NYC asks: What happened to the 1,116 missing 9/11 victims?

Originally posted by samkent

Please tell me these things. I will believe you.

A United Airlines Milage Plus card.
A Foam seat cushion.
Life Jackets.
Airliner Itinerary sheet
A Wallet
ATM Bank card
A Letter (mail)
A business card - Day Planner - Wedding band - Address book - Visa Check card - Check Book (same Person)

Here and Here

AS has been said. Why plant this stuff? It's easier and safer (conspiracy wise) just to say everything burned up.

All that but no black boxes?
just silly

The reason all that paper survived but black boxes and people didn't is because whatever was working on the iron in the steel/people/chairs/black boxes/filing cabinets etc didn't affect the wood pulp.

Btw my friends dad was a firefighters who died on 9/11. I will only say that after many years they finally came clean that the remains that were buried many not have been his fathers after fragments with DNA were found. Fragments.

if u thinks planes collapsed those buildings then u are wrong

If u think explosives brought them low u are incorrect.

Neither can describe what we saw on 9/11. So what did it is still unknown.

When you exclude the impossible. What ever is left,however inprobable, must be the truth.

Originally posted by bacci0909

Originally posted by intrptr
Maybe a floor or two would "crush" people.

911 collapse was a hi speed blender filled with steel girders, blocks of cement, ground glass and office furniture.

Oh yah, and a few bits of flesh.

Ahh, ladies and gentlemen we have the newly developed "high-speed blender effect". As with the pancake theory and the suggestion that the "plane" that hit the pentagons wings vaporized upon impact, we are again supposed to allow the events of this fateful day to defy any resemblance of basic physics and common-sense logic. Got it

Last time I read, the Pentagon was hardened for nuke attacks. Here's a video link to a 'dead horse.'


The question shouldn't be how can an airplane vaporize upon impact, but how does a pilot in training fly an airliner over 500mpg a few dozen feet from the ground and smack into the side of the Pentagon. It takes Spec Op pilots many hours and specialized tf radars to get to that level...and the flt school flunkies did it on their first try without specialized radars or proper training.

There should've been more bone fragments at the ground zero site. Over 1k bodies not found is BS. Wonder what the truth really is.

Originally posted by samkent
reply to post by ParasuvO

 

Explosives were used, anyone can see this.

But not you.

How were explosives used on the floors above the impact point?

If explosives were required to turn all the concrete in the floor pans and the central core to dust then there must have been explosives placed on ALL floors and at ALL points of each floor. ie just inside the windows and all the way to the core. Including the vertical surfaces of the core. And you have to do all 110 floors.
That's a lot of explosives and yet how many window were blown out?????
And there were no unexploded charges found during clean up.

How was this achieved?

You have no understanding whatsoever about the mechanics of demolition, which you make painfully clear with your statements and questions. you would NOT have to have explosives set at each floor...the use of mini-nukes at intervals would be more than sufficient to dustify the concrete as seen. Think for a moment about the sequence as seen on the video of the " collapses " ( demolitions )...first the upper section of floors above the strike zone begins to tilt, showing a weakening of the outer support structure at a corner or side, no doubt as a reaction to incendiary devices or thermate working on major supports...as seen in the dripping molten metal at one corner..but before the section can fall over, the structure below it holding it up explodes into dust and allows the upper4 section to drop straight down.

This upper section does NOT continue downward and crush or imact and slow down the descent of the section...it explodes into dust as well. It is if there is a " zone of explosions ' at the upper floors remaining below, and this explosing and dustifying continues downward, shredding massive steel beams, many of which are on FIRE and smoking from intense heat, blown far from the site and in some cases imbedded in buildings nearby.

The towers were both rigged the same way, with the structure below the strike zone exploding upward and outward when the uppse section begins its drop...through the path of MOST resistance. The resistance of all 48 massive main steel supports was totally eliminated...that allowed the progression of the explosing upper sections to continue without one side sustaining less damage than the other. totally explosive event, with fine dust into the tiny micron size blosing all over and standing inches deep all over the city. And some people say this was from GRAVITY?/ Puhleeeeeze.

Gravity CANNOT account for people and 90% of most materials blasting into tiny shards...impossible. No grinding of concrete can perform that feat. Cannot happen. Did not happen. Unless someone just wants to be argumentative abd irritating for attentions sake, they just cannot believe that gravity could possibly account for the energy sources needed for these events. No rational thinking person without an aganda could possibly justify the notion that massive steel framed skyscrapers could possibly turn into dust and molten steel and pyroclastic type eruptions due to fossil fuel fires...cool fires that could be out out with " two lines " according to the fire chief onscene...that statement like;y triggered the demolition, in my opinion. If the fires were put out the perps could not claim that raging inferno's were responsible for " melting the steel "..so the public would swallow any halfway plausible story, no matter how unsupported by the evidence.

