explain why nk threatens the us, differently than them?

I don't want to speak for Green, but I believe he holds the same view of WHY they hate the US, they view us as the aggressor, the bad guy, the reason their nation is split, the cause of their suffering.

The difference comes in whether that hate is justified or not. I don't think it is. I'm under the impression green doesn't think it is, I believe flice does think it is.

Flice's main argument is that, whatever is wrong with NK, it's none of our business and we have no right to intervene BECAUSE they have a right to self determination. The reason me and green disagree, is because what north koreans have right now is NOT self determination. What they have right now was determined by Russia, and is being supported by China. The North Koreans are NOT in control of their country, their wishes and wants are not being addressed, so the argument that the US should butt out because we shouldn't tell them how to live is flawed, as they aren't living how they want anyway, they are living how they were/are told.

I'd be fully in support of a US operation to liberate North Korea.... except.... I do not trust the US to act in the best interest of the Korean people. I trust they would go in under the cover of liberating the North Koreans, use it as an excuse, but then screw it up like always.

If any outside influence is to change NK, I feel it should come from SK. They are the same people. It shouldn't be SK conquering NK, it should be SK liberating NK and allowing its people to do as they wish, either re-join the south with the south's current government, or form their own country separate from SK but not under the control of the kims. The problem here is the south's ability to actually do so, as well as the issue of millions of uneducated, malnourished, amphetamine addicted brainwashed north koreans causing problems for the south.

It's a funked up situation all around, I honestly cannot think of any good idea on how to deal with the situation. Letting NK fall on their own is one idea, but the idea of letting all those people suffer for so long doesn't seem to goo either.

Your right about the water, it's just far too muddy to see a way out.

reply to post by James1982


Its not that we or anyone is telling them how to live. It is that they are opposed to our empire (west, Europe included) and their interests are not inline with ours. Their alternative of peaceful coexistence through tribute is not appealing to them, and so they stubbornly defy us thinking their "allies" will back them up if they throw the first punch or make us do so.

Russia and China have chosen not to defy us and so have opened up other avenues of peaceful coexistence without tribute and in doing so have retained their right to influence their sphere of influence. Their interests ARE
Inline with ours and so no one cares for a fight which would be counter productive to our desired ends.

NK is a satellite state without the need for investment in infrastructure or state upkeep from Russia or China. It is shared proxy for Russia and a buffer for China. Instead of massive social spending on their part, they instead send arms and military aid to serve their purpose.

NK is more slighted and enslaved by their allies then the boogie man of the US they have been baited into fearing.

We also accept that role FOR Russia and China to better serve their interests while they take a similar stance for us.

China is engaged in an economic front for us globally , while Russia is a political trump card for us with our allies.

In the end it is a symbiotic relationship and NK is like the good bacteria our bodies use naturally.

reply to post by tony9802


Title of the post is misleading. Made me think NK had OK'd a strike to be carried out on the 4th. Instead, it's just an article that was written on the 4th. This is true fear mongering, and for S&F's no less.

Shame on you.

Originally posted by Chrysalis
North Korea doesn't need "approval".
All they need is an order from their leader.

Did the US need any approval when they nuked Hiroshima and Nagasaki, or give an early warning ?
Nope, and nope again.

This is obviously propaganda tailored to a western way of thinking.
Stop living in fear, that's gonna destroy you. Because you are the target of this thing.

North Korea knows they can't go at it alone, the authorization most probably came from China, and Russia, both of which have been preparing together militarily, and economically, and have an alliance to back each other in case of war.

Many Chinese high ranking officials have stated that a war with the United States is inevitable, and that it is only a matter of when, not of if.

reply to post by James1982


I understood your view and flice's, and I thought greenglass's view was similar to yours as well, but then he said:

Really, you're buying that crap?

...and then he didn't give any insight as to why his opinion differed. He merely stated the origin of the states, without given his view on the origin of the threats. He left me to come to my own conclusion, but I sought his.

If his view is:

they view us as the aggressor, the bad guy, the reason their nation is split, the cause of their suffering

...then:

Really, you're buying that crap?

...seems unwarranted and was without clarification. So I asked for clarity.

My original question was "why threaten the us and no one else in the un?". He didn't specify.

Would just like to point out that the argument that the North Korean people aren't free anyway is an absolute joke. It's always the same justification.. Look what "enter rouge state here" are doing to it's people!

reply to post by tadaman


Can you define your use of "defy", please?

Do you mean, "to resist through confrontation"?





"Resistance is futile" - The Borg

Originally posted by HairlessApe
reply to post by tony9802

 

Title of the post is misleading. Made me think NK had OK'd a strike to be carried out on the 4th. Instead, it's just an article that was written on the 4th. This is true fear mongering, and for S&F's no less.

Shame on you.

This came out of CNN, 6 hours ago. Other reports from media all over the world have been posting to major services most of the day and night on this.

North Korea stirred up fresh unease in Northeast Asia early Thursday, threatening attacks by a "smaller, lighter and diversified" nuclear force and warning, "The moment of explosion is approaching fast."

The new threat came after the North Koreans locked South Korean workers out of a joint factory complex and announced plans to restart a nuclear reactor it shut down five years ago. Meanwhile, the United States announced it was sending ballistic missile defenses to Guam, a Pacific territory that's home to U.S. naval and air bases.

