DHS Explains Plans To Buy 1.6B Rounds Of Ammo: We're Buying in Bulk to 'Significantly Lower Costs

There has been a lot of controversy lately over DHS and mass quantities of ammo lately, so I felt like chiming in on the subject with a thread of my own.

The Department of Homeland Security (DHS) has responded to a letter dated November 13, 2012 from Senator Tom Coburn (R-Okla.) regarding the agency's ammunition purchases.

Sen. Coburn published the response on the U.S. Senate Committee on Homeland Security and Governmental Affairs website yesterday, April 1, 2013.

The response, dated February 4, 2013, says that DHS buys ammunition in bulk to "significantly lower costs."

So their response is that it is a money saving measure, which is understandable.. purchase things in bulk and save money, right? It took them nearly 5 months just to respond to the request made by senator Tom Coburn. Why are they so tight lipped about the subject for so long?

While it has been previously reported that DHS has solicited the purchase of 1.6 billion rounds of ammunition over the next four to five years, the government agency shows only 263,733,362 rounds in its current inventory.

But, DHS estimates it will spend $37,263,698 on ammunition in FY 2013. Last year, DHS spent $36,535,910, a decrease from 2011's ammunition expense of $38,237,305. Also, over the last three years the number of rounds purchased by DHS has declined.

So the purchase is to be made over the next 4 - 5 years. Right now they show a figure of having 263.7 million rounds, but they still insist on purchasing up to 1.6 billion rounds. My question is, why does an agency that operates, and can ONLY operate domestically need so many rounds over the coming years? It is clear to me that they are planning for something big, it can't be denied any longer, that DHS is planning for civil unrest. Why else would they need to purchase light armored vehicles in such a large quantity?

Over the years we've seen a slow build up since 9/11 of para military police forces and random checkpoints, with videos, but people still like to deny the truth at hand.

So why does the DHS purchase these bullets?

CBP (Customs & Border Protection) said that "70 percent of CBP ammunition is used for quarterly qualifications."
ICE (Immigration and Customs Enforcement) says it "allocates 1,000 rounds of ammunition per firearm per year for quarterly qualifications and training."
TSA (Transportation Security Administration) says "35 percent of TSA ammunition is allocated for operational use (qualifications and duty carry)."

So there you have it, they give CBP, ICE, TSA agents various different types of rounds, including hollow point rounds.

Now, I can understand allocating bullets to border security agents, I mean who wouldn't want that? But, you still have illegals getting through, drug cartel territory wars are still spreading, and border patrol isn't doing much to stop it, because they don't have to. If anything, this will be the force used to keep people within the US when the SHTF. The same can pretty much be said for ICE as well.

And lastly, we have the TSA, we all know and love these wonderful people. The ones that grope little children, steal from passengers, and just plain have no purpose. So we give these half wit goons guns and ammo, then people cry about people with mental health issues getting guns... DHS is arming these bafoons to set up random check points and make you feel like a criminal in a country that you were suppose to be free.

The indications are clear, everyday we're bombarded with news pertaining to police state issues, but people willfully bury their heads in the sand, and pretend as if nothing is happening, then ridicule the people who are wise to the scheme and speak out. Figured I could contribute some more to the police state news, since it's everywhere...

TLDR: DHS is purchasing ammo over the next 4-5 years, but why? For war with freedom loving patriots.


CNSNews

Imagine you know for a fact you're going to eat McDonald's for the next 10 years. By inking a contract with McDonald's NOW, you're locking in prices. Say in 10 years there's no Dollar Menu. You can still get McDoubles for $1 because of your contract.

Replace burgers with bullets, and that's exactly how the DHS bid works.

Originally posted by DaTroof
Imagine you know for a fact you're going to eat McDonald's for the next 10 years. By inking a contract with McDonald's NOW, you're locking in prices. Say in 10 years there's no Dollar Menu. You can still get McDoubles for $1 because of your contract.

Replace burgers with bullets, and that's exactly how the DHS bid works.

Right, I understand that, but apparently you didn't read the whole post. The question is why does an agency that can only operate domestically have to purchase so many rounds.. are they expecting a terrorist attack? is china invading? Iran tunneling into the US?

I did read a related article that hollow points are cheaper when quantity orders are placed. It is the opposite when buying from retailers.

The shelf life on them is pretty long when following code and kept in cool dry bunkers so this order may keep them supplied for 10 years or more.

No, that can't be true. Don't you remember? Some members here and others said we were conspiracy theorists and there is no ammo buy up. The DHS didn't buy any ammo. Nobody is coming for your guns. Now turn them all in or get SWAT teamed conspiracy theorist.

reply to post by eXia7



Let's assume each state has exactly 10,000 DHS weapons to load annually.