Tiny shards of human beings were found on the roofs of nearby buildings, which proves that tremendous explosions reduced people to bits and flung them hundreds of yards away. Had the towers shown signs of DEFORMATIONS. prior to explosive collapse, it would have happened totally differently. The towers did not fall into themselves..that is an impossibility. The structure underneath has a known mass and resistanve factor, and it could only be reduced to zero so the structure could follow the path of MOST resistance by rendering the core and steel supports useless for resistance and ready to blast apart for hauling away. The towers blew up all the way down to the bottom. There were no floors stacked upon each other as if supports had given way under weight..no no.

Instead we see massive piles of dust, steel beams and debris. Most concrete was reduced to dust. Not chunks like if gravity had been involved, but dust. ONLY explosive energy can account for dustification of concrete and people. gravity cannot. You cannot escape this logic and fact. so please don't come back with some vacuous and immaterial demand for more proof. Address the issue of energy needed for what is seen and then come to grips with the reality of the issue, and THEN comment. I am sure you will see the obvious logic and adjust your position accordingly.

People who are really interested in the topic of the "victims" of 9/11, should check out a 788 page .pdf file from the Center for Disease Control.

It is called Work Table IV. Deaths From Each Cause By Month, Race and Sex: United States. 2001 It lists all the causes of death recorded by the CDC (in 788 pages of small print) and the numbers of people who died from those causes for each month in 2001.

It is hard to find any indication at all that anything unusual happened in September of 2001. Here's an example on page 730 of the document:

The large number at the left is the total for the year for that cause of death. The fourth number from the right is the number for September.

www.cdc.gov...

Fall from, out of, or through building or structure (W13)
ALL RACES, BOTH SEXES 580 48 29 42 50 52 45 37 48 62 69 48 50

Interesting to note that more people fell out of, or through a building or structure in October of that year than in September.

I haven't checked every page of the document. Most of it is related to biological causes like diseases or health conditions or medical procedures, but of the sorts of causes I would associate with the deaths at the WTC, I don't see the statistical spikes I would expect to see in September.

Here's another example from page 761:

Exposure to smoke, fire, and flames, undetermined intent (Y26)
ALL RACES, BOTH SEXES 76 12 6 6 4 4 3 5 10 13 8 - 5

This time September is the worst month, one incident more than occurred in January.

These figures obviously need more study, but just the fact that so many names are not on the SSDI and that the CDC figures don't always seem to catch 9/11 on the radar begs a lot of questions, for serious people.

Originally posted by richierich

You have no understanding whatsoever about the mechanics of demolition, which you make painfully clear with your statements and questions... the use of mini-nukes

Somehow your comment about lack of understanding then bringing in "mini-nukes" as an explanation seem at odds. It's sort of a facepalm, just sayin'.

Mini nukes. Really?

Originally posted by ecapsretuo
Remember the vehicles surrounding the WTC; they were absolutely incinerated. it is not possible that a building collapse would cause such intense heat at street level.

There were hundreds of vehicles which stood where they parked with the tires, interior, anything that was not metal - gone! Burnt into the air!

1.bp.blogspot.com...


The interior of a cop car was practcally "vaporized' by the high heat.

2.bp.blogspot.com...

This is just another testament to the fact that this was more than just a building collapse.

I notice the photos were very carefully cropped.

Have you seen the larger photos which show this same thing? You'll see some cars burnt, some not. The ones that were running had engine fires from the dust intake.

Originally posted by ParasuvO
reply to post by samkent

 

The computer you are typing on has thousands of times more difficult calculations and technological marvels than it would take to pull off something like that and you are incredulous ??

Ahh, the small minds of the incredulous.

Ahh, the comparison of apples to parakeets. The argument works against you, though, if it's ok to embrace difficult odds, then surely you are ok with the official explanation.

Originally posted by randyvs
reply to post by kwakakev

 

I don't remember ever hearing any complaints of foul odor, that should occur when a thousand bodies are
burning up in a demo pile. I just don't find that to damn believable. Just like the rest of the BS.

edit on 3-4-2013 by randyvs because: (no reason given)

Burning people don't smell that bad once the hair is gone, it's more the concept of what you're smelling that's makes your stomach turn. Buried in a pile of tons of office crap and burned slowly over time, it'll smell like burning garbage.

Originally posted by randyvs
Eleven hundred bodies ground to dust yet a passport lands on the sidewalk unscathed ? Excuses for a delusion that is the OS.

