Woman 8 Months Pregnant Tasered? Excessive Police Force?

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posted on Apr, 5 2013 @ 09:45 PM
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reply to post by Dimithae
 


Did you even read the thread? She wasn't told to "Lay down on your stomach, now!" or " Get down on the ground on your stomach!"
People need to stop enabling. smh.
So the truth comes out after the fact, the police were trying to do their jobs and the hooligans intervened.
Just so everyone knows, the cop came up behind the pregnant woman so it is %100 possible he didn't know she was pregnant... even if he did now, he didn't use the prongs, or what have you, and he hit her leg, not her back. Nobody knows what your actions will be in the heat of the moment unless you are a seasoned cage fighter or boxer.
edit on 5-4-2013 by kimish because: (no reason given)




posted on Apr, 6 2013 @ 04:41 AM
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Originally posted by Daedalus

Originally posted by LadyGreenEyes
Well, if we CAN see the video, I would bet there is more there than what we see in this one. There is SO much off with this story.


what is wrong with you? ..there's paranoid, and then there's paranoid...


Since none of this has anything at all to do with me, kindly explain what paranoia has to do with anything here....


Originally posted by Daedalus

Originally posted by LadyGreenEyes
1. The start of the incident is cut off. Supposedly, she's confronting someone about allegedly hitting her car, and they don't get that on video? I don't buy it. The fact that we don't see all of the footage indicates there is something they don't want us to see. Even at the start of the video we do see, she's clearly shoving at the cop, who is about pinned between the vehicles, with her and her guy (who calls her "baby mama", so no way to know the relationship), and is in a threatening situation. The other cops comes up, sees her from behind, with NO WAY to know she's pregnant, sees the other cop pinned, and pulls a non-lethal weapon to get control of the situation. Under those circumstances, based on what we do see, he's justified.


firstly, maybe there IS no more footage....you're implying that it's been creatively edited to make the cops look bad...and all because...shame on these silly people for not being able to record every moment of everything they do, for public viewing....

secondly, why does the second cop feel he needs a weapon in the first place? i'm not saying women in general are weak, but the size difference between the the officer, and the woman is plain to see...he didn't need any weapon.


The people in the car would have recorded some confrontation between her and another driver. I would have, had I been there, just in case there was some problem that needed resolved. The cop is trying to break up an altercation between two people and another COP. Why does he need a weapon? Seriously? Would you prefer the cops act as they can in some countries, and slugged her instead?


Originally posted by Daedalus

Originally posted by LadyGreenEyes
2. Seems clear that the people making the video know her, and know she's pregnant. *snip* Then, they claim someone else, presumably a cop, is trying to "block" the video, all the while placing a finger over the lens, when NO ONE ELSE is anywhere near them at the moment.


no, it doesn't seem clear that they know one another..it could simply be that they saw the situation unfolding, and decided to record it....police brutality videos get lots of hits on youtube....not to mention, they make great evidence, if a case goes to court. and yeah, one of the cops was intentionally trying to block the recording, because he kept moving with the recorder, staying in his line of sight with the action.


It seems clear to me, the way they were talking. No, that isn't 100% sure, but it should be considered. Plus, the person making the video stuck his own finger over the lens, while claiming someone was "blocking" his recording. Since he got all the action with the woman, I can't imagine what he thinks was blocked, other than by his own finger.



posted on Apr, 6 2013 @ 04:56 AM
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Originally posted by Daedalus

Originally posted by LadyGreenEyes
3. Later, we hear the video maker state he has "no ID". How convenient..... He also, supposedly, has no phone number. Gee, what was he using for the video? My guess is, based on what most people carry, a cell phone camera! So, odds are very good he flat out lied to the police.


ok, and? he had nothing to do with the situation, did nothing wrong, and understands his rights...he knows he is not legally required to produce I.D. on command, and does not have to provide the officer with ANY information, unless he is being detained, arrested, etc

people have the right NOT to talk to an officer if they feel disinclined to do so...


