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Shtf fuel choice's

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posted on Apr, 1 2013 @ 04:55 PM
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reply to post by neo96
 


What if i don't have a walmart,auto parts store,drain cleaner or youtube videos??

Just being the devil's advocate.
Lets make this a learning thread...cut me some slack.


I am actually very interested in the moonshine still though.





posted on Apr, 1 2013 @ 05:01 PM
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reply to post by DrumsRfun
 





What if i don't have a walmart,auto parts store,drain cleaner or youtube videos??


Use the same reasoning behind that forrest.




Lets make this a learning thread...cut me some slack.


Go make one as this thread about about fuel choices



posted on Apr, 1 2013 @ 05:22 PM
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reply to post by neo96
 


This is the survival forum....show me your survival skills. (not hypothetical what if stuff that you or anyone else has actually NOT done in real life)

If you had nothing...where will you get fuel??

If you and others who have talked,can give me an idea on how to make fuel...then do it...i already asked.
Teach me....don't tell me and don't talk the poopie...I do this for real in real life and am hoping to be taught something.
Don't get butthurt...I only want to learn something.
Teach me.



posted on Apr, 1 2013 @ 05:38 PM
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reply to post by DrumsRfun
 





This is the survival forum....show me your survival skills. (not hypothetical what if stuff that you or anyone else has actually NOT done in real life)


Not a dog, and I don't do tricks




If you had nothing...where will you get fuel??


Such an asinine question after the wood comments Gee if someone did not have any wood where do they get it?




Teach me.


Pretty hard to teach humility



www.abovetopsecret.com...


This is the topic Shft fuel choice's.




Yes I am aware that people should ween them off power all together in a shtf, but there are levels of shtf most people will experience some type of event in their lives be it tornados,hurricanes,etc all the way up to the end of the world as we know it.


Altho some people think that means going all Grizzle Adams.
edit on 1-4-2013 by neo96 because: (no reason given)



posted on Apr, 1 2013 @ 05:45 PM
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There are thousands of gallons of highly refined mineral oil to be found locally...

About 25 feet up.



posted on Apr, 1 2013 @ 05:49 PM
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After Hurricane Sandy and there was No More Gasoline Diesel was Plentiful No line for that.



posted on Apr, 1 2013 @ 06:26 PM
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Bah, easy question OP...

Fuel of choice: 190 proof homebrew.

No ifs, ands, or buts about it in my mind.

A never-ending supply, easily made, self-sustainable. Homebrew can be made out of damn near anything if you're not drinking it.



Small engines are easy to convert with just a little tweaking of the carb (if needed at all).

And believe it or not, most cars will also run on pure alcohol without the need for any of these stupid "conversion kits". Vehicles with carburetors might need a bit of tweaking to run smooth, and most (not all but most) computerized vehicles automatically self-adjust to the octane levels.

The trick is to start with a 50/50 mix of gas and alcohol, and working your way down until your running on pure alcohol alone. Of course you want to start with a very small engine first, learning the process and various check points, before working your way up to a full-sized vehicle.

It's a little more involved than what I've listed out, but you get the idea.

One of many things TPTB don't want the average citizen to know.



posted on Apr, 1 2013 @ 07:51 PM
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reply to post by METACOMET
 

Explain please...all I have are power lines...with transformers.....OH WAIT!
Transformer oil sounds like something optimus prime would pour over his Fruity Pebbles.



posted on Apr, 1 2013 @ 10:00 PM
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I will stick to the fuel degradation aspect.

The primary reason diesel fuel degrades is oxidation, and bacterial growth. Same with kerosene.
Oxidation comes from the air in the top of the tank. The bacterial growth also needs that air in the top of the tank. And yes there is bacteria that live off of oil.

To stop that degradation, you need to minimize the air in that container. If it is a large tank, It should be filled all the way to the top, where you have minimum surface area exposed to the air. Smaller containers should be sealed air tight with a minimum amount of air in them when they are sealed.

