First Defense for Paul: Spoken by Jesus

reply to post by sacgamer25


I do not agree 100% with the unconditional love since it is a to much of a simplyfication.

A theory from my point of view and I am probably wrong since I do not have all the information I need to make a precise approximation:

God treats every souls with what is needed for the soul to grow to make it evolve to its potential and god will wait for a soul to get it patiently. If all souls was allowed to be in the core of heaven then heaven would be destroyed within moments from my point of view because the ego parasitic plague of duality would infect the loving ones. That is the reason this planet/humanity is quarantined.

It is very easy to love every human from a distance when you do not have to put up with the small mindedness the dualistic views create. Just because god loves a soul do not mean god can stand the behavior of that soul and want to be around it when it misbehaves.

I myself have a hard time loving everybody unconditionally. I can at least say I will love what you one day will become.

Originally posted by jmdewey60
reply to post by sacgamer25

 

Invited into it by Grace and remain in it by faith. What does that mean to you?

That's a complex subject and not without controversy among Christian theologians.
If you want to gain some insight into the question, I would recommend:
Justification and Variegated Nomism: The Paradoxes of Paul, by D. A. Carson
Grace means that you don't have to show your pedigree at the door to prove a certain bloodline.
Faith means doing as the Holy Spirit guides, in accordance with abiding in Christ.

But what do you do when the holy spirit tell you not to trust what you have been told about it and listen to it not a human created view of it? Who knows itself best? The bible or the holy spirit?

Originally posted by jmdewey60
reply to post by Akragon

 

Technically he said this isn't his kingdom...

He said that his kingdom was not of this world, in John 18:36.
The Greek word here is Kosmos where the primary definition means a system.
There being something wrong with a system that would kill God when He fell into their hands, obviously there needed to be a creation of a new order.
Christ's kingdom is what is ushering in that new world.

As far as I remember Kosmos is best defined as Universe... even the physical world...

Somehow I don't think this will ever be his new world... its not meant to be

this world will always be based on its primary

That being chaos...

Originally posted by jmdewey60
reply to post by sacgamer25

 

God does not give grace to everyone.

Hypothetically at least, grace is available to anyone, but that is not the same thing as what you are claiming

God does give his grace to everyone but not everyone receives it. Only the one that does what he said receives it. Grace is God's love in order to receive it one must pursue love. Love God and Love your neighbor everything rests on love. Because God is love, there is no need for it to be hypothetical.

If you pursue love you find love. This is the truth. You can make it more complicated if you wish but in need not be more complicated than this. That is why it is good news. Even if you don't agree it sounds like good news. I am not condemning nor persecuting any man with my words. I am only here to encourage you to see love in a new way. In a consuming way that will take over your life. God is love, let love take over your life. Die to yourself so love can take over.

Originally posted by LittleByLittle

Originally posted by jmdewey60
reply to post by sacgamer25

 

Invited into it by Grace and remain in it by faith. What does that mean to you?

That's a complex subject and not without controversy among Christian theologians.
If you want to gain some insight into the question, I would recommend:
Justification and Variegated Nomism: The Paradoxes of Paul, by D. A. Carson
Grace means that you don't have to show your pedigree at the door to prove a certain bloodline.
Faith means doing as the Holy Spirit guides, in accordance with abiding in Christ.

But what do you do when the holy spirit tell you not to trust what you have been told about it and listen to it not a human created view of it? Who knows itself best? The bible or the holy spirit?

The Holy Spirit never contradicts Christ. If you don't understand Paul, you think he contradicts Christ, then listen only to Christ. The spirit of love never speaks against the word of love that was Christ.

Originally posted by LittleByLittle
reply to post by sacgamer25

 

It is very easy to love every human from a distance when you do not have to put up with the small mindedness the dualistic views create. Just because god loves a soul do not mean god can stand the behavior of that soul and want to be around it when it misbehaves.

I myself have a hard time loving everybody unconditionally. I can at least say I will love what you one day will become.

You are correct loving everyone unconditionally can seem impossible. And for me or any man we simply can't do it. But when we pursue love, at some point if we are earnest in our pursuit, the spirit of love, The Holy Spirit, kind of takes over where the sinful man was incapable. I would not say anyone has ever been made perfect while still living in the flesh but I think it possible for a man to become enough "like Christ" that the world would have to take notice. We must first believe we can defeat sin before we can.

