Is Christ's Resurrection Important to you (Theists)?

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posted on Apr, 2 2013 @ 04:35 PM
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So, was wondering.

What If... (gotta love what if questions).
What if it was found out beyond a shadow of a doubt that Jesus did not resurrect, nor did he do any of the miracles that was claimed he did.

Would you remain a Christian? Do you follow the miracle man simply for being magical, or do you follow the wisdom the man is said to have delivered to the world.

If the former, and you found out it never happened, would you revert to judism or another religion?

If the latter, then do you also find equal "divinity" with modern day philosophers (such as Deepak Chopra, Dalai Lama, etc)

Do Christians follow Christ, or the lessons of Christ is the question here..and if its lessons, does the man behind the message even matter (after all, if it makes sense and you know in your core is good, then what does the messenger matter)




posted on Apr, 2 2013 @ 05:04 PM
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Originally posted by SaturnFX
So, was wondering.

What If... (gotta love what if questions).
What if it was found out beyond a shadow of a doubt that Jesus did not resurrect, nor did he do any of the miracles that was claimed he did.

Would you remain a Christian?

Why would anyone? Christ's death and resurrection is kinda the core of the whole thing.

The knowledge wouldn't turn me into an atheist, however, as I have personal experiences and insights that there is a God, and he acts in a manner (at least towards me) that is consistent with the description usually given to the Christian God. So I don't know what I'd "become", probably independent.



posted on Apr, 2 2013 @ 05:05 PM
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well, at the moment, I got 3 flags and no responses...will take that as a hint that the question itself requires a bit of pondering.

Anyhow, I will add a bit of my personal view.

I think the story and lessons of Christ (real or not, that doesn't matter) transends the magical stuff that is attributed to him. Stay the judgement, try love instead of hate for those whom wrong you, etc etc...at the time, it was pretty alien conceptually...so, even if it was just some dirt farmer, I think those are damn good lessons and should stand the test of time.

I don't agree with all that is said he taught, but most of it is actually pretty accurate...at this point (2k years later) it seems pretty common sense. Since then we have also had some stellar philosophers, humanists, esoteric individuals whom have added on, clarified, or created deeper messages than those, but in regards to foundation, Christ did well (or his PR people).
Is there such thing as an atheist Christian?


And on the flip side, I reckon magical or not, Christ was mostly try to get his message across moreso than how awesome he was personally. I think if he came back and seen loads of people worshipping him as a god, he would potentially face palm (especially when he notes his messages are for the most part, ignored in leu of just worshipping his life).



posted on Apr, 2 2013 @ 05:06 PM
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Originally posted by adjensen
Why would anyone? Christ's death and resurrection is kinda the core of the whole thing.

And that is the point overall.
The whole thing...what is the thing? is the thing the message or the man.



posted on Apr, 2 2013 @ 05:07 PM
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reply to post by SaturnFX
 


Originally posted by SaturnFX

What if it was found out beyond a shadow of a doubt that Jesus did not resurrect, nor did he do any of the miracles that was claimed he did.

Even IF such a thing could be proven, most would probably just react to it with an extremely firm stance of Denial.



posted on Apr, 2 2013 @ 05:08 PM
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Originally posted by SaturnFX
So, was wondering.

What If... (gotta love what if questions).
What if it was found out beyond a shadow of a doubt that Jesus did not resurrect, nor did he do any of the miracles that was claimed he did.


Unless you are asking hypothetically I am afraid you will keep wondering. Any proof offered to the claims of the 2,000 year old miracles would be seen as heretical and a conspiracy the likes of which would make all the 9/11, moon landing hoax, and JFK conspiracies seem like hair salon gossip...



posted on Apr, 2 2013 @ 05:09 PM
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Originally posted by SaturnFX

Originally posted by adjensen
Why would anyone? Christ's death and resurrection is kinda the core of the whole thing.

And that is the point overall.
The whole thing...what is the thing? is the thing the message or the man.

Neither, that's the theology.

You're essentially asking if anyone would follow a religion whose theology had been shown to be completely inaccurate. It has nothing to do with Christ or his message, really.



posted on Apr, 2 2013 @ 05:13 PM
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I've been saying for years that if you truly understand what it is that Jesus taught, and what Christ truly represents, then whether or not Jesus actually walked the earth as a living, breathing human being is COMPLETELY IRRELEVANT.

I stand by those words...



posted on Apr, 2 2013 @ 05:14 PM
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I might be wrong but I always separate the Christ conciousness from the man/soul Jesus. Christ conciousness have from my point of view always been and will always be whatever religions humans create.

The religions is just the current philosophy on how to reach the light. Some roads are probably easier to follow than others and I am quite fond of the ones that makes sense logically and can be questioned but in the end they are all idols anyway for what really is. To simplistic and not telling the whole story since they do not include all that is including all views of what is.



posted on Apr, 2 2013 @ 05:19 PM
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reply to post by SaturnFX
 


I don't consider his teachings very profound, so if I were religious - there better be miracles!



posted on Apr, 2 2013 @ 05:19 PM
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reply to post by SaturnFX
 


I grew up in an ultra ubber fundamentalist church environment where the resurrection was key. But, as I matured and starting questioning the context of a human blood sacrifice to atone for all the people who couldn't live up to their creator's demands, or the idea of a god sacrificing himself to himself on behalf of his creation, to be less than an ideal concept on which to base my morality. I have come to a state where I don't believe the resurrection story or doctrine, but do follow, to the best of my ability, many of the teachings of Jesus.