Professional installations where they have countless thousands of gallons of diesel on long term storage will use dry nitrogen to pressurize the top of the tanks. The N supply is ran through a regulator that reduces it to just above atmospheric pressure so that it keeps the air driven out of the tanks. As the fuel warms up, and expands, the N is purged out the overpressure port. When it cools down and shrinks, the volume is made up by more dry nitrogen.

Gasoline decomposition in the old days was mainly through oxidation and evaporation. With evaporation, the lighter constituents evaporate first. That leaves you with a less volatile fuel that will not burn in a cold engine. The engine has to be hot to vaporize it to the point it will run. And the engine will knock from the low octane. With 10% ethanol gas, the new way is via water contamination. The ethanol combines with water in the air and separates out of the gasoline. To reduce the oxidation and ethanol separation methods of decomposition, you want to do the same thing you do with diesel, and minimize air contact area at the top of the fuel container, and keep all water out of the container.

To reduce the octane reduction and volatility reduction from evaporation, you need to have a sealed leak free container that can handle the pressure buildup of the vapors without venting, even during the hottest days.

Under ideal conditions the diesel/kerosene will store almost indefinitely. Gasoline should be viable several years, if not decades.

Propane is basically indefinite life because, by the nature of the system, there is no air above the fuel, and there are no additives to separate. The only problem that can happen with LP is if you consume it at a really slow rate. The more volatile constituents of the fuel will vaporize first and be used. The heavier constituents (butane) will be the last to vaporize. It basically distills it’s self. So you could end up in a condition where you have 20% of a tank left, but you have no gas pressure because it’s below 32F and all you have left in your tank is butane.

If you are running anything as large as a generator, then distillation of the LP in the tank should not be a problem.


A side note.
If you are storing kerosene, or lamp oil in plastic containers, do not have the containers setting where sun can shine on them. I have seen people complaining on the internet about the plastic containers falling apart after several years. The reason why is the UV light destroys the plastic. If they put the containers in a dark place, the plastic container will be flexible and resilient a 100 years from now.

UV light is also what causes the fuel lines on small gas powered equipment to turn hard and fall apart. Keep your equipment stored in a dark place to keep the UV light damage down to a minimum.



posted on Apr, 1 2013 @ 10:04 PM
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biodiesal easy to make .. not have to worry over storing large quantities .. solar for power quieter and much more efficient than generators ..



posted on Apr, 1 2013 @ 10:21 PM
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Originally posted by CranialSponge
Bah, easy question OP...

Fuel of choice: 190 proof homebrew.

No ifs, ands, or buts about it in my mind.

A never-ending supply, easily made, self-sustainable. Homebrew can be made out of damn near anything if you're not drinking it.



Small engines are easy to convert with just a little tweaking of the carb (if needed at all).

And believe it or not, most cars will also run on pure alcohol without the need for any of these stupid "conversion kits". Vehicles with carburetors might need a bit of tweaking to run smooth, and most (not all but most) computerized vehicles automatically self-adjust to the octane levels.

The trick is to start with a 50/50 mix of gas and alcohol, and working your way down until your running on pure alcohol alone. Of course you want to start with a very small engine first, learning the process and various check points, before working your way up to a full-sized vehicle.

It's a little more involved than what I've listed out, but you get the idea.

One of many things TPTB don't want the average citizen to know.


Also when running ethanol in a gas engine there are a few other you have to do. You have to ensure you have the correct fuel lines (ethanol will eat rubber and corrode metals) so they must be plastic or stainless. Same with the fuel tank. If you have an electric fuel pump it will likely need to be replaced as well (ethanol conducts electricity better than gasoline) with a mechanical pump or an electric pump rated for ethanol. The onboard computers in newer cars should be reprogrammed to burn the 105 octane ethanol... older cars with carbs are even easier. My last car was a FFV, and it is a nice option to have.



posted on Apr, 1 2013 @ 10:35 PM
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Be prepared to defend angry looters from the generator, imagine SHTF rioters seeing someone all comfortable with electricity.
Biogas from sludge is a great idea though, there are videos of people on youtube harvesting biogas with their septic tanks.



