Winged beings seen by astronauts?

Originally posted by JimOberg

Originally posted by Jchristopher5
If you look at the balance of the testimony, from numerous astronauts, cosmonauts, and other NASA officials, I' don't know how you come away with idea there is not something alien being observed by these men.

I believe you.

You really do not know.

What have you done to widen your knowledge of this subject before swallowing every fable on the UFO sections of the internet?

What do you think, for example, of my 30 year old report on the Cooper UFO stories? Is there any raw evidence in it that you admit may be authentic?

Jim, I am going to take a few hours,to gather my thoughts on your more detailed response above. Tomorrow morning probably. For now, I will take this short response on these questions this evening.

I have not read your report, to be 100 percent honest. So, I can't answer to your evidence. Nor, can I validate your character & motivations, which possibly drive your conclusion. I am not sure that I will commit to reading the report. Time is so limited.I will say maybe right now.

I am in my early 50s and I have only been interested in this subject for three years, although I have been interested in space forever. You have me by leaps and bounds, with respect to such things as time served, and hours of research performed.

Personally, became convinced when I read Leslie Kean's book, that UFOs which cannot be attributed to earth technology, and which were seen doing incredible things, sometimes with unbelievable sized objects. Hovering without a sound. Immediate acceleration without a sonic boom. Why would I not believe astronauts saw these objects?

My interest exposed from there and I have read scores of books and came to my general belief system long ago. I believe that we are in contact, or they with us, with a non-human intelligence. Yeah, I am convinced. Seems plausible to me that astronauts saw them. When multiple ones say they saw these objects, and they are recorded on video, I have no trouble believing it to be factual.

In my country is known that the moon belongs to a dragonian commander (I wont say his name because I dont want to make u feel bad) who moved and invaded earth since 9600bc. Behind the moon there is a darker and a bit smaller than the moon object, called Lilith.

Lilith is ruled by an other guy, known as well (lol) in our ancient books.. If you search ancient books also in India, they asked from Hellenics support in a war, against the people of the Moon. I think recently some videos of destroyed bases on the moon, released or leaked by nasa.

Moon is resided by rebel pliadians, andromedans, Orion, vrills, etc and ofcourse dragonians, all the good guys there...

They love to play with human mind, they love manipulation, so if they saw winged beings, vibrant or light made, it could be projections, mind manipulation.

Originally posted by Ploutonas
In my country is known that the moon belongs to a dragonian commander (I wont say his name because I dont want to make u feel bad) who moved and invaded earth since 9600bc. Behind the moon there is a darker and a bit smaller than the moon object, called Lilith.

Lilith is ruled by an other guy, known as well (lol) in our ancient books.. If you search ancient books also in India, they asked from Hellenics support in a war, against the people of the Moon. I think recently some videos of destroyed bases on the moon, released or leaked by nasa.

Moon is resided by rebel pliadians, andromedans, Orion, vrills, etc and ofcourse dragonians, all the good guys there...

They love to play with human mind, they love manipulation, so if they saw winged beings, vibrant or light made, it could be projections, mind manipulation.

ps: You know that there is 2 hybrid ships in our solar system right? I think not sure, Lilith moved over to Jupiter now... with 118 small war ships ... Since 1975 and more at 1999, ships arrived in Saturn, you may remember many articles stated that strange satellites arrived on Saturn and many claimed that these satellites are UFOS. Since most of dragonian fleet is moved over Jupiter to deploy a defence net. A war is going on and we dont know about it. The good forces, the latest info we have, are 980 war planets (dont except planet size, small spherical shapes, some miles...) 360 visible and the rest in other density. (surely more came and more will come, because they have end this madness).

Ofcourse dont believe the SoHo satellite sun movies and images, of HUGE ufo ships.. all these are fake. The only big ships in our solar system are the moon and Lilith... Its prohibited, a kind of law, that huge enormous motherships, never enter solar systems, well its physics also!! Logic.. if they enter a solar system, the solar system will explode, because of gravitation anomalies. Moon and Lilith are invaders, so a kind of... most wanted.. u know

Thats the reason planets always move into the sun each year (few meters or cm), because these objects reacted negatively to our solar system magnetic fields.. And that allerts and effects the entire systems around us. I think venus is almost dead, or died... Our solar system is in an SOS state.