Yes, they absolutely do! I agree completely on that point. However, he was at the scene of an incident, and was recording, so the officer asking for his information was reasonable. In such a case, since he's clearly a more likely witness for the woman, not cooperating wouldn't make a lot of sense. Was the video more important to him than the people involved? He could have said, totally legally, that he didn't want to share a phone number and ID. He could have simply driven away. He chose to stay, and from what we saw, quite possibly lied. That, I don't understand. I have witnessed crimes, and recorded one (not great quality, sadly). In that case, some jerks jumped a guy for no reason other than the guy being military. Happens around here from time to time, with idiot college kids. I got some video, from a distance, and made an effort to get a copy to the police, and tell them everything I saw. I didn't know anyone involved, but I did what I could to help out someone that was attacked. if this video maker really believed the woman was mistreated, wouldn't he want to make an effort to be sure proper action was taken, instead of being evasive? Lying at the scene, then coming out later, would make him less credible.


Originally posted by Daedalus
i'm not trying to turn this into something it isn't, but i hafta ask, in all seriousness....would you feel the story was more believable, if the couple in question had been white? i've seen some things in this thread, regarding certain attitudes, that kinda disturb me....


Oh, yeah. Some of the most abominable behavior I have personally witnessed was from some very "Jerry Springer" style, trashy white people. ANY pregnant woman, acting in a fashion to possibly endanger her child, would be subject to dislike on my part. I get pretty angry at mistreatment of kids. Can understand you asking, though. In this case, that isn't the issue. My maid of honor was a VERY black friend of mine, close enough that my oldest daughter called her daughter her "cousin". More neighborhood kids that I played with growing up were black than white. None of us called.


Originally posted by Daedalus
and yes, she was on her side, after the officer drive stunned her...and then he got on top of her....if you don't think that kind of physical strain puts a fetus at risk, then you are quite mistaken.


Well, having been pregnant several times, I can tell you that some, um, pressure, on the abdomen can happen, and poses no risk in most cases. Pregnant ladies can stay active with their husbands till they are in labor.


Originally posted by Daedalus
the fuss about the taser is that it is far too often misused....it is not a "non-lethal" tool...it is a "less-lethal" tool....and more often than not, it is used as a non-compliance torture device.... tasers are SUPPOSED to be for subduing individuals that, before tasers, would have required the use of lethal force to stop. now, it's just the go to thing...police treat them like toys...

he could have VERY EASILY grabbed her from behind, and cuffed her...there was no need to put her on the ground..


The way she was already shoving at the other cop, she would surely have resisted cuffs, plus, there was the guy right there as well. Struggling against being cuffed, she could easily have pulled something, and really been hurt. I won't say tasers aren't overused, because sometimes, they are, but in this case, it really might have been the best option.


Originally posted by Daedalus
bottom line: while the video in question does not show the ENTIRE episode, from collision, to booking, it does show an instance of police using excessive force. to imply that this whole thing was a setup is silly, and indicates a level of paranoia that is approaching "unhealthy"


No, the video shows a woman being VERY confrontational with a cop, and shoving at him, and the cop pinned with her and her guy between two cars. Force was needed. A set up is a distinct possibility. People do that sort of thing. That isn't paranoia, but awareness.



posted on Apr, 6 2013 @ 06:19 AM
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reply to post by kimish
 


"Nobody knows what your actions will be in the heat of the moment unless you are a seasoned cage fighter or boxer."

This is also very true, nobody knows how they will react to a conflict situation until there fight or flight reaction kicks in. Unless of course they have been trained and conditioned to react in a certain manner which the Police officer in this case most certainly would have been.

I'm just wondering where and in what situation it says in the Police training/operations manual that it's ok to taser pregnant woman?

Maybe it is next to the part where it says its ok to taser blind folk with white sticks attempting to cross the road.

www.guardian.co.uk... Granted this is in my own nation, but we are not that different.

