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Originally posted by Hopechest
Originally posted by Panic2k11
reply to post by Wrabbit2000
China will never allow a US presence so near their boarder even in Afghanistan we clearly saw the US pussy footing and avoid to go beyond a UN/NATO intervention and delegate as much as it could to the Afghan regime that is clearly not a puppet of the US (at least not even similar to the Iraq as it was in the beginning as to get the signatures for the US companies to rebuild it and ultimately fleece the US citizens). In Afghanistan China could play it lose as it had internal problems already boiling due to Muslim minority revolts. China has not forgotten the past that includes the "smart" bombing of its embassy in Serbia.
Having a technologically capable "enemy" (a democratic united Korea, akin to a new Japan in regards to US interventionism at its boarder is not in the plans), regardless of how crazy they think NK is. North Korea was a creation of the Soviets (not China).
That is a point many people do not know about. Stalin instituted that regime, built it up, and funded it. North Korea couldn't invade the South until Stalin gave them permission.
Many people also don't know that China and Russia/Soviet Union have almost constantly been fighting. They have an immense hate for each other and when Stalin built up NK, China did not like it and still resents that little country. However, they did intervene on NK's behalf when the Soviet Union pulled support after Stalin's death and it was clear the US forces were going to overrun the North.
China, faced with the option of having the US, who they were unfriendly with at this time, backed up to their country, or NK, a Stalin puppet regime, they chose to side with NK. They have ever since had a tenuous relationship with that country.
Originally posted by xquietonex
Originally posted by penninja
reply to post by xquietonex
yeah and in these early days things of this nature happened...
and over decades America and Russia and England, France and China....spent much time in discussion as to how to see this never happened again...
The results of these discussions you see now as the world falls into regions and nations out of line fall one by one.... NK obviously being next.
That a "plan" is coming into effect over the last decade shld be obvious... after all lol... we had bases in Kazakhstan? Chinese ship design looking very familiar, America semi throwing Israel under the bus China doing the same to NK... they sanctioned the sanctions after all.... so much money between us and China with our troops fighting on their borders in the West no?
So much talk about how China "cares" if the US has a presence? Meanwhile they have been handing us money for all intents and purposes the whole time we have been on their border in Afghanistan
Serious man? These events go back to like 2002. How bout the one where one of Russia's early warning satellites caught some 'sun glint' that gave a warning of a massive first-strike? Again, one guy's judgment call prevented a retaliatory counterattack.
Or when Yeltsin had to make a call on whether a US weather satellite launched by NOAA was a decapitation attempt (some screw-up prevented the Russians from getting the notification). Yeltsin had less than 10 minutes for a decision again.
Early days indeed...
Sorry for the derail OP
Originally posted by Panic2k11
reply to post by penninja
I agree that as you state "ALL moving in the direction of some kind of socialist/Capitalist hybrid system we obviously came to agree upon" was the plan but people (not nations) do not like uniformity and acculturation, that concept is a bit strange to a US citizen since the Federal state has since the civil war worked to create an hegemony from coast to coast but even there in some regards (especial those dependent on human nature) it has failed, Americans are too individualists and that individualism has been exacerbated by the political setup and propaganda to make the US a normalized state in that regard the EU is more closely nit (if you exclude the UK and the case of language protectionism, that has more to do with commercial interests today than anything else, even if it is sold as a cultural protection, the more extreme cases of that are France and Germany and to a lesser degree Spain).
The soviet control of Russia was broken up exactly because the orbiting states resisted acculturation, for historical reasons (Like Poland vs Russia and even Germany) to a deep entrenched hate that resides in a nation history like Ukraine vs Russia (or to a less degree the UK vs the French and even less French vs Germany) similar to to the feeling in ex-Confederated states vs the Union, this is due to to how state education evolved to indoctrinates populations to keep loyalty (patriotism) and enable the citizens to have a common shared ground against external influence, cultural glue as to foster tribe identity.
So I would agree that the 1% may in large part think that they will get it as you say but the seeds for failure have been long planted and grown into not easily uprooted trees. If I was in the planning I would have started in Asia where individualism is less culturally important but since the movement seems directed from the US outward it will take a long time to every be concluded before something large (war) will derail it utterly, and it will be ultimately a self inflicted defeat...
No plan survives confrontation with reality but in this case I do not think "they" will be able to adapt it into anything that works, and if it does it will be an imposed system that will benefit only the 1% and end in a larger revolution.
edit on 2-4-2013 by Panic2k11 because: (no reason given)edit on 2-4-2013 by Panic2k11 because: (no reason given)
Originally posted by BlueAjah
reply to post by Autocrat14
It's different this time.
This is not the sames as the posturing by the father and grandfather.
Un is like a kid with new toys, and he wants to play with them.
This kid is a bully with a god complex.
His whole life he has been fed the propaganda that his country is power and to be feared. He is delusional, and really believes that he can do whatever he wants... and win.
Add to that the regime that is "managing" him, and it is an extremely dangerous situation.
He does not have the common sense to do anything other than believe the propaganda his own generals feed him.
His country has nothing to lose.
Their economy is a disaster, their people are starving, and they have no reason to sit back and maintain the status quo.
And their egos are too big to back down to establish a government that plays nice with the rest of the world.
China is going to defend them. There is no way they are going to allow SK to expand north. They will not allow the US to have a strong foothold right next door. That won't happen. A war will weaken the US. China is close to owning the US now. After a war, they will have control over us and our technology. That is what they want. They want control of the world, the money and technology.
Originally posted by wondermost
reply to post by Destinyone
I can see that. They haven't got the room for refugees in their country. I guess only time will tell at this point.