Please go see a psychiatrist.

reply to post by Xenoglossy


Are u gonna pay the bills? I ve checked ur old posts, ur so interesting, mostly about religius and ufo stuff and mostly u send people to psychologist. U know what organic portals are, you are acting like one in ur messages..? u should search, its a jewish theory, dont worry not my theory... Oh, about the sattelites in Saturn, there is even articles by Nasa about it, astronomers and other scientists... I could give u some links, but there is no point for u. Your goal is to insult others...

Originally posted by Ploutonas
reply to post by Xenoglossy

 

Are u gonna pay the bills?

Sure.

(apparently you believe anything that you read on the internet, so you should believe this as well)

reply to post by Xenoglossy


send me the check and I will.. lol

reply to post by Jchristopher5
Don't bother gathering your thoughts for Jim Oberg! He is not your master...he is a die hard UFO skeptic who has made it his mission at ATS to challenge every NASA UFO Thread.

He is not the UFO supreme court! Just one 'stop sign' I always encounter, who has made it his mission at ATS to disrupt any new debates on UFOs discoverd on official NASA videos ( skeptics here always say that a topic has already been fully discussed & provide links etc....so 'case closed'! )

The so called 'winged beings seen by Russian cosmonauts' is not easily explained away..& that is my point. It is open to interpretation...it is fluid & new opinions...new evidence leading to newer considerations is the whole reason I always revisit ATS! Skeptics are dead ends! Nothing new..ever.

Everybody's comments re: Story Musgrave are all true. Story tells Jim Oberg exactly what he wants to hear...he tells the press what they expect to here...BUT, in my opinion he tells all the rest of us something else entirely! And he has done this using the actual NASA live feed from both space & mission control during shuttle missions.

Story Musgave is the real whistle-blower & he was sure that someone (like me) would record the available live feeds. He was right & he was not alone. There are 2 other persons who also turn up on many of the videos during missions where NASA cameras actually show UFOs appearing. You can check this out at my You Tube channel (user Martyn Stubbs) there are 200 + NASA UFO videos (I discovered) posted there & Story Musgrave is suspiciously heard on most (or the other 2 whistle-blowers)...

On one from the STS-61 mission, during a spacewalk to fix the HST 'focus', senior (& most experienced) astronaut Musgrave comments to his 2 fellow spacewalkers (on the shuttle's most important & closely watched mission to date) that he sees something that he does not recognize, & he goes out of his way to point it out to everyone...asking if others see it, only to be "schooled" by the others that he is looking at VENUS!!!. His answer is

"you mean it moves that fast"....amazing! ..NASA's #1 superstar asks "is that a satellite down there...look..it's coming right at us..do you guys see it...." he is told "no Story ...that is Venus" he says "you mean it moves that fast"...& is told yes...isn't it amazing! .....video wise you only see the 3 astronauts & the Hubble.

The NASA videos have so many conversations just like this & you hear Story Musgrave most times

On one spacewalk I found while I am preparing for my upcoming 2013 video releases for You Tube, Story in mission control is talking to an astronaut who seems to be ignoring him...when the astronaut suddenly blurts out 'sorry Story, I was not paying attention...there are so many things swimming around out hear'...& Musgrave then says ..'we know & I know...'

On mission STS-63, again it is Musgrave who keeps insisting that we search for the MIR space station. (on the final day before the K-band was shut down). Then Story blurts out that the many 'objects' zooming around & visible on the (live) NASA camera were Meteors...shooting stars!!! (really? at 200 miles up!)

Jim Oberg has since (to his credit) even admitted on an ATS reply to a post of mine, regarding this video that..YES...the astronauts were wrong!!
Musgrave then prolongs the visual search for MIR & continues to comment on which 'pulsating' & moving object might be MIR. In the end he declares that every pulsating object he had us follow (there were lots) was not MIR after all...so what were they? But he held fast on the shooting stars!

We all know he is super smart & knows full well that these objects could never be shooting stars...nor the MIR...nor Venus!!! He is sending us a message loud & clear. On STS-80 with UFOs shooting off suddenly (like STS-48), Story asks, as the video is put out for the world to see..."is the control room on a break?" (translation 'is anybody seeing this') & mission control says "we're all here Story & we are all watching" !!!!!!!

