China places military on highest alert.

Originally posted by Hopechest

Originally posted by Panic2k11
reply to post by Wrabbit2000

 

China will never allow a US presence so near their boarder even in Afghanistan we clearly saw the US pussy footing and avoid to go beyond a UN/NATO intervention and delegate as much as it could to the Afghan regime that is clearly not a puppet of the US (at least not even similar to the Iraq as it was in the beginning as to get the signatures for the US companies to rebuild it and ultimately fleece the US citizens). In Afghanistan China could play it lose as it had internal problems already boiling due to Muslim minority revolts. China has not forgotten the past that includes the "smart" bombing of its embassy in Serbia.

Having a technologically capable "enemy" (a democratic united Korea, akin to a new Japan in regards to US interventionism at its boarder is not in the plans), regardless of how crazy they think NK is. North Korea was a creation of the Soviets (not China).

That is a point many people do not know about. Stalin instituted that regime, built it up, and funded it. North Korea couldn't invade the South until Stalin gave them permission.

Many people also don't know that China and Russia/Soviet Union have almost constantly been fighting. They have an immense hate for each other and when Stalin built up NK, China did not like it and still resents that little country. However, they did intervene on NK's behalf when the Soviet Union pulled support after Stalin's death and it was clear the US forces were going to overrun the North.

China, faced with the option of having the US, who they were unfriendly with at this time, backed up to their country, or NK, a Stalin puppet regime, they chose to side with NK. They have ever since had a tenuous relationship with that country.

And all this time I thought China and Russia were holding hands and WW3 would come down to us and our allies against China, Russia, and Iran! You learn something new every day around here!

Well i said it all last week and got nothing but laughed at so i guess this is in order: lol
have fun ya'll

reply to post by all2human


There's a big difference between being loyal and being royally stupid. China's telling best Korea to drop it, but sadly best Korea is not listening.

reply to post by wondermost

I think when so many nations see "The enemy of my enemy is my friend" as perfectly reasonable foreign policy basis, it's hard to know who is friends with who and how deeply.

Russia and China have had border fights, that's definitely true. Right through cold war years too. The question is, would they work together against us? Economically, they already do. Militarily? Hmmm... That would be a super-leap ...or a tragic strategic surprise for the US.

reply to post by PLAYERONE01


I can promise you that I was not laughing at you last week. I've thought to myself for some time now that there was no way that with this level of threats coming out of N. Korea that it would all be just ignored and forgotten about.

Its one thing to threaten to strike targets inside South Korea, it is quite another to threaten to nuke the worlds top superpower. Now we have China on some sort of a highest level alert. No matter what it is, this has turned quite serious and I think we should all do a little praying over the course of the next few days,

I am not a religious zealot, but there are no athiests in a foxhole.

America would need a drone war if the SHTF because the Iraq and Afghan Vets are dropping like flies. Suicides are the only way out for these tortured souls.

Just wondering if the alleged mobilization of chinese military personnel may also have something to do with capturing Japanese islands it has long coveted? When SHTF, China could go in whilst all eyes are eleswhere...

I have read economic forecasts that the boom in China will grind to a halt because of over-development, maybe that could also be another factor?

I don't know...

Any constructive opinions to this would be highly valued

reply to post by penninja


I agree that as you state "ALL moving in the direction of some kind of socialist/Capitalist hybrid system we obviously came to agree upon" was the plan but people (not nations) do not like uniformity and acculturation, that concept is a bit strange to a US citizen since the Federal state has since the civil war worked to create an hegemony from coast to coast but even there in some regards (especial those dependent on human nature) it has failed, Americans are too individualists and that individualism has been exacerbated by the political setup and propaganda to make the US a normalized state in that regard the EU is more closely nit (if you exclude the UK and the case of language protectionism, that has more to do with commercial interests today than anything else, even if it is sold as a cultural protection, the more extreme cases of that are France and Germany and to a lesser degree Spain).