Also as someone else has suggested, how does any 8 month pregnant lady simply lay down on the ground? Is her bump retractable? LoL
edit on 6-4-2013 by andy06shake because: (no reason given)



posted on Apr, 6 2013 @ 09:30 AM
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reply to post by andy06shake
 


The thing is he didnt' tell her to lay on her stomach. He wanted her on the ground so she wasn't a threat so I think her sitting on her but would have sufficed. Look at that last sentence... do you see what I see? Why on Earth would a pregnant woman be a threat!? Let alone 8 months pregnant! That, my good sir, is another question. Just to think she has a seed inside of her that will probably grow up acting like its mother, non compliant and animalistic. Grrrr.



posted on Apr, 6 2013 @ 09:56 AM
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Originally posted by kimish
reply to post by andy06shake
 


The thing is he didnt' tell her to lay on her stomach. He wanted her on the ground so she wasn't a threat so I think her sitting on her but would have sufficed. Look at that last sentence... do you see what I see? Why on Earth would a pregnant woman be a threat!? Let alone 8 months pregnant! That, my good sir, is another question. Just to think she has a seed inside of her that will probably grow up acting like its mother, non compliant and animalistic. Grrrr.


Getting down on the ground when you are 8 months gone is a task in itself, kneeling down is a chore. I cant see why a pregnant women would be considered a threat ether especially given that the officers were armed to the teeth. I don't think its correct to say the kid will grow up to be just like the mother "non compliant and animalistic". That's profiling, and apparently frowned upon these days.

Also the way this world is going, being non compliant and animalistic may just be a required future survival trait. LoL
edit on 6-4-2013 by andy06shake because: (no reason given)



posted on Apr, 6 2013 @ 10:12 AM
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Originally posted by kimish
reply to post by andy06shake
 


The thing is he didnt' tell her to lay on her stomach. He wanted her on the ground so she wasn't a threat so I think her sitting on her but would have sufficed. Look at that last sentence... do you see what I see? Why on Earth would a pregnant woman be a threat!? Let alone 8 months pregnant! That, my good sir, is another question. Just to think she has a seed inside of her that will probably grow up acting like its mother, non compliant and animalistic. Grrrr.


Yes there are too many of us, so they're probably trained to lash out at pregnancies. They want absolute control. Compliance.

And we have to be strong freedom and resistance.



posted on Apr, 6 2013 @ 10:15 AM
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reply to post by LadyGreenEyes
 


ok, my mind is changed a bit....you're more reasonable than i first thought.

glad you're not a bigoted piece of crap...

don't need to be hearin' about the ol' "night moves"

and that PCO that was standing on the sidelines WAS moving with the guy recording the thing, intentionally blocking his line of sight. the finger was probably slippage, or readjustment of his hand, or something, i dunno...

i still don't think they're related, or that it was a setup, or that the stunning was necessary..unless she had a weapon, physical restraint should have been enough. and i do understand that setups happen, but usually when someone is scamming someone else. they don't typically involve the police..



posted on Apr, 6 2013 @ 10:52 PM
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reply to post by andy06shake
 





Do you think the situation would have played out in the same fashion had the lady in question been of caucasian persuasion?


Of course not.



posted on Apr, 7 2013 @ 12:29 AM
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Originally posted by WaterBottle
reply to post by andy06shake
 





Do you think the situation would have played out in the same fashion had the lady in question been of caucasian persuasion?


Of course not.

You're %100 percent right



posted on Apr, 7 2013 @ 02:03 AM
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Originally posted by Daedalus
reply to post by LadyGreenEyes
 


ok, my mind is changed a bit....you're more reasonable than i first thought.

glad you're not a bigoted piece of crap...

don't need to be hearin' about the ol' "night moves"

and that PCO that was standing on the sidelines WAS moving with the guy recording the thing, intentionally blocking his line of sight. the finger was probably slippage, or readjustment of his hand, or something, i dunno...

i still don't think they're related, or that it was a setup, or that the stunning was necessary..unless she had a weapon, physical restraint should have been enough. and i do understand that setups happen, but usually when someone is scamming someone else. they don't typically involve the police..


I have never cared what a person or group looks like, only about how they act.

I don't really think the guy was trying to block, but it's really not clear either way. In any case, the reason I suspect a set up is because the way the people were talking and behaving seems VERY like some that have been recorded. There are people that do that sort of thing (all races). They will get in multiple cars, work hard to get someone to hit one car, and then the others will be there as "unrelated" witnesses. That's one example, and there are others. You can watch (and should) videos telling you how to spot such drivers, to make it easier to avoid getting caught up in such a scheme. There are other such schemes as well. If you look at enough of the stuff, you start to get a feel for how they behave, and what sorts of things they are likely to do. Now, there isn't any proof that this was such a thing, and maybe it wasn't, but it looks a lot like it could have been.

