Is Christ's Resurrection Important to you (Theists)?

Originally posted by SaturnFX

Originally posted by jiggerj
reply to post by SaturnFX

 

I don't consider his teachings very profound, so if I were religious - there better be miracles!

I think context is important.
Today its rather low on the bar, but back when he (supposedly)walked, in the area he was at, it was profound and a whole new way of thinking about how one interacted with another.

...so...don't stone people if you caught them cheating? wow...

And if someone steals your coat, give them your shirt so they can be warm enough to steal your shoes in the night when you're asleep.

Don't worry about food. God will always provide for you, unless of course you live in a third world country where rebels are taking all the food and starving you to death.

Originally posted by adjensen

Originally posted by SaturnFX
Right...so the Theology would then turn into a Philosophy..and Christ would go from God to Buddha.

No, probably not. If you take away the resurrection and other supernatural factors, Christ's story is not particularly engaging and would be seen as an effort to reform orthodox Judaism of his time. Anyone who still wanted to follow Christ, even in the face of the refutation of Christian theology, would have to convert to Judaism.

It would also collapse Islam (considering they see him as a prophet/magical also).

reply to post by OptimusSubprime


Exactly...but the resurrection is only symbolic representation of consciousness, and it is not the intellectual property of Christianity.

So many people stuck in the literal. Tunnel vision...blinders.

To most "followers" of Christian doctrine, everything pre-dating Christianity is Paganism, and therefore wrong. Everything post-dating Christianity is New Age, and therefore wrong.

I rarely post, but this is important stuff.

Oh well. It is what it is.

Originally posted by jiggerj

Originally posted by SaturnFX

Originally posted by jiggerj
reply to post by SaturnFX

 

I don't consider his teachings very profound, so if I were religious - there better be miracles!

I think context is important.
Today its rather low on the bar, but back when he (supposedly)walked, in the area he was at, it was profound and a whole new way of thinking about how one interacted with another.

...so...don't stone people if you caught them cheating? wow...

And if someone steals your coat, give them your shirt so they can be warm enough to steal your shoes in the night when you're asleep.

Don't worry about food. God will always provide for you, unless of course you live in a third world country where rebels are taking all the food and starving you to death.

Yes, the problem with religion is the same with the hippy's peacenik stuff...reality interrupts such notions. Only works if everyone worldwide is on the same page.

Originally posted by JamesTheScribe
To most "followers" of Christian doctrine, everything pre-dating Christianity is Paganism, and therefore wrong. Everything post-dating Christianity is New Age, and therefore wrong.

And then there's the catholics....world unto themselves.

Which saint do I pray to when travelling again? and which one is for crops?

XD

Originally posted by SaturnFX

Originally posted by adjensen

Originally posted by SaturnFX
Right...so the Theology would then turn into a Philosophy..and Christ would go from God to Buddha.

No, probably not. If you take away the resurrection and other supernatural factors, Christ's story is not particularly engaging and would be seen as an effort to reform orthodox Judaism of his time. Anyone who still wanted to follow Christ, even in the face of the refutation of Christian theology, would have to convert to Judaism.

It would also collapse Islam (considering they see him as a prophet/magical also).

No, they don't believe in the supernatural nature of Christ, so if you disproved the resurrection, you'd be doing them a favour.

Originally posted by adjensen

Originally posted by SaturnFX

Originally posted by adjensen

Originally posted by SaturnFX
Right...so the Theology would then turn into a Philosophy..and Christ would go from God to Buddha.

No, probably not. If you take away the resurrection and other supernatural factors, Christ's story is not particularly engaging and would be seen as an effort to reform orthodox Judaism of his time. Anyone who still wanted to follow Christ, even in the face of the refutation of Christian theology, would have to convert to Judaism.

It would also collapse Islam (considering they see him as a prophet/magical also).

No, they don't believe in the supernatural nature of Christ, so if you disproved the resurrection, you'd be doing them a favour.