If you've ever seen a big scale thing like a plane crash site or a direct tornado hit, you'll see some stuff come out unscathed there, too, it's not like it's impossible. Some things just end up fairly intact while others are not. Usually it's lighter, smaller things that make it.

So what you're saying op is these 1100 people never existed or they faked their deaths? That's the way it seems, and if that's your point I'm sure you could talk to the families of every single listed victim and they might disagree with you.

I personally believe that the original intent of the planners of 9/11 was to evacuate the buildings prior to initiating the controlled demolitions. I think that the way they were able to sell the plan to their influential backers among the power elite was to assure them that real casualties would be kept to an absolute minimum, consisting primarily of firefighters and emergency responders.

To boost the outrage factor, they created "vicsims", simulated victims that would be mourned by actors hired for the roles. There have been accusations made against some of the "professional victims" associated with 9/11 along that line and suggestions of the same paradigm connected with the Sandy Hook shootings.

However, they did not reckon with the efficiency of the FDNY, who raced up to the site of the fires in the South Tower faster than expected, the famous "two isolated pockets of fire" referred to in the famous radio transmission.

At that point the perps panicked and detonated the South Tower out of sequence (it had been "struck" second), to prevent the fires from being extinguished, and the congruent removal of the cause for a building "collapse". This detonation then led to the premature detonation of the North Tower, after they waited as long as they could to evacuate people.

The premature detonations created many more genuine victims than they had intended to create and led to the current situation where real victims names are mixed in with the names of the "vicsims".

That's the theory anyway. This is all part and parcel of the huge extent to which 9/11 was faked.

How do you keep something that big, involving that many people a secret? Well you don't and they didn't. How do you keep whistleblowers from talking? Well, when it comes to a capital offense, they generally don't talk unless they can do a plea deal. But when the chief perps control the justice system, who do you do the deal with?

I have done enough body recovery work to tell you this figure is entirely probable.

You combine massive force with heat and 99% of you remains will decompose over a 2 week period. Turning to liquid.


Over a few hundred degrees even DNA can be corrupted enough to not be validated via any test we presently have. .

Originally posted by thesmokingman
This is a valid question that I believe needs to be addressed. As this article states, when buildings collapse, the debris crushes people, not turn them into shreds. This is a good point. That means about 1/3 of the bodies are missing?

In every building collapse in history, all of the victims’ bodies have been recovered more or less intact. That is because falling buildings crush human bodies. They do not shred them into tiny pieces, or cause them to vanish into thin air.

This is a very interesting article that really makes you think. I will just let you read it and decide for yourselves what to think?
I think its great that this is not going away and people are still asking questions and trying to investigate it more. presstv.com...

I am NOT a 9/11 "truther" type (please excuse the term; I hate such terms, but don't really know a better word for it), but that's a LOT of bodies to be "missing". I could see SOME being vaporized, where the planes hit, from jet fuel. Some, but over a thousand? How many people would have been in the area of the plane strikes? Are those the people whose remains are missing? How many of those people could have been elsewhere? Meaning, maybe they decided to vanish or something. That would be odd, I know, but I have heard that discussed. Do we know where all those missing were supposed to be? That would seem to be step one here.

Originally posted by Wrabbit2000
Iran really really doesn't like us, do they? That is their media organization, after all. (Owned by the Republic of Iran Broadcasting).

I find it more than a little disingenuous myself that they fail to mention a very important part while suggesting over a thousand people just vanished ..or that there is some nefarious reason for the debris being less than paper calculations would have put it at.

The fires in the debris pile burned for 3 months. A friend of mine was a detective with NYPD when that happened and worked down at the site in the early days. He's confirmed the burning rubble deep within the rubble piles and I'm sure that was more than sufficient to incinerate people. That would explain why they found intact parts or nothing at all. Not too much in between. It's sure a morbid thing, but funeral homes cremate people every day in a rather short amount of time. 3 months probably didn't leave anything to find.

Besides... I know they sifted that debris like an archeological site as it came into Fish Kills. Looking for or hiding evidence, whichever side a person takes on it...but either way, what could possibly be left to find? It's ghoulish to even do this, IMO.

You know, I have to amend the above. I had forgotten about three months of burning. yes, that would easily destroy any tangible remains. In any case, I agree; it's way past time to do this, and they need to leave things be. I am very sorry for those that lost loved ones, but what good would anything do now? Unless there was some compelling reason to think the person wasn't there, I don't see a need for this. I would rather see more focus on preventing further attacks, preventing crazy people from shooting up military bases, and so forth. Let those that were lost then rest.

reply to post by thesmokingman


So 1,000+ bodies totally destroyed/vaporized/obliterated by fire/crushing/shredding, but Mohamed Atta's passport comes through just fine?