Whether the taser was necessary or not isn't something we can tell, since we don't know what happened beforehand. You can bet that most of the media, if they report it, will try and make the cops look bad. That's pretty standard. In the Rodney King case, they did just that, and were, in my opinion, partially responsible for instigating the rioting. That case, I saw, ONE TIME, on a local channel, the whole video. the parts we all saw, over and over, were far from complete. In the whole thing, King got up over and over, swinging at the cops, hard enough to really hurt them, trying to knock them down, and he did this repeatedly. He was a really BIG guy, too. If you saw the whole thing, you could see that they did only what they had to, to try and prevent him from attacking them yet again. Even so, with four of them, it took several attempts to get him down and properly restrained. Since seeing that, I am VERY cautious about assuming anything from a partial video.

In this case, the cop sounded distressed, and looked practically pinned, with both the man and the woman right by him (under 6 inches distance), and with her shoving at him (watch the start closely, and you can see that). The second cop got a call for help, saw the back of this woman (and you could not tell she was pregnant from that angle), and did what he felt was necessary to protect the other cop. I would be very interested in who called the police, and in hearing an actual recording of that. I would also like to hear from the man accused of hitting her car, and see what he says about the incident, her behavior, and so forth. I would LOVE to see surveillance videos from the store, of the parking lot. If those don't vanish, they would be quite telling, if the angle was right. One way or another, we could see if there was a real threat. If there wasn't, then the cops involved should face whatever charges are appropriate. If there was, this woman should face charges.

I still can't see ANY reason a woman 8 months pregnant would be yelling in the face of a cop. If she was actually in the face of the guy accused of hitting her car, that's even worse. Pregnant, her main goal should be avoiding any potential danger. Confronting a stranger is far too risky. Plus, if the car hit was one in the video, I didn't notice any damage. Surely this wasn't all over a simple scratch.

All I want are ALL the facts. There are bad cops out there (encountered a couple, and know people that encountered worse), but there are plenty of good ones as well, and in heated situations, sometimes they get accused, when they should not have been. Let's all hope we can see all the data, and things can be resolved fairly.



posted on Apr, 7 2013 @ 06:01 AM
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reply to post by Daedalus
 


I had a movie in my head reading your words. Can really imagine the last part where the officer risks 10´s and 100´s of life´s with that movie ripe stunt.

But even here in Germany, I saw the following crazy reaction from a police officer. Me and my kids were walking the dog and we were just 500m out of town on a small road used for farming equipment (tractors etc) to get to the fields.
None paved road out in the blue. There was an old Ford Fiesta standing, full of smoke, people inside, obviously smoking weed, I even recognized who it was. Suddenly we get a honk from a police car behind us, I shove the kids from the street just a second before the car rushes past us. He came to a halt with screaming tires, in front of the Fiesta, he jumped out of the car, drew is P88 towards the "cannabis car" screaming (translated) "Get all out of the car, and don´t do #" ("Alle sofort raus aus dem Auto und keine Mätzchen").
It was so strange to see 3 red eyed, obviously to stoned do anything, barely #ting their pants, 16-18 year olds struggling to get out of the car while I saw the police men in firing position, finger on the trigger (!!!), safety off, I saw the red dot.

I knew those youngsters from seeing and the police officer also. They were not aggressive in any way, never, they were known for hanging around at several places doing little # but never ever they were violent or even loud mouthed to others. So I ask myself, even if the police officer was alone, why draw the weapon, get in to firing position, finger on trigger, safety off, when a simple knock on the window of the car would have been enough for them to "surrender". I mean, this was no call for backup but simply overreaction.



posted on Apr, 7 2013 @ 10:44 AM
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Originally posted by LadyGreenEyes

I don't really think the guy was trying to block, but it's really not clear either way.


watch it again...the plain-clothed guy stands blocks line of sight...cameraman moves to one side, plain-clothed guy looks at him, and moves to block line of sight, he does this a few times..it was on purpose. i'm sure you've seen enough threads here to know that officers don't like being recorded...