Incorrect
Source
They believed in his miracle birth, and that he did many other magical and miraculous things..they simply don't believe in the resurrection, but the question is also about the magic.

reply to post by JamesTheScribe

Originally posted by JamesTheScribe

The Bible is actually two fundamentally opposing doctrines. The open literal and the hidden symbolic.

I am not a Christian...and neither was "Jesus"...and he would frown upon being worshipped. To worship Christ as a man or a God is completely contrary to what his "teachings" state.

How many times has the Bible been re-worded, re-translated, & re-written?

The teachings being worshiped are stories that have been refined and retold time & time again by man after man after man after man after man etc......

Something that has always seemed a bit odd to me is why people make such a big deal about the alleged sacrifice.

That would be near equivalent to me building a Mr. Potato Head with the sole intention of allowing someone to smash it with a sledgehammer.

Would that really be a 'Sacrifice'? Nah, not so much. That particular Mr. Potato Head means nothing to me. After all, the reason I built the dam thing in the first place, was just so it could be smashed.

Originally posted by jiggerj
reply to post by SaturnFX

 

I don't consider his teachings very profound, so if I were religious - there better be miracles!

Pretty much.

All he did, really, was say "Oi, stop being pillocks to each other" in a time of monumental pillockery.

nailed to a lump of wood for it, sure.

but I rekon right now there is some person, somewhere, who doesn't know it, but to someone else they're about to make a world of brilliant difference... and no one else will ever know.

I bet we all have a personal jesus, somewhere...

Originally posted by BlueMule

Originally posted by SaturnFX

Would you remain a Christian?

Yup.

"The Christian of the future will be a mystic or he will not exist at all" -Karl Rahner

For Christian mystics like me who know the living Christ, the simplistic exoteric theology of the orthodox uninitiated mainstream is for children anyway. Children need to grow up already and get on solid food.

edit on 2-4-2013 by BlueMule because: (no reason given)

Well then.

That's unsettling.

God has spoken, it seems.

*grabs roast pig carcass*nomnom

reply to post by BrokenCircles


Yes...and the teachings predate Christianity.

It doesn't matter how many times its been translated or rewritten. You get what you get from it, incorporate it with non-biblical teachings and observable reality, and the truth sorts itself out...but not for everyone. If you ACTUALLY believe in a virgin becoming impregnated by a spirit, and a man walking on water, and that same man being tortured and killed, then physically resurrecting...and ACTUALLY BELIEVE that by not believing it happened you are doomed to an eterity of burning, then you have read it wrong...and that is what the re-writers are counting on.

It's all about fear and control.

This is really so elementary.

Originally posted by SaturnFX

No, they don't believe in the supernatural nature of Christ, so if you disproved the resurrection, you'd be doing them a favour.

Incorrect
Source
They believed in his miracle birth, and that he did many other magical and miraculous things..they simply don't believe in the resurrection, but the question is also about the magic.

That isn't what I said -- they don't believe that Christ had a supernatural nature, or that he was resurrected, so if you disproved that, they'd be happy. You'd probably have a fair number of former Christians turn to Islam, for that matter (not me, but others would.)

Theoretically, one might be able to disprove the resurrection with physical evidence, but I don't see how you could disprove the miracles, as all of the eyewitnesses have been gone for a couple millennia, and there would be no evidence apart from testimony.

reply to post by SaturnFX

And that is the point overall.
The whole thing...what is the thing? is the thing the message or the man.

I would say the message... and the man, not the miracles...

IF he is "the truth, The Life, and the way"...

then the truth is his LIFE, and THE WAY he lived it...

He said he left us an example... and HE is that example.

John 13:15
For I have given you an example, that ye should do as I have done to you.

Originally posted by JamesTheScribe
It's all about fear and control.

Religion does that quite well. Spirituality and belief in god or some other deity, is one of the strongest passions that human beings can hold. It's not hard to see how men in positions of power can seek to take control of this, and use it to retain and ensure their power grows.

Millions watching charlatan ministers on the tv daily, sending thousands of dollars for wishes and gods direct involvement in their lives.

Millions more who think nothing of going to church, handing over some coins and praying to the air.

All the torment and unending suffering should you be a sinner without repent.