(Source: CNN - Dated 10:54 PM EDT, Wed April 3, 2013

Now I could be misreading that or CNN, BBC and others I just read over the last few minutes could, themselves, be mis-stating the facts. However, that looks like the announcement came earlier yesterday or today..whatever it is. The International Date Line always did give me a headache. Anyway... I figured I'd add this before we all got too far out of hand with calling people fear mongers for posting what the entire world media is also carrying as statements within the past 18 hours or so.

* Also, Chinese troops continuing to move onto the DPRK border as well that the THAAD deployment to Guam speak of serious concerns, whatever the World leaders may be saying publicly. Actions always speak louder, IMO.

I can't imagine this "threat" being taken seriously by the US government. I picture they're reaction similar to this:






"Oh, I bet you will. I bet you will..."

Originally posted by Samuelis
Would just like to point out that the argument that the North Korean people aren't free anyway is an absolute joke. It's always the same justification.. Look what "enter rouge state here" are doing to it's people!

Would just like to point out that you absolutely lack an education on the subject. Your opinion and knowledge about NK's public is a joke.

Originally posted by Samuelis
Would just like to point out that the argument that the North Korean people aren't free anyway is an absolute joke. It's always the same justification.. Look what "enter rouge state here" are doing to it's people!

99% of the time you would be 100% correct... that's not the case here.

NK people, are quite literally, NOT free. They can NOT even leave their country. This is fact.

Like I said 99% of the time you'd be correct, but if you did any research at all into NK you'd realize that the real joke are people that defend the NK government. Not trying to attack you with that statement, but if you want to back up your idea that NK people are free, then please do so. If you refuse to back it up, then please leave the discussion to those that will put effort into defending their point of view.

it's quite obvious that many people are so entrenched in their hatred of America and/or the west that they will instantly side with whoever is against the west. The whole "the enemy of my enemy is my friend" idea has been proven over and over again to be terribly flawed. Not saying YOU are one of those people, but without any legitimate backing of your statement about the NK people, that is the most obvious assumption.

reply to post by tony9802


Seems like NK and Anonymous use the same PR firm. Big talk, and that's about it.

I'm not one generally for preventative attacks by the US, but it is starting to look like NK is the exception to the rule, which warrants one.

Reply to post by Bleeeeep

Flice was just total nonsense. James is kind of there.

In WWII Japan occupied Korea. Japan and the Soviet Union had a nonaggression pact from their 1939 war in Manchuria. The Soviet Union honored that pact until it was clear that Japan was licked and then they declared war on Japan.

You need to understand that the Soviet Union was a paranoid state. This Foreign Affairs article written in 1947 famously lays out the argument: faculty.txwes.edu...

So the Soviets were deathly afraid that the US would create a hegemony that would encapsilate the Soviet Union and took up residence in North Korea to start laying the seeds of physical buffer zones to protect themselves.

The US was tired of war and just wanted WWII to be over and in the past. So when the Soviets began setting up Stalinist juntas and refused to leave their occupied territories the US realized their was a problem.

We had hoped that the Soviet Union had given up their hopes for world wide communism when it failed at the Miracle of Vistula in 1920 (look it up if you don't know; too long to explain). The point is the Communists were invading Poland to bridge with Bavaria SSR, who had seceded from Germany in a communist revolt, and subsequently made Hitler a national hero because his militia put down the communist coup.

Meanwhile, the Soviets began to tangle in the far east, eventually culminating in a war with the Japanese. The Japanese lost, in a sense, but they decided to double down on conqueoring China and they had Korea.

Why Korea? The Japanese Military Command referred to Korea famously as "a dagger pointed at the heart of the Empire". Who was going to wield that Dagger? China and Korea, by themselves, lacked a coherent military capability to do anything to Japan. If you're looking at a map and from what I've discussed thus far, I think you can guess who they were referring to: the Soviet Union.

World War II happens. Ends. The Soviets begin setting up proxy states. So the US is looking to set up client states in Japan and possibly Korea, so how do you balance Japan out? Remember the dagger? Stalin wanted it.

So here's the thing: the US does not want to make everyone a democracy, nor does it want corporatist dictatorships. It just wants nations that it can deal with -that's basic risk management. Communists, however, are in a constant state of conflict and upheaval as the basic tenant of Marx in action. The ideaology behind communism demands its revolution be global and absolute and anything contrary to existing power structure is declared counterrevolutionary and crushed.

Don't think so? The US couldn't really deal with China until Deng Xiaoping softened the Marxist-Maoist stance. Mao succinctly explained the position as stating that "communism is a hammer" and "politics come from the end of a gun". Deng throttled that noise back and put China on a path to prosperity. He ended a lot of the state oppression. China has come a long way and it still has a ways to go.

The Soviets couldn't be dealt with until Gorbachev instituted Market and political reforms, which included amnesty for political prisoners.

But where are North Korea's reforms? Where is the end of their oppressive state? Democratic elections? Market economy? It doesn't exist. They are still locked into their Stalinist mantra and we've established what the goals of communists are.

The malnutritioned North and prosperous South are the proof in the pudding. What North Korean apologists and blame-America-firsters do not understand that the Communists want to expand their cancerous system world wide. They want to oppress their neighbors, their neighbor's neighbors, and eventually you.

I make no apologies for calling it crap. North Korea is one of the few nations who still marches under the Communist banner. Their bellicose rhetoric is an extension of the world wide revolution ideology. Ask yourself this simple question: why is the North threatening the South? Why isn't South threatening the North?


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