In any case, the reason I suspect a set up is because the way the people were talking and behaving seems VERY like some that have been recorded. There are people that do that sort of thing (all races). They will get in multiple cars, work hard to get someone to hit one car, and then the others will be there as "unrelated" witnesses. That's one example, and there are others. *snip*


i understand that this sort of thing happens, i'm just not seeing it here...usually the point of a scam like that is to get paid, not go to jail...no, it doesn't track, sorry



Whether the taser was necessary or not isn't something we can tell, since we don't know what happened beforehand. You can bet that most of the media, if they report it, will try and make the cops look bad. That's pretty standard. In the Rodney King case, they did just that, and were, in my opinion, partially responsible for instigating the rioting. That case, I saw, ONE TIME, on a local channel, the whole video. the parts we all saw, over and over, were far from complete. In the whole thing, King got up over and over, swinging at the cops, hard enough to really hurt them, trying to knock them down, and he did this repeatedly. He was a really BIG guy, too. If you saw the whole thing, you could see that they did only what they had to, to try and prevent him from attacking them yet again. Even so, with four of them, it took several attempts to get him down and properly restrained. Since seeing that, I am VERY cautious about assuming anything from a partial video.

In this case, the cop sounded distressed, and looked practically pinned, with both the man and the woman right by him (under 6 inches distance), and with her shoving at him (watch the start closely, and you can see that). The second cop got a call for help, saw the back of this woman (and you could not tell she was pregnant from that angle), and did what he felt was necessary to protect the other cop. I would be very interested in who called the police, and in hearing an actual recording of that. I would also like to hear from the man accused of hitting her car, and see what he says about the incident, her behavior, and so forth. I would LOVE to see surveillance videos from the store, of the parking lot. If those don't vanish, they would be quite telling, if the angle was right. One way or another, we could see if there was a real threat. If there wasn't, then the cops involved should face whatever charges are appropriate. If there was, this woman should face charges.


i still contend the taser wasn't necessary. if he cannot restrain a little lady like that, without resorting to the zapper, he either needs to hit the gym more often, or find another job.

the other cop sounds distressed, because he's probably a wimp, and scared of black people.....neither of them had a weapon, and he did not appear to be in a situation that could been classified as "mortal peril". i can understand him asking for help to get these two obviously pissed off people away from him, but he did not look like he had a gun to his head, or a knife to his throat...screaming like that is SO unbecoming...

and yes, the other cop might not have noticed she was pregnant from the angle he came up on her from, but after having been repeatedly told, he no longer had the option to plead ignorance.

and yeah, rodney may have swung at cops, and i fully support police using whatever level of force is necessary to resolve the situation...what i'm against is overkill....beating a man way after he is no longer able to pose a threat is overkill...drive stunning, and then throwing a pregnant woman to the ground is overkill...



I still can't see ANY reason a woman 8 months pregnant would be yelling in the face of a cop.


probably stupidity, adrenaline....i've seen people get caught up in the moment, and forget themselves...do and say stupid s**t as a result...it happens..



All I want are ALL the facts. There are bad cops out there (encountered a couple, and know people that encountered worse), but there are plenty of good ones as well, and in heated situations, sometimes they get accused, when they should not have been. Let's all hope we can see all the data, and things can be resolved fairly.


i'd like to know everything about this too...and i agree, if they did right, even while doing a little wrong, it's not AS bad...but if they were as completely wrong as they looked on camera...screw 'em..



posted on Apr, 9 2013 @ 12:47 AM
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Originally posted by Daedalus
watch it again...the plain-clothed guy stands blocks line of sight...cameraman moves to one side, plain-clothed guy looks at him, and moves to block line of sight, he does this a few times..it was on purpose. i'm sure you've seen enough threads here to know that officers don't like being recorded...


Well, no doubt that many don't, but the video maker DID place his finger over the lens every time he claimed someone was blocking. Maybe if he hadn't done that, it would be more clear....

reply to post by Frocharocha
 

i still contend the taser wasn't necessary. if he cannot restrain a little lady like that, without resorting to the zapper, he either needs to hit the gym more often, or find another job.