Death is no miracle, life is. Too me, his life and teachings are what is of importance. If Jesus truly was sent by "GOD" then the fact that he lived is far more significant than that he died, as all men die, one way of another.

Buddhist have no problem following the teachings of a mere man, I wish Christians could be as down to earth.



posted on Apr, 2 2013 @ 05:27 PM
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Originally posted by jiggerj
reply to post by SaturnFX
 


I don't consider his teachings very profound, so if I were religious - there better be miracles!

I think context is important.
Today its rather low on the bar, but back when he (supposedly)walked, in the area he was at, it was profound and a whole new way of thinking about how one interacted with another.

...so...don't stone people if you caught them cheating? wow...



posted on Apr, 2 2013 @ 05:28 PM
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Originally posted by JamesTheScribe
I've been saying for years that if you truly understand what it is that Jesus taught, and what Christ truly represents, then whether or not Jesus actually walked the earth as a living, breathing human being is COMPLETELY IRRELEVANT.

I stand by those words...


I agree totally from my point of view what Jesus really is teaching. But my view of what Jesus really is teaching is not what most people think he is teaching. When I read the new testament I always end up at two different preachers contridicting each other. One Jesus and one is Paul and I cannot make them into the same message. So I do not take Paul serious at all and see him as either a misguided fool if he wrote all the books it is said he wrote or a skill full manipulator maybe even the real Anti Jesus Preacher.

Now that is not a thing you say to Christians who follow Pauls every word as law without being disliked.



posted on Apr, 2 2013 @ 05:30 PM
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Originally posted by adjensen

Originally posted by SaturnFX

Originally posted by adjensen
Why would anyone? Christ's death and resurrection is kinda the core of the whole thing.

And that is the point overall.
The whole thing...what is the thing? is the thing the message or the man.

Neither, that's the theology.

You're essentially asking if anyone would follow a religion whose theology had been shown to be completely inaccurate. It has nothing to do with Christ or his message, really.


Right...so the Theology would then turn into a Philosophy..and Christ would go from God to Buddha.
Does then the teaches he gave merit greatness in and of itself? Is his teachings even relevant today?
Is his avatar status required for him to be remembered or his words?



posted on Apr, 2 2013 @ 05:41 PM
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Originally posted by SaturnFX
Right...so the Theology would then turn into a Philosophy..and Christ would go from God to Buddha.

No, probably not. If you take away the resurrection and other supernatural factors, Christ's story is not particularly engaging and would be seen as an effort to reform orthodox Judaism of his time. Anyone who still wanted to follow Christ, even in the face of the refutation of Christian theology, would have to convert to Judaism.



posted on Apr, 2 2013 @ 05:41 PM
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reply to post by JamesTheScribe
 


Originally posted by JamesTheScribe

I've been saying for years that if you truly understand what it is that Jesus taught, and what Christ truly represents, then whether or not Jesus actually walked the earth as a living, breathing human being is COMPLETELY IRRELEVANT.

I stand by those words...
Huh?

If you were provided with irrefutable proof that Jesus never even existed, then how could you possibly continue believing that what you have been told, is in fact what 'Jesus taught'?



posted on Apr, 2 2013 @ 05:43 PM
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His resurrection is the entire point, it is THE most important event in Christianity



posted on Apr, 2 2013 @ 05:55 PM
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reply to post by BrokenCircles
 


Because the basic principles are irrefutable, self-evident truths verified by observation of human history...as well as of other religious texts.

If you get all of your "learning" from only any one book, then you are naturally going to be misguided.

The Bible is actually two fundamentally opposing doctrines. The open literal and the hidden symbolic.

I am not a Christian...and neither was "Jesus"...and he would frown upon being worshipped. To worship Christ as a man or a God is completely contrary to what his "teachings" state.

When you understand the mythological influences and sun symbolism, then you are starting to get it...and that's just the tip of the iceberg.

To understand Christ, you have to move past the "Jesus Myth".



posted on Apr, 2 2013 @ 05:56 PM
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Originally posted by OptimusSubprime
His resurrection is the entire point, it is THE most important event in Christianity

More important than what he taught?

But anyhow, how about answering the question posed in ops?

After all, he had 12 guys follow him around not because he resurrected, but because they liked what he said.



posted on Apr, 2 2013 @ 05:58 PM
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Originally posted by SaturnFX

Would you remain a Christian?


Yup.

"The Christian of the future will be a mystic or he will not exist at all" -Karl Rahner

For Christian mystics like me who know the living Christ, the simplistic exoteric theology of the orthodox uninitiated mainstream is for children anyway. Children need to grow up already and get on solid food.

edit on 2-4-2013 by BlueMule because: (no reason given)




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