posted on Apr, 2 2013 @ 11:09 AM
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I read a few comments on here, and the choice for me would be, dried manure, wood and alcohol, you can make more alcohol, wood is in abundance where I am and if you have cattle, dried piles of it....wood and buffalo pies were used a lot by the native americans in the winter to keep warm and cook food year round....why try to reinvent the wheel?
If your in an area where you have wood and farm animals you have 2 of the 3, if you have preps, add what you need for a stil to your preps and then your good to go...practice practice to get it down, and that way when propane runs out ..and it will in a true SHTF, you don't need anything but time and your energy to chop wood, gather cow pies and with a little know how and a few ingredients, you can have alcohol, and that also has a lot of other uses...disinfecting, medical, cleaning, trading... bartering might be something you need to do...so why not set yourself up for seccess.
Plus to have enough propane for a year or 2...or longer...thats a lot, and if you ever have to bug out, how will you take all that propane with you? Just food for thought.



posted on Apr, 2 2013 @ 01:51 PM
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Diesel and Biodiesel.

For one thing, most don't realize that when you see 87, 89, and 93 gas at a station, there aren't 3 different tanks at play, it's being mixed by the pump. Not the case with diesel, so a bit easier to harvest in a SHTF scenario.

You can even get diesel fuel from transformers (I believe about 15 gallons worth), but harvesting it isn't easy.

Of course, if you can convert to use biodiesel as well, even more options.

Diesel engines are used by the military and truckers for a good reason....longevity and reliability. My diesel truck has over 70K miles on it, which is considered "just barely broken in" for a diesel.

Any generators I get are diesel for the same reason.

Diesel fuel can store for a while, and there are additives that can help with both diesel and regular gas that has sat for a while.

For me, my truck has two standard diesel tanks (front and rear), and an auxiliary tank that holds over 100 gallons (would have to check the paperwork to see how much)...so I could go on a scavenger run and cart back quite a bit of diesel.

My tractor also uses diesel, so another reason right there.

Our other truck and vehicles use regular gas, just as our riding mower does, so they are problematic, but in a SHTF situation, we'll just have to go all diesel...and limit our use sparingly.

Of course, our other transportation (horses) uses grass for fuel.



posted on Apr, 3 2013 @ 05:37 AM
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In no particular order:

-Biodiesel. I have key biocrop plants such as Jatropha & Castor. We have half the equipment needed for refined biodiesel (could finish the setup with a used home water heater). This year I intend stock the top biodiesel algae strains by years end. Problem with seedoil crops is it takes hot pressure to extract the oils, which isn't the case with the algaes.

-Giant Fresnel Lenses. I have 90 of these collected from rear projection TV's (free on Craigslist, collected them all in 2 months in 2009).


-Wind: Wind not particularly perpetually plentiful in FL, away from the coastline, but windMILLs for pumping water all one might need to power a complete aquaponic system that provides fed meat & fertilized veggies. Also a no brainer to water typical crops / aeroponics.

-Solar: Ideal here in FL, but still waiting on prices to go down more (which will continue to do so ad infinitum via Law of Accelerating Returns). Within a year I intend to implement my time lapse budget approach to integrating solar (in my view people looking at the total system pricing plan keeps them from budgeting in such systems as they can afford it thus keeping it from their realities completely, is the wrong cognitive approach).

-Steam: Over a long enough timeline, one could implement facility wide steampiping system tied into firepits / ovens etc fire powered utilities and appliances so that whenever anything is burned day to day steam energy is harnessed at the same time.

-

-Radiant Energy: Drums full of water inside greenhouses that heat up during day can be all it takes to 'heat' a greenhouse during night.

-Biomass: I have this one particular plant, often referred to as "Tree Marigold" that grows half the size of my house in about a year without water / fertilizer / nurture. Its unreal how fast and big this thing grows. 6" logs from this thing. Endless kindling. If you have the space, 200 of these could provide all the firewood fuels you might need for a year, sustainably. Although my knowledge and instincts both screan this plant isn't part of the legume family, I just cant see how this plant can function at such extreme optimums short of harnessing nitrogen from the atmosphere.