It is interesting to note, that last time I checked... there was nothing written in the STS-63 daily flight log (on line) about this event at all. If I had not taped it.. would anyone know this happened?

So Story Musgrave is now forever on the right side of history, while keeping his status high with Oberg & NASA in retirement bliss! GOOD FOR HIM. I would not have discovered this wealth of NASA UFO video if not for his whisle-blowing efforts, mission after mission. I also note that NASA started to censor the feeds from missions after Story retired & NASA's methods for censoring all 'mission video' has been well documented by the late Jeff Challender at his Project PROVE web site.

Originally posted by buzzEmiller
So Story Musgrave is now forever on the right side of history, while keeping his status high with Oberg & NASA in retirement bliss! GOOD FOR HIM. I would not have discovered this wealth of NASA UFO video if not for his whisle-blowing efforts, mission after mission. I also note that NASA started to censor the feeds from missions after Story retired & NASA's methods for censoring all 'mission video' has been well documented by the late Jeff Challender at his Project PROVE web site.

Your post made me look up Story Musgrave.

I didn't really expect anything useful from this thread anymore. Glad that you proved me wrong.

One thing is for sure: some advanced technology has been operating in earth atmosfere for decades (on a documentend way at least).
There is not a chance that both the USA or the USSR could already have that kind of stuff in the forties/fifties.

We can only speculate about the origins of those craft. They could be from here (earth), from our on solar system/universe or.... elsewhere! I mean they can come from many places not just one.

When I say elsewhere I consider the possibility of being from a different time (not only a different location). They could be time travellers (humans or post-humans). Some of those craft could even come from an post-human civilization within our galaxy.

And if we consider the possibility of this reality (as we know it), being just a kind of extremely advanced simulation then... those craft may not be a material object at all!
As Hynek said some of those craft aren´t just nuts and bolts!

Meaningless333

Originally posted by buzzEmiller
reply to post by Jchristopher5

 

Don't bother gathering your thoughts for Jim Oberg! He is not your master...he is a die hard UFO skeptic who has made it his mission at ATS to challenge every NASA UFO Thread.

Always good to hear a post from Martyn, he's a legend of the youtube ufo service. Glad to find him still kicking around our common plane of existence.

One of these years he may even provide the date/time of alleged astronaut sightings and conversations. Note how he rarely has ever done so, and again this time, absolutely refuses to provide such checkable clues.

I've always wondered why.

As long as he gets away with withholding such crucial verification information, why should he stop?

I'll send this note off to Dr. Musgrave for his own amusement. Martyn's claimes about Musgrave's experiences and actions and thoughts have, as you all can verify, no verifiable evidence -- just Martyn's imagination.

Musgrave's view of the absence of any ETI indications on space missions, his own and all those of his colleagues he's talked to, is clearly spelled out in verifiable on-the-record comments, not in fantastical fables [never actually recorded anywhere] from Martyn, Clark McClelland, Jim Marrs, and the like.

Originally posted by buzzEmiller
reply to post by Jchristopher5
.....
On mission STS-63, again it is Musgrave who keeps insisting that we search for the MIR space station. (on the final day before the K-band was shut down). Then Story blurts out that the many 'objects' zooming around & visible on the (live) NASA camera were Meteors...shooting stars!!! (really? at 200 miles up!)

Jim Oberg has since (to his credit) even admitted on an ATS reply to a post of mine, regarding this video that..YES...the astronauts were wrong!!

As I recall, the NASA PAO commentator called the streaks meteors, not Musgrave. But we need to double check this -- where's the video of the sequence, please?

reply to post by JimOberg


I take it Deke Slayton's account of his personal sighting remains undisputed.
At least there's no doubt about what he said.

www.youtube.com...

Originally posted by xpoq47
reply to post by JimOberg

 

I take it Deke Slayton's account of his personal sighting remains undisputed.
At least there's no doubt about what he said.

There's no doubt about what he said, that's checkable. As to whether it was ever investigated, Blue Book or otherwise, that is simply unknown. If it had been, and ufo experts knew about it and any negative results, past track records suggest they would deliberately withhold that information -- as they have consistently done for other 'astronaut ufo stories'. It is a pattern of deception by those who pretend to appeal for 'full disclosure;.it is a pattern that has been rewarded by mass misinforming of their target audience, you guys.