50 states x 10,000 = 500,000 weapons
10 round magazine x 500,000 = 5,000,000 bullets
Magazines emptied once a month (target practice, real world application)
5,000,000 bullets x 12 months = 60,000,000 bullets annually
60,000,000 x 10 years = 600,000,000

The other billion comes from more researched estimates which take exactly into account the number of weapons, amount of training hours, and potential real world application.

I just have to wonder when government started caring about saving money.

Originally posted by DaTroof
reply to post by eXia7

 

Let's assume each state has exactly 10,000 DHS weapons to load annually.

50 states x 10,000 = 500,000 weapons
10 round magazine x 500,000 = 5,000,000 bullets
Magazines emptied once a month (target practice, real world application)
5,000,000 bullets x 12 months = 60,000,000 bullets annually
60,000,000 x 10 years = 600,000,000

The other billion comes from more researched estimates which take exactly into account the number of weapons, amount of training hours, and potential real world application.

Fair enough, but these agencies continue expanding on their personnel, and have been forever. But you don't find it suspicious that agencies are stocking up on ammo, depleting the user market, and we keep getting more and more news each day of things related to a police state?

We haven't had a major terrorist attack since 9/11, and we all know most countries wouldn't invade the US. Why would they be pushing gun control, purchasing mass amounts of ammunition, and continue to downplay it like "Oh it's for training or to save money" knowing damn well that things are starting to become unstable. I know it's cool to try and deny everything you read here, but there is plenty of evidence to prove this as a possible future scenario within the US.

As much as I want to believe this and many threaders have some excellent points. I have a hard time believing just on the basis of supply and demand.

Though I have heard that ammunition on the shelves of dealers is starting to re-accumluate and you can find the ammo you need for your firearms again...

I'm just on the fence~

Originally posted by sulaw
As much as I want to believe this and many threaders have some excellent points. I have a hard time believing just on the basis of supply and demand.

Though I have heard that ammunition on the shelves of dealers is starting to re-accumluate and you can find the ammo you need for your firearms again...

I'm just on the fence~

True they may be recovering from all the panic buying, but you have nutcase senators calling to tax ammo, and outright ban the stuff. There have been instances where police departments were bartering for ammo, but DHS has no problem stocking up for themselves?

reply to post by eXia7


Ever think that the fear-driven articles you read are pushed into the alternative media because the gun industry knows that's where multiple gun purchasers get their news?

Originally posted by DaTroof
reply to post by eXia7

 

Ever think that the fear-driven articles you read are pushed into the alternative media because the gun industry knows that's where multiple gun purchasers get their news?

So what you're saying is that only paranoid people read sensationalist news and use that to form an opinion on purchasing their guns?

But we can just pretend that nothing is going on around us, it's trendy.

reply to post by jimmiec


I don’t think it was about saving money but more about using up their budget so they wouldn’t see a reduction in the next budget. The military des the same thing I think all governmental programs do. This is a huge problem in the way things are run but it has always been like that. At least they are not buying 10,000 dollar toilets or 1,000 dollar hammers at least I hope not.

So Homeland Security, to more efficiently make the homeland secure, has created a nationwide shortage affecting not only consumers but also police departments?

Where in the process of making the homeland secure do untrained and unarmed cops come in?

Nice try Big Sis. Now try harder.

reply to post by eXia7


Exactly why i'm on the fence...... The way I see it.... If DHS contracted the ammunition suppliers it will only sustain the cost of ammunition for them and not the civillians and police forces...

Am I thinking of this the wrong way, because when I contract out work it's only for my business and does not pertain to anyone else...


Thoughts?

Originally posted by Grimpachi
reply to post by jimmiec

 

I don’t think it was about saving money but more about using up their budget so they wouldn’t see a reduction in the next budget. The military des the same thing I think all governmental programs do. This is a huge problem in the way things are run but it has always been like that. At least they are not buying 10,000 dollar toilets or 1,000 dollar hammers at least I hope not.

10k toilet and 1k hammer~ priceless lol

I do understand the budget, reduction, using it up before its gone as it apply's to more than DHS and I've seen this done in several business's~

The whole scenerio stinks of something..... I won't say conspiracy but I won't deny it either.....

So the fence it is.....

PLAY BALL~

reply to post by eXia7


That's not what I'm saying at all. I'm saying that those most likely to purchase multiple weapons and/or stock up on ammo because of fear driven headlines will be the ones with fear-driven headlines rammed down their throats. If I publish a story about Pepsi being taken off the shelves, you bet your ass there's someone out there who will buy a lot of Pepsi, just in case.

I am finally starting to realize something after a year of complaining about them doing this.

I HATE to say this....