You are also correct the Holy Spirit does not dwell in us when we sin. Even a small burst of Anger drives out the Holy Spirit. Because the Spirit of love does not dwell where the spirit of anger dwells. When you let go of your anger in the pursuit of love the spirit of anger leaves and the spirit of love returns. All spirits are from God, he is the creator of everything seen and unseen. This is the knowledge you need to overcome your own demons, the spirits that attack your conscience or create unnecessary anxiety. Pursue love and these sprits will be pushed out by the Spirit of Love.

Being filled with the Holy Spirit, the spirit of love, is a consuming feeling that takes you down an endless path in the pursuit of love. But each step is more joyful than the one before, because you know each step brings you closer to Christ, who is the love of this creation.

I know the logic behind spirits is confusing but it is accurate and biblical.

reply to post by Akragon

Somehow I don't think this will ever be his new world... its not meant to be

I suppose there is no purpose in life, then?
Why struggle?

I think you are wrong and Jesus came to save the world, that is "primary".

reply to post by sacgamer25

God does give his grace to everyone but not everyone receives it.

Offering is not the same as giving.
Are you claiming that God forces it on us against our will?

Grace is God's love . . .

Can you quote the Bible where it defines grace like that? I don't know, maybe I'm missing something. I said earlier that I meant to do an exhaustive word study on Grace for my blog, but haven't yet, and am now suffering for it.

. . . God is love . . .

I think you are taking one verse, out of context, and blowing it up to create an entire dogma from it.

. . . die to yourself . . .

I tried finding that the other day and could't. You say it as if you were quoting something but it isn't a biblical quote unless you know one like that. Paul says to die to sin, I could find that, but not your saying. You make posts full of what seems to me to be pseudo-biblicalosity.

reply to post by LittleByLittle

But what do you do when the holy spirit tell you not to trust what you have been told about it and listen to it not a human created view of it? Who knows itself best? The bible or the holy spirit?

Every single word that comes out of the mouth of someone telling you "about it", the holy spirit is telling you, "Yes, that's right, . . yes, that's right, . . yes, that's right . . ."?
I seriously doubt that.
What do you mean, "human created view"?
Do you mean that you have a spirit created view?
And whatever you think, that is right, because you think it, and God would not be so cruel as to allow you to think something that wasn't right?
What you were told, that came out of a human making those sounds.
What you think, those are human thoughts.
The holy spirit is guiding you to this forum to learn something.
That's how it works.
You have to learn something every day. That is the 'perfecting' process.
I can guarantee you that no one you have ever heard telling you "how it is" has gotten it 'right'.
Different people have different pieces, and you have to expose yourself to those, otherwise you will never have them in your grasp to start with, in order to have that little voice or feeling or whatever tell you it is right or not.[

reply to post by LittleByLittle

What person in their right mind would want to be on earth if they do not have to for some reason if they could be beside god feeling the light all around them surrounded by the most clear minded and wisest soul that have ever been, playing around in happiness like children and having all knowledge/views at their fingertips to be shared with each other.

Huh?
This general sort of thing, the needing to be in close physical proximity with God, I have a problem with.
Do you really think that is necessary?
Do you realize that what you envision is just not possible?
We have access to God now, yes, in this world, so drab and dreary.
This is what we came here for, this universe, and do you really believe you can fix things by just going to another planet or something?
We all need to recognize that this is the universe, like it or not, and that word really means something, that this is all there is. If there is something wrong with it, we need to fix the whole thing, the entire universe.
We made it, to start with, because we wanted to exist as beings in a real world, with real bodies. This was the only way to fulfill that desire but there are pitfalls and Jesus recognized that and things are going to be bad for a long, long time until we get unified in spirit like we did when we created it and work together to make it better.
Or just ignore everything I just said and while away your life imagining you can just escape it all. Maybe you can, but you are not going to like it, and I know because I have been there. So, man up and stop whimpering.

Originally posted by jmdewey60
reply to post by 3NL1GHT3N3D1

 

How can you consider Earth Jesus' kingdom?

"On" earth.
His kingdom, on Earth.
Not, the earth is his kingdom.
Those who believe in Jesus enter into the kingdom, the new spiritual 'Israel'.
We are in the world, but not of the world, or at least we should be.
If there is evil going on in the world then we should not participate in it, or sanction it, or lend assistance to it.
The message of the existence of this kingdom should be spread by its members until all enter in, which may take a while.

Have you entered the kingdom?
Has the kingdom been revealed?

reply to post by Itisnowagain

Have you entered the kingdom?
Has the kingdom been revealed?

YES . . . did you miss that somehow?
That is what the New Testament is.
It's the constitution for the new kingdom.
Like someone already said, yesterday,
the kingdom is within you,
[color=DarkSlateGray]. . .so says Jesus,
according to one of the four canonical gospels.