DRAWBACKS: Windmills & steam engines aren't so easy to get, anymore.

EDIT: Sorry, just realizing this thread about 'fuel' and not 'energy'.
edit on 3-4-2013 by IgnoranceIsntBlisss because: (no reason given)



posted on Apr, 3 2013 @ 05:49 AM
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Originally posted by CranialSponge
Bah, easy question OP...

Fuel of choice: 190 proof homebrew.

No ifs, ands, or buts about it in my mind.

A never-ending supply, easily made, self-sustainable. Homebrew can be made out of damn near anything if you're not drinking it.


Thats assuming you have massive orchards of fruit trees, or endless acres of other things, that you can manage to fertilize / maintain. Odd are in SHTF you'll be doing pretty damn good just having enough excess to fuel your personal spirits supply. Even here in FL, utilizing diverse tropical rootcrops no less, you'd be very lucky and well practiced to manage one acre per person to feed each inhabitant. The setup needed to do it wouldnt easily be achieved after SHTF / GTFO. If you start building it and living by it now perhaps.



posted on Apr, 3 2013 @ 06:03 AM
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Originally posted by jimmiec
Kudzu is plentiful, grows about a foot a day and can be used to make fuel. You can't kill the stuff. Here is a link about someone making fuel from it. This grows mostly in the southeast.


A massive stand was discovered up toward Canandia in recent years... for being the most demonized plant imaginable in places like where I live, a quick glance at wikipedia demonstrates it as being about the most useful plant imaginable (including kicking alcohol addiction). I fear its so over-demonized, and un-understood, that its uses that might motivate people to go out and tear it down for useful purposes is being lost. Typical of environmentalist propaganda, logic is thrown to waste in favor of irrational hair pulling street running dictations. Kudzu is a legume and high level nitrogen source: meaning although you might not power a car too well with it, you can 'energize' your crops with it quite well which is the same in many regards as utilizing petro-powered fertilizers (being the main use in the context of this thread).



posted on Apr, 4 2013 @ 10:51 AM
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Personally I like the propane Kit for my Gen, because If I run out of propane from my bottle I can always use the Naturalgas from my houses Fireplace, Thats in a lights out scenario, not a full blown collapse. Then again I do live in an area with a HUGE abdunce of Natural Gas, that seems to seep out of the ground. I live next to the Arkoma Basin, in Arkansas. Heres a pic of Natural Gas from the Shale and Clay formations in the US






posted on Apr, 4 2013 @ 01:13 PM
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Originally posted by IgnoranceIsntBlisss

Originally posted by CranialSponge
Bah, easy question OP...

Fuel of choice: 190 proof homebrew.

No ifs, ands, or buts about it in my mind.

A never-ending supply, easily made, self-sustainable. Homebrew can be made out of damn near anything if you're not drinking it.


Thats assuming you have massive orchards of fruit trees, or endless acres of other things, that you can manage to fertilize / maintain. Odd are in SHTF you'll be doing pretty damn good just having enough excess to fuel your personal spirits supply. Even here in FL, utilizing diverse tropical rootcrops no less, you'd be very lucky and well practiced to manage one acre per person to feed each inhabitant. The setup needed to do it wouldnt easily be achieved after SHTF / GTFO. If you start building it and living by it now perhaps.



Dandelions roots my friend, dandelion roots.



posted on Apr, 5 2013 @ 01:13 AM
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reply to post by CranialSponge
 


Those taproots are helacious to harvest, especially in amounts to convert to fuel for powering vehicles. I'd start working on wood gasifier components. Now if you have biodiesel you can power tractors that could make for some plentiful harvests to counter my previous argument. Ethanol surely has uses in a full spectrum options array, and should be understood, but I can't much see putting all the eggs in that gas can.

EDIT: I forgot to mention thus far that methanol (condensed and purified woodgas) production is critical for biodiesel production.
edit on 5-4-2013 by IgnoranceIsntBlisss because: (no reason given)





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