A system set up so that the very nature of our selves is the very reason for hell.

It is most definitely a means of controlling great numbers of people, who would be otherwise talking about spooky monsters and rattling bones to ward off demons.

Originally posted by BlueMule

Originally posted by SaturnFX

Would you remain a Christian?

Yup.

"The Christian of the future will be a mystic or he will not exist at all" -Karl Rahner

For Christian mystics like me who know the living Christ, the simplistic exoteric theology of the orthodox uninitiated mainstream is for children anyway. Children need to grow up already and get on solid food.

edit on 2-4-2013 by BlueMule because: (no reason given)

Thihihihihi. . I agree but do I need to label myself a "Christian" to be? Are you not my soul brother even if I do not label myself?



Lol. Hidden in plain sight. It is so hilarious that people do not notice it. Spin Spin Spin Spin Spin. .

Nobody should remain a Christian if Christ died and never rose, its the whole foundation of Christianity.
As for God providing everything for Christians, where is that written in the bible.
So many people (atheists included) believe Benny Hinn and Joyce Meyer and their respective prosperity gospels is a true representation of Christianity.
Not only are the Christians who believe that nonsense in for a shock, but also atheists when they see Christians persecuted for their beliefs.
If the average non believer isnt shocked by the hate for Christians then they will truly beheartless.

It rains on the believer as well as the non believer.

Originally posted by LittleByLittle
I agree but do I need to label myself a "Christian" to be?

Not in my opinion.

Are you not my soul brother even if I do not label myself?

I am.

reply to post by adjensen

Originally posted by adjensen

Originally posted by SaturnFX

Originally posted by adjensen
Why would anyone? Christ's death and resurrection is kinda the core of the whole thing.

And that is the point overall.
The whole thing...what is the thing? is the thing the message or the man.

Neither, that's the theology.

You're essentially asking if anyone would follow a religion whose theology had been shown to be completely inaccurate. It has nothing to do with Christ or his message, really.

That's the thing, though. Saturn was asking if the man was worshipped for what he did, and not what he said. Death and resurrection are not exactly demonstrations of love and caring. They're magic tricks. Why isn't there a day celebrating the resurrection of Lazarus? Why isn't there a day celebrating the day the paralyzed man stood and picked up his own mat, or the day the blind man was cured?

How exactly is his own death and resurrection relevant to the message he was giving? And no, any man teaching what he taught wouldn't place an ounce of value in the idea of immortality. Immortality is a weak gimmick, and if Jesus was really the man people say he was, then immortality would have been worth exactly as much to him as shiny metal. A man of mortal temptation, as well as the mentality of a magpie? Eternal life is only important to those who are afraid of dying.

So why does the death and resurrection mean so much?

reply to post by borntowatch

As for God providing everything for Christians, where is that written in the bible.

And whatsoever ye shall ask in my name, that will I do, that the Father may be glorified in the Son.

And Jesus answered and said to them, "Truly I say to you, if you have faith and do not doubt, you will not only do what was done to the fig tree, but even if you say to this mountain, `Be taken up and cast into the sea,' it will happen. "And all things you ask in prayer, believing, you will receive.)

Again I say to you, that if two of you agree on earth about anything that they may ask, it shall be done for them by My Father who is in heaven. For where two or three have gathered together in My name, I am there in their midst

Amen, I say to you, whoever says to this mountain, 'Be lifted up and thrown into the sea,' and does not doubt in his heart but believes that what he says will happen, it shall be done for him. Therefore I tell you, all that you ask for in prayer, believe that you will receive it and it shall be yours.

If you remain in me and my words remain in you, ask for whatever you want and it will be done for you.

It was not you who chose me, but I who chose you and appointed you to go and bear fruit that will remain, so that whatever you ask the Father in my name he may give you

On that day you will not question me about anything. Amen, amen, I say to you, whatever you ask the Father in my name he will give you. Until now you have not asked anything in my name; ask and you will receive, so that your joy may be complete.

I think the greater question is "What are you Christians praying for?" If Jesus was telling the truth, war, poverty and disease should be a thing of past!