Originally posted by buzzEmiller
reply to post by Jchristopher5
....The so called 'winged beings seen by Russian cosmonauts' is not easily explained away..& that is my point. It is open to interpretation...it is fluid & new opinions...new evidence leading to newer considerations is the whole reason I always revisit ATS! Skeptics are dead ends! Nothing new..ever.

Thanks for steering back to the OP's original material. As far as I can make out from posts here, nobody has any evidence this actually ever happened. There are a lot of memoriies of once seeing it on some TV show, but apparently the vast youtube archives failed to capture the show, so there's nothing for any reluctant researcher to actually look at himself.

Oh, and one published article -- in the 'Weekly World News'. Anybody accepting that as evidence -- please raise your hand.

Nothing else new, or old, or in between. Just memories.

reply to post by Xenoglossy


Sorry for the one liner...but...what?!?.do you really believe that?

Originally posted by Pauligirl

Originally posted by DazDaKing


The other case is of course that the astronauts are all lying either actively or inactively. Either they had a massive group hallucination (twice!) of which there isn't much if any supporting scientific evidence for OR they are all lying for a cause we can't understand from the information handed to us. Though this raises the question of why the astronauts would risk jeopardizing their integrity by making such claims. Perhaps it was an attempt to scare the USA in some way?

Or maybe it just didn't happen and a "newspaper" was using the astronauts' names to sell a story.

If that is the case then we would have independent reports of each astronaut denying the claims publicly so they don't look like nutters - surely? I can only find reports of one of the original astronauts refuting he saw an alien, and that was after he was promoted to a higher position.

Originally posted by DazDaKing

Or maybe it just didn't happen and a "newspaper" was using the astronauts' names to sell a story.

If that is the case then we would have independent reports of each astronaut denying the claims publicly so they don't look like nutters - surely? I can only find reports of one of the original astronauts refuting he saw an alien, and that was after he was promoted to a higher position.

Stop calling me 'Shirley'.

Seriously -- who are you to determine what astronauts should do about crackpot ravings? Maybe ignoring it is the most practical thing to do?

Originally posted by DazDaKing
..... I can only find reports of one of the original astronauts refuting he saw an alien, and that was after he was promoted to a higher position.

Look harder, and look smarter. Find Musgrave's denial, Tom Jones' denial, Frank Borman's denial, Buzz Aldrin's denial, Mario Runco's denial, Cady Coleman's denial, Donald Ratsch's retraction of the 'we have alien ship in sight' hoax, Pete Conrad's denial, the STS-48 and STS-75 crews' denials, on and on and on.

It might just be that your inability to find something in the ufo files of the internet has very little to do with what actually exists in the real world. Please consider that possibility.

Originally posted by DazDaKing
If that is the case then we would have independent reports of each astronaut denying the claims publicly so they don't look like nutters - surely? I can only find reports of one of the original astronauts refuting he saw an alien, and that was after he was promoted to a higher position.

Had it been a reputable source, I'd probably agree with you. But since it was Weekly World News, it's not the astronauts that look like nutters, just the people repeating the story.

Originally posted by JimOberg

Originally posted by DazDaKing

Or maybe it just didn't happen and a "newspaper" was using the astronauts' names to sell a story.

If that is the case then we would have independent reports of each astronaut denying the claims publicly so they don't look like nutters - surely? I can only find reports of one of the original astronauts refuting he saw an alien, and that was after he was promoted to a higher position.

Stop calling me 'Shirley'.

Seriously -- who are you to determine what astronauts should do about crackpot ravings? Maybe ignoring it is the most practical thing to do?

Look harder, and look smarter. Find Musgrave's denial, Tom Jones' denial, Frank Borman's denial, Buzz Aldrin's denial, Mario Runco's denial, Cady Coleman's denial, Donald Ratsch's retraction of the 'we have alien ship in sight' hoax, Pete Conrad's denial, the STS-48 and STS-75 crews' denials, on and on and on.

It might just be that your inability to find something in the ufo files of the internet has very little to do with what actually exists in the real world. Please consider that possibility. )