First Defense for Paul: Spoken by Jesus

Originally posted by 3NL1GHT3N3D1
reply to post by jmdewey60

 

How can you consider Earth Jesus' kingdom? Isn't he the prince of peace? How can a place with so much war and deception be considered the prince of peace's kingdom? If that were true, we would have no war and no one in power lying to us.

Technically he said this isn't his kingdom...

reply to post by jmdewey60


Even if we were shown heaven in this life we should not think ourselves to be saved, rather it is all the more responsibility on us to trust in God and give all we have in His Name.

Sublime gifts are the safest test of man, because they can either do a lot of good, or a lot of bad.

Instead of a man recognizing God giving him his help, he would say "God humbles himself before me, therefore I am great", and then they are a ruin.

reply to post by Akragon


reply to post by 3NL1GHT3N3D1



The kingdom which fights, takes, and dies is not His, but the Kingdom which gives, lives, and grows is His.

reply to post by jmdewey60

1 John 4:7-11 Beloved, let us love one another, for love is from God, and whoever loves has been born of God and knows God. Anyone who does not love does not know God, because God is love. In this the love of God was made manifest among us, that God sent his only Son into the world, so that we might live through him.

In this is love, not that we have loved God but that he loved us and sent his Son to be the propitiation for our sins. Beloved, if God so loved us, we also ought to love one another.

John 1:14 And the Word became flesh and dwelt among us, and we have seen his glory, glory as of the only Son from the Father, full of grace and truth.

You want to "own" Grace because you are a Christian. Why was Jesus sent to the world? To teach us how and why to pursue love. We love because we are first loved. God's love for those who believe is Grace. You don't own Grace and "YOUR" idea separates you from everyone who doesn't agree with you. Grace is the unconditional love poured out on all by a loving God. The message of unconditional love was taught by Jesus and further explained by Paul.

What I am saying is not against Christ. What it is against is creating a religious ownership of God's unconditional love/Grace. The father unconditionally loves all men. It is only when one pursues unconditional love that they will find love. God is love.

1 John 4:8 Anyone who does not love does not know God, because God is love.
1 John 4:16 So we have come to know and to believe the love that God has for us. God is love, and whoever abides in love abides in God, and God abides in him.
1 John 4:18 There is no fear in love, but perfect love casts out fear. For fear has to do with punishment, and whoever fears has not been perfected in love.

Grace/Love/God/Jesus/The Holy Spirit. They all agree, God loves unconditionally all men. Pursue love and you will find love.

www.abovetopsecret.com...

Originally posted by jmdewey60
reply to post by 3NL1GHT3N3D1

 

You say that people are saved apart from the law . . .

I don't . . for one thing, I don't believe anyone is 'saved' in the popular connotation of the word. That is yet to be seen, at the end of time.
People are 'right with God' or in good standing in Christ's kingdom on earth, where we are invited into it by grace, and remain in it by Faith.
If we endure to the end, then we should expect a favorable outcome, come Judgment Day.

Invited into it by Grace and remain in it by faith. What does that mean to you?

We are invited to love by love and to remain in love. This is what it means to me.

Everyone is invited to the wedding supper, but only those who "DO" what he said will take their seat. What did he say to "DO"? He said to love one another as I have loved you. He did no harm to anyone; he freed the sinners from their sin. He healed the sick, he even forgave those who murdered him on the cross. This was all done in the name of love, that you might pursue love.

Originally posted by Akragon

Originally posted by 3NL1GHT3N3D1
reply to post by jmdewey60

 

How can you consider Earth Jesus' kingdom? Isn't he the prince of peace? How can a place with so much war and deception be considered the prince of peace's kingdom? If that were true, we would have no war and no one in power lying to us.

Technically he said this isn't his kingdom...

No but how I wish it was. The kingdom of love on earth.

reply to post by sacgamer25


You can have the Kingdom and invite everyone into it. Take it where you go. Show it always and do not be afraid. People are not so harmful when you are kind, humble, and not judging.

Simply, be, in the Kingdom.

Originally posted by backcase
reply to post by sacgamer25

 

You can have the Kingdom and invite everyone into it. Take it where you go. Show it always and do not be afraid. People are not so harmful when you are kind, humble, and not judging.

Simply, be, in the Kingdom.

edit on 113030p://222 by backcase because: (no reason given)

Yes, and I believe the scriptures point to a time when all will obey the message, and the kingdom of heaven will reside with the kingdom of men. I only pray that I am alive to see the change.

Originally posted by backcase
reply to post by Akragon

 

reply to post by 3NL1GHT3N3D1

 

The kingdom which fights, takes, and dies is not His, but the Kingdom which gives, lives, and grows is His.

edit on 113030p://222 by backcase because: (no reason given)

Interesting...

Yet he said "if this were my kingdom, my followers would fight for me"

Check john 18

reply to post by Akragon


That was a very good example, and for me it required some thought.

The intention for fighting in this kingdom is for death, and for reveling in that which dies. And the intention behind fighting for Jesus, Who is the Love of God, would be for life. So it would be the intent of he who fights.

It is beautiful and it illuminates the words of St. Paul