But realistically there is a wide berth of Americans that have INTENT to start shooting at the first event that gives them any reason to so much as have concern.... In the event of any large disaster that is near or national in scope your going to wake up and find thousands of wanna be "Governors" around you, badly informed and loaded to the gills with ammo.

My thoughts on this came about in a discussion last night involving Nuclear Meltdown if Korea fired off an EMP most had already decided humanity was doomed... the prospect of getting deisel fuel from Canada or Mexico to reactor back up in under a week.... (likely very easy) has been rules out.... it was every man for him self (because you know a shotgun will help if all reactors melt anyway lol)

And I realized....

DHS needs the freakin amo

Too many people have decided given the chance they are going awol.... in a true crisis.... the food wont get through, the reactors will melt, not because these things have to happen because this "trend" is out of control.....

A lot of people in here....and all over WANT THIS

They don't have guns to sneak through the woods and escape... or hunker into homes and protect loved ones...

If SHTF.... a lot of these guys have "plans" lol

I can see now.... in an emergency.... I'll never reach my kids alive. Or even make it from work... where I live.... I'd make it, no fault zones, no reactors, far from any germ epi centers, not a nuclear target nor along the coast...

But i'll die without even saying goodbye

Cus some goober will shoot me in the face a commandeer my vehicle and 4 bottles of fricken water because he has personally decided "the end is nigh" of his own fricken accord

I got 50.00 that says... if I'm on road to my family given martial law or any other scenario.... reach a DHS checkpoint put my hands up, show Id and remain calm.... they'll let me pass and even if god damn Nibaru herself is about to collide with the Earth... I'll get to say Goodbye

And 200,000 morons out there.... will try to skin me alive to make a new coat because they got an exaggerated report of a bad flu season in Zimbabwe that year and the cousin they screw sneezed in bed the night before (exaggerating but some of you get it)

A lot of my fellow man is starting to scare me.... a lot more than DHS who at least will be predictable

And the enemy of my enemy is my friend...

The Nuke meltdown thing.... there's no surviving that with any prep really or weapon.... and reality check, it's nuts in the street that will likely cause these scenarios.... trucks not getting through, messages not being delivered.... food being intercepted things like this are more likely to kill me... than any actual disaster is

Price my ass.

They've decided they need the Ammo

Likely they do

reply to post by penninja
SHTF? Nibiru? Nuke meltdown?!

What's any of this have to do with the current ammo shortage? Nothing. Maybe you and others have spent too much time reading conspiracies, I get the sense you think that's all gun owners are concerned about. Rein in that wild imagination of yours and realize there is a real world out there with real cops suffering a real ammo shortage.

Jesus, paranoid people are scary!

Originally posted by Sek82
reply to post by penninja

 

SHTF? Nibiru? Nuke meltdown?!

What's any of this have to do with the current ammo shortage? Nothing. Maybe you and others have spent too much time reading conspiracies, I get the sense you think that's all gun owners are concerned about. Rein in that wild imagination of yours and realize there is a real world out there with real cops suffering a real ammo shortage.

Jesus, paranoid people are scary!

Your an idiot

This thread is NOT about an ammo shortage

My question is, why does an agency that operates, and can ONLY operate domestically need so many rounds over the coming years? It is clear to me that they are planning for something big, it can't be denied any longer, that DHS is planning for civil unrest. Why else would they need to purchase light armored vehicles in such a large quantity?

This and every other thread on the subject of the DHS ammo purchase is about the same dang thing.... WHY Dhs is stock piling.

The reason for this is because for there "Millions of rounds" the American people have stored Billions....

Please learn to read, The entire point of my post is the opposite of what your portraying it to be and your obviously blind behind your own agenda. I directly answered this thread.... In the EVENT of an EVENT DHS obviously doesn't feel it can do it's job without lunatics with guns taking matter into their own hands and I propose that in reality there is not one person in any community anywhere in America that doesn't have at least ONE guy in the neighborhood.... thats armed to the teeth and plans on taking matters into his own hands not simply defending himself

I happen to have one of those guys living right across the lot from me....

25 guns.... and "helicopters are watching him" (never seen a single helicopter btw lol....they aren't flippin there)

Your probably the sort that thinks "well this is exactly why I need a gun, I can take a guy like that down and protect my family"...... MAYBE.... Maybe not. You might be eating dinner when the first bullet flys through the wall of your home and drops you into your soup in all reality

I'm just saying.... I USED to think that way too

But i SEE why they are stockpiling and the reality guns of my own or not, when heavily loaded novices start shooting reality states I better have LUCK on my side more than anything else.... and I don't want to be sheriff anyway

And reality.... Even guys like you that THINK they need guns PLAN on being able to do something about the crazies.... the "paranoid" as you put it.... that's a lot of god damned cross fire everywhere to contend with and as far as i'm concerned makes you just as much of a problem in a "situation" as the nutcase