Again, would you prefer they punch someone in that situation? Wrestle them to the ground? Do what she did in Germany, you would get KNOCKED to the ground, all quite legally (and justly, IMO).

reply to post by Frocharocha
 

the other cop sounds distressed, because he's probably a wimp, and scared of black people.....neither of them had a weapon, and he did not appear to be in a situation that could been classified as "mortal peril". i can understand him asking for help to get these two obviously pissed off people away from him, but he did not look like he had a gun to his head, or a knife to his throat...screaming like that is SO unbecoming...

Ah, there it is. I knew that race card would be pulled out sooner or later. Your credibility just went down the tubes. Plus, HE wasn't the one screaming; that was the shrew in his face, screaming because, in all likelihood, she didn't get her way. Her behavior was completely unbecoming, for certain.

reply to post by Frocharocha
 

and yeah, rodney may have swung at cops, and i fully support police using whatever level of force is necessary to resolve the situation...what i'm against is overkill....beating a man way after he is no longer able to pose a threat is overkill...drive stunning, and then throwing a pregnant woman to the ground is overkill...

Not "may have", DID. I saw the complete video. They didn't hit him any more than necessary to keep him from attacking them, which he GOT UP and did several times over. He was a serious threat, which is why the jury acquitted those cops of all criminal charges. THEY saw the whole video, too. Unless and until you do, you don't know half of what happened. I was mad when I first saw the edited version. Then I saw all of it, and learned the media was playing us.

Again you mistake the facts. the woman was not "thrown to the ground". She was tased, then lowered to her side. Screaming at a cop because he doesn't do whatever you want, and pinning him, with the help of your boyfriend (or whatever the guy was), is serious overkill.

There is no excuse for bad behavior, and trying to use skin color, pregnancy, or whatever to blame the other guy is flat out wrong. Nothing those cops did seemed based on anything but the actions of that woman and her guy.



posted on Apr, 9 2013 @ 08:34 PM
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reply to post by LadyGreenEyes
 


we must have watched different videos, because in the one i saw, the officer was yelling "hurry up" frantically, and the "assist" officer did handle the lady roughly, and the PCO did keep moving to block the guy's view...

and seriously...you're accusing ME of playing the race card? if it wasn't a T&C violation, i'd tell you what to do go with yourself right now...i'm no bigot, and i'm no fool, so i know they exist, and a lot of them are cops...



posted on Apr, 16 2013 @ 01:53 AM
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Originally posted by Daedalus
reply to post by LadyGreenEyes
 


we must have watched different videos, because in the one i saw, the officer was yelling "hurry up" frantically, and the "assist" officer did handle the lady roughly, and the PCO did keep moving to block the guy's view...

and seriously...you're accusing ME of playing the race card? if it wasn't a T&C violation, i'd tell you what to do go with yourself right now...i'm no bigot, and i'm no fool, so i know they exist, and a lot of them are cops...


You stated -

Originally posted by Daedalus
the other cop sounds distressed, because he's probably a wimp, and scared of black people.....


If that isn't playing the race card, what DO you call it? Plus, I stated more than once that the first officer was clearly distressed, and thus the response of the second was completely understandable.

Clearly, though, this debate is too much for you, so I am done.



posted on Apr, 19 2013 @ 03:48 PM
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Originally posted by LadyGreenEyes

Originally posted by Daedalus
reply to post by LadyGreenEyes
 


we must have watched different videos, because in the one i saw, the officer was yelling "hurry up" frantically, and the "assist" officer did handle the lady roughly, and the PCO did keep moving to block the guy's view...

and seriously...you're accusing ME of playing the race card? if it wasn't a T&C violation, i'd tell you what to do go with yourself right now...i'm no bigot, and i'm no fool, so i know they exist, and a lot of them are cops...


You stated -

Originally posted by Daedalus
the other cop sounds distressed, because he's probably a wimp, and scared of black people.....


If that isn't playing the race card, what DO you call it? Plus, I stated more than once that the first officer was clearly distressed, and thus the response of the second was completely understandable.

Clearly, though, this debate is too much for you, so I am done.


i call it an observation...

there IS a difference between being afraid of black people, and hating them because they're black...you know this, right? one of them is an irrational fear, and the other is an ignorant unwarranted hatred....this is important to understand.

and no, it's not too much for me, i just detest banging my head against a wall of blindness...so i am done too...good day to you





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