Originally posted by jmdewey60
reply to post by Itisnowagain

 

Have you entered the kingdom?
Has the kingdom been revealed?

YES . . . did you miss that somehow?
That is what the New Testament is.
It's the constitution for the new kingdom.
Like someone already said, yesterday, the kingdom is within you, or so says Jesus, according to one of the four canonical gospels.

edit on 3-4-2013 by jmdewey60 because: (no reason given)

Peace and understanding and compassion and love is the kingdom. Harmony. Yet you seem very annoyed by everything.
When the kingdom is revealed it is found not to be a book or a story or what someone said, or a set of rules..
It is real - it is paradise unveiled.
it is here presently but it is sought elsewhere.

If you are not happy with the way it is then you suffer. That suffering does not exist in the kingdom.

reply to post by Itisnowagain

That suffering does not exist in the kingdom.

You are talking about another kingdom.
One of your own imagination.
Not out of the Bible, obviously.

Originally posted by jmdewey60
reply to post by Itisnowagain

 

That suffering does not exist in the kingdom.

You are talking about another kingdom.
One of your own imagination.
Not out of the Bible, obviously.

edit on 3-4-2013 by jmdewey60 because: (no reason given)

The kingdom of heaven - in the world but not of the world.
Heaven on earth.
To you it is just a story in a book but it is what is ever present.

Originally posted by Itisnowagain

Originally posted by jmdewey60
reply to post by Itisnowagain

 

That suffering does not exist in the kingdom.

You are talking about another kingdom.
One of your own imagination.
Not out of the Bible, obviously.

edit on 3-4-2013 by jmdewey60 because: (no reason given)

The kingdom of heaven - in the world but not of the world.
Heaven on earth.
To you it is just a story in a book but it what is real.

edit on 3-4-2013 by Itisnowagain because: (no reason given)

You are simplyfying it a bit from my experiance of it. . Your mind/ego can still be annoyed in the Kingdom especially of the limitations of a human body and lack of senses that makes you wonder what you are experiancing. When you feel the touch of the otherside thru solid objects then you understand that reality is not what we believe it is. But yes when you just sing or rest and the mind goes silent then there is only love/harmony/oneness.

From my point of view and I hope that my views are totally wrong:
But yes jmdewey60 is talking about things that jmdewey60 have not experianced yet telling people who have experianced it what it is we have experianced based on what jmdewey60 has been told it should be like in a book. It is hilarious from my point of view. The funny thing is that I was just like jmdewey60 before I experianced the bliss and started spinning. A lot of conditioning in the way to really know god within jmdewey60. The cup is already full with views and have no room for the holy spirit. But I have faith that jmdewey60 will get there eventually.

I am staying until it is over but the pull to go home is great some days.

I am home - where else is there but presence?

Originally posted by Itisnowagain


I am home - where else is there but presence?

edit on 3-4-2013 by Itisnowagain because: (no reason given)

Good question. My mind does not know so I cannot answer that but I have a feeling my soul does. I still have a lot of undiscovered things to play around with. . I never felt comfortable being human. There is something off in the whole experiance. Even now there is still something missing that I haven't found yet I think. Ah whatever it will come when it is supposed to.

Originally posted by LittleByLittle

Originally posted by Itisnowagain


I am home - where else is there but presence?

edit on 3-4-2013 by Itisnowagain because: (no reason given)

Good question. My mind does not know so I cannot answer that but I have a feeling my soul does. I still have a lot of undiscovered things to play around with.

. I never felt comfortable being human. There is something off in the whole experiance. Even now there is still something missing that I haven't found yet I think. Ah whatever it will come when it is supposed to.

The mind believes there is more so it 'seeks'. The 'seeking' is what divides you and drives you. That is why there is a feeling of something missing - there is the belief that there is more than there is.
This is complete.
You see the scene before you - that scene cannot 'be' without being seen. The scene and the seer of the seen are one.
Christ is the image that is appearing presently and the father is what sees the image - they are never apart - they are one. Presence. When this is realized peace descends - because the person in time just vanishes.
There is only ever what is happening presently.
Look to see if you can see what is seeing this (appearance).

You are right though, it will happen when it does.

reply to post by LittleByLittle

Originally posted by LittleByLittle

Originally posted by Itisnowagain
I never felt comfortable being human.

You are not human - you are presence. All is presence and then names are added and those labels seem to separate the whole into bits.
Presence is all. Where is the past and where is the future - these are just words that seem to mean something. But those words cannot appear unless there is presence.