Then there is the issue that a massive crime scene was hauled away without being appropriately investigated.

It is ridiculous, however, 11+ years later, to try to analyze debris for human remains, in particular DNA evidence. The money would be better spent waterboarding the former Bush administration members to find out what really happened on 9/11. And if waterboarding isn't effective at rooting out the truth, then try beating, electrocuting and subjecting them to hypothermia like they had had done to Afghans and Iraqis.

Originally posted by MrInquisitive
reply to post by thesmokingman

 

So 1,000+ bodies totally destroyed/vaporized/obliterated by fire/crushing/shredding, but Mohamed Atta's passport comes through just fine?

Was the passport buried under the rubble for a few months, or was it outside?

Did they find the people who jumped from the building before the collapse?

Originally posted by MrInquisitive
reply to post by thesmokingman

 

but Mohamed Atta's passport comes through just fine?

Get your facts strait. It was not Atta's passport and the passport was found before the buildings collapsed.




I found this photo in the NIST photo archives.

Originally posted by waypastvne

Originally posted by MrInquisitive
reply to post by thesmokingman

 

but Mohamed Atta's passport comes through just fine?

Get your facts strait. It was not Atta's passport and the passport was found before the buildings collapsed.

I found this photo in the NIST photo archives.

edit on 5-4-2013 by waypastvne because: (no reason given)

So terribly sorry; it was apparently Satam Muhammed Abdel Rahman al-Suqami's passport, another 9/11 hijacker, not Atta's. And the wikipedia article from which I read this also mentions that many news outlets mistakenly reported it as Atta's. And I was only repeating what I recall hearing from some long discussion of curious facts about the 9/11 job.

I find the picture curious. So, before the building collapses, a "passerby" happens to find it AND takes a picture of it -- not yet having any idea that it was the purported passport of one of the purported hijackers. You figure this "passerby" was taking pictures of all the other detritus he/she found around the WTC? And someone is going to be looking carefully around on the ground when there are two skyscrapers burning and falling material and people are dropping all around? I'd be looking up and getting out of harm's way my self.

So I get your point about how this passport didn't suffer from the collapse, but how did it so conveniently avoid being immolated in the crash and ensuing fire? Were other items from other passengers also found? I haven't heard about any. Did the hijacker bust out a window and toss it about before the crash? This seems the only possibility given the lack of other similar items from the passengers of the doomed flight.

Here is a challenge for the members of the truth movement who find the survival of Satam's passport and it being found by a passerby unbelievable.

This is the man who found the passport.



www.youtube.com...

His name is Richard Wozniak.

Here is where he describes finding the passport.

I was standing in the middle of what were the remains of a passenger aircraft. There were seats and engine parts smashed through car windows everywhere. What seemed to be an engine was embedded into the sidewalk and body parts were strewn all over the street. Then I looked down to my feet and picked up a passport. It was a Saudi passport. It was green with Arabic writing and as I opened it and saw the man’s face inside it and I felt as if I were looking into the eyes of someone that may have been part of the terror that I was witnessing around me and I later learned that I was right as I passed it off to an FBI agent that was standing a block away on West side Hwy who immediately took it from me. He then instructed me to leave the area but before he could notice I ran back to the side of the Bankers Trust building determined to help find survivors that may have been hurt in the streets or in the cars. Then my life was changed forever.

www.christian-faith.com...

And his email address can be found here:
www.christian-faith.com...

If you believe finding that passport on the street is impossible maybe you should contact him and ask him yourself. Let us know what he says.

As for how the passport made it through building:

Originally posted by MrInquisitive



I find the picture curious. So, before the building collapses, a "passerby" happens to find it AND takes a picture of it -- not yet having any idea that it was the purported passport of one of the purported hijackers. You figure this "passerby" was taking pictures of all the other detritus he/she found around the WTC? And someone is going to be looking carefully around on the ground when there are two skyscrapers burning and falling material and people are dropping all around? I'd be looking up and getting out of harm's way my self.

The photo was taken by someone else. I would need to go back through the NIST photos to find out who.

Edit photo by Chris Sorensen

Goto this page and click continue.
wtcdata.nist.gov...

then come back and click this link to view the photo

wtcdata.nist.gov...

Were other items from other passengers also found? I haven't heard about any.

Originally posted by FollowTheWhiteRabbit
reply to post by anoncoholic

 

Please don't resort to emotional rhetoric. It's the last bastion of a losing argument.

I need to save that quote. It should disarm but once someones goes there its already too late.