The soviet control of Russia was broken up exactly because the orbiting states resisted acculturation, for historical reasons (Like Poland vs Russia and even Germany) to a deep entrenched hate that resides in a nation history like Ukraine vs Russia (or to a less degree the UK vs the French and even less French vs Germany) similar to to the feeling in ex-Confederated states vs the Union, this is due to to how state education evolved to indoctrinates populations to keep loyalty (patriotism) and enable the citizens to have a common shared ground against external influence, cultural glue as to foster tribe identity.

So I would agree that the 1% may in large part think that they will get it as you say but the seeds for failure have been long planted and grown into not easily uprooted trees. If I was in the planning I would have started in Asia where individualism is less culturally important but since the movement seems directed from the US outward it will take a long time to every be concluded before something large (war) will derail it utterly, and it will be ultimately a self inflicted defeat...

No plan survives confrontation with reality but in this case I do not think "they" will be able to adapt it into anything that works, and if it does it will be an imposed system that will benefit only the 1% and end in a larger revolution.

The Chinese are moving things because the Americans are. Would you accept the Chinese Navy off Hawaii? No, so the Chinese are just being cautious of the US not NK in my opinion.

Originally posted by xquietonex

Originally posted by penninja
reply to post by xquietonex

 

yeah and in these early days things of this nature happened...

and over decades America and Russia and England, France and China....spent much time in discussion as to how to see this never happened again...

The results of these discussions you see now as the world falls into regions and nations out of line fall one by one.... NK obviously being next.

That a "plan" is coming into effect over the last decade shld be obvious... after all lol... we had bases in Kazakhstan? Chinese ship design looking very familiar, America semi throwing Israel under the bus China doing the same to NK... they sanctioned the sanctions after all.... so much money between us and China with our troops fighting on their borders in the West no?

So much talk about how China "cares" if the US has a presence? Meanwhile they have been handing us money for all intents and purposes the whole time we have been on their border in Afghanistan

Serious man? These events go back to like 2002. How bout the one where one of Russia's early warning satellites caught some 'sun glint' that gave a warning of a massive first-strike? Again, one guy's judgment call prevented a retaliatory counterattack.

Or when Yeltsin had to make a call on whether a US weather satellite launched by NOAA was a decapitation attempt (some screw-up prevented the Russians from getting the notification). Yeltsin had less than 10 minutes for a decision again.

Early days indeed...

Sorry for the derail OP

What your referring to in 2002 was actually a meteor that exploded over the Mediterranean during a standoff between Pakistan and India and the explosion was Hiroshima sized in nature... it was Hypothesized that IF it had hit 4 hrs earlier it would have triggered a nuclear war between Pakistan and India under the circumstances...

Your other reference is 95... and I quote

" Following the incident, notification and disclosure protocols were re-evaluated and redesigned." Wikipedia

Both your references perfectly illustrate my point

with every incident... discussion commences between our nations...

The potential for the India Pakistan situation absolutely accelerated AGREEMENT among the worlds super powers that NO ONE ELSE be allowed to enter the club...

The other incident defines how closely linked our systems actually now are... the UN and it's five "security council members" spend FAR more time in discussion and agreement on how to bring the rest of the world in line under THEM than they do debating each other...

What nations need to go.... who can and can not be "allowed" to posses certain technologies....

We are almost one system at this point...

GLOBALISM

The only endangered nations are those that wont fall in line or join in and at the TOP of every Nation involved list of concerns are those who could throw this system into chaos...

In the Modern World... our debates.... who gets the Gas fields off Japan, which "proxy" States can be trusted with what.... these things are debated.... but in the end, any nation that tries to bump the status quo like NK is doing now or Israel and Iran threaten to will be thrown under the bus...

Your dealing with a world in which China (while making statements) at the UN against it.... basically allowed the US to walk through most of the Middle East....

The world dynamic is GLOBALIZATION.... Oil to India and China to prop the world economy to modernize leaves the rest of the world while crying crocodile tears behind The destruction of entire nations to assure it flows...

The word of the day is GLOBAL.... none of these paradigms from the last Korean war exist

Realistically "Democracy" "Communism" no longer even exist

UN, Global Banking Systems.... Free Market Socialism.... China is IN, America is IN, Russia is IN, Europe is IN...

We will NEVER fight each other. NK is going under the bus to almost a 99% Guarantee... they wont leave behind pure Communism, they wont leave behind inherited power nor enter the global Banking system

I do NOT say this from the POV of "The Banks and corporations are taking over the world.... oh noes... global space Jews..." LOL

I Like it... to be honest

Meh....

My Money is on China Taking out NK from behind if they make a first move.... Global Government is coming, I don't think a nation like China rising in wealth cares much about where the USA is... we are after all FOR HIRE and they have all the money.

Originally posted by Panic2k11
reply to post by penninja

 

I agree that as you state "ALL moving in the direction of some kind of socialist/Capitalist hybrid system we obviously came to agree upon" was the plan but people (not nations) do not like uniformity and acculturation, that concept is a bit strange to a US citizen since the Federal state has since the civil war worked to create an hegemony from coast to coast but even there in some regards (especial those dependent on human nature) it has failed, Americans are too individualists and that individualism has been exacerbated by the political setup and propaganda to make the US a normalized state in that regard the EU is more closely nit (if you exclude the UK and the case of language protectionism, that has more to do with commercial interests today than anything else, even if it is sold as a cultural protection, the more extreme cases of that are France and Germany and to a lesser degree Spain).

The soviet control of Russia was broken up exactly because the orbiting states resisted acculturation, for historical reasons (Like Poland vs Russia and even Germany) to a deep entrenched hate that resides in a nation history like Ukraine vs Russia (or to a less degree the UK vs the French and even less French vs Germany) similar to to the feeling in ex-Confederated states vs the Union, this is due to to how state education evolved to indoctrinates populations to keep loyalty (patriotism) and enable the citizens to have a common shared ground against external influence, cultural glue as to foster tribe identity.

So I would agree that the 1% may in large part think that they will get it as you say but the seeds for failure have been long planted and grown into not easily uprooted trees. If I was in the planning I would have started in Asia where individualism is less culturally important but since the movement seems directed from the US outward it will take a long time to every be concluded before something large (war) will derail it utterly, and it will be ultimately a self inflicted defeat...

No plan survives confrontation with reality but in this case I do not think "they" will be able to adapt it into anything that works, and if it does it will be an imposed system that will benefit only the 1% and end in a larger revolution.

edit on 2-4-2013 by Panic2k11 because: (no reason given)

edit on 2-4-2013 by Panic2k11 because: (no reason given)

And I agree with everything you are saying....

Hence the reason America has the "Drones" starting to fly and anti gun legislation and all the rest

I have to throw my hat in here and say.... I am WITH the program, I think realistically in Europe and China and Russia the people as a whole are bit less retarded on some levels than many Americans... we are liable to be the People who ruin everything and realistically none of it is "Bad" Our Dogmatic obsession with the Constitution... our Religious beliefs that ANY "Global anything" that comes along has some Antichrist figure behind it... are mostly as sane as Islam is... (and well look at what we are being given the $$$$ to do to them over there to stop that nonsense)

What are the reasons Americans want a civil war? IMHO they are mostly emotional/irrational/senseless Dogma vs necessity common sense... Health care, higher taxes, equalization of income between nations, population control....

people in the States go to extremes... "they will wipe us out" no.... it's just harder unless your useful which.... isn't so bad....

Debate.... Is where we are going BAD? eh.... hard maybe....

But without healthcare the jerk on the subway might give me some plague... money is useless then eh? Americans have NEVER needed guns to defend against the gov.... we DO shoot each other to death and it's pointless..... Freedom of Religion.... got us Scientology

and our Wars..... Can we have a Globe without...... Giving Hugo Cancer? Or taking down Saddam or maybe now Un? No, not really.....

The methods may be Ugly... but me thinks opposing it is wrong.... the real opposition is from Dogma not sense.... The thought that some DEVIL is behind it undermines our society and makes us as retarded as the people we have been bombing for a decade for the same reasons.

'U.S. deploys warship off South Korea amid soaring tensions on peninsula'

news.yahoo.com...

I've said this before, but I'll say it again:

NK is all about POSTURE and POSTURING. They've been publicly flexing their meagre muscles for decades, if not centuries. Even China can see how silly they are being.

Do not worry people. This will not escalate into fully blown war with the East.

reply to post by Autocrat14


It's different this time.
This is not the sames as the posturing by the father and grandfather.

Un is like a kid with new toys, and he wants to play with them.
This kid is a bully with a god complex.
His whole life he has been fed the propaganda that his country is power and to be feared. He is delusional, and really believes that he can do whatever he wants... and win.

Add to that the regime that is "managing" him, and it is an extremely dangerous situation.
He does not have the common sense to do anything other than believe the propaganda his own generals feed him.
His country has nothing to lose.
Their economy is a disaster, their people are starving, and they have no reason to sit back and maintain the status quo.
And their egos are too big to back down to establish a government that plays nice with the rest of the world.

China is going to defend them. There is no way they are going to allow SK to expand north. They will not allow the US to have a strong foothold right next door. That won't happen. A war will weaken the US. China is close to owning the US now. After a war, they will have control over us and our technology. That is what they want. They want control of the world, the money and technology.

Originally posted by BlueAjah
reply to post by Autocrat14

 

It's different this time.
This is not the sames as the posturing by the father and grandfather.

Un is like a kid with new toys, and he wants to play with them.
This kid is a bully with a god complex.
His whole life he has been fed the propaganda that his country is power and to be feared. He is delusional, and really believes that he can do whatever he wants... and win.

Add to that the regime that is "managing" him, and it is an extremely dangerous situation.
He does not have the common sense to do anything other than believe the propaganda his own generals feed him.
His country has nothing to lose.
Their economy is a disaster, their people are starving, and they have no reason to sit back and maintain the status quo.
And their egos are too big to back down to establish a government that plays nice with the rest of the world.

China is going to defend them. There is no way they are going to allow SK to expand north. They will not allow the US to have a strong foothold right next door. That won't happen. A war will weaken the US. China is close to owning the US now. After a war, they will have control over us and our technology. That is what they want. They want control of the world, the money and technology.

I agree 100% with the reality that the NK situation is real this time, the reality is 27-28 years old is a time period where the brain hasn't fully developed yet and no world leader should be this age, this KID is dangerous.

I do however disagree fully and completely with all this hubub about China.... Demonization, assumptions of actually behind the scenes relations wit the USA

The Chinese are sane, they play ball, they know the stakes, they make a lot of money off us, SK is a good neighbor with or without the US there....

Look, we'd like to own Mexico lol..... we aren't going to blast our neighbor over minor bs...we trade there is money involved we live with bs we don't like....

China is no different, sure it would be nice to get those Japanese islands.... sure influence over America in the Koreas is good...

But in the meantime.... there's money to be lost and crap to be gained by war....

and Americas presence? Does it even MATTER?

What will we do invade 1.5 Billion people by foot because we have a foothold? Never... Impossible

Any war with the USA is about a handful of Nukes coming off a sub at Chinas coast... and then Chinas a wasteland maybe so is much of America... a Lot of HYPE that the Chinese are soooooo concerned about a US "foothold" it's meaningless... our whole Army couldn't hold one province for very long in manpower effort... even with a draft it's moronic... Our Missiles are miles off the coast either way.... the ones that matter at least.

NK was a buffer in the 50's....

Now it's a dangerous unpredictable pain in the chinese tuchas

I hate to drop a link to my own thread but I did mention about China making moves against DPRK….

This is the start.

NATO Cosmic Top Secret- An ATS Exclusive on the NATO Plans for North Korea

Originally posted by wondermost
reply to post by Destinyone

 

I can see that. They haven't got the room for refugees in their country. I guess only time will tell at this point.

Sure they do...they can house them in all those empty cities that they've been building. :/

reply to post by OtherSideOfTheCoin

dude really ??
that sounds/reads like the worst re-hash of cold war propaganda that should have been left in the trash bin.

nuke'em all eh ??
what a ridiculous proposal.

MAD didn't work as intended then, why would it now ??????
NATO - Never Again Trust Officials !!!!

My dad said years ago there was going to be trouble over there some day and it was going to go of with a big bang for us all.

He's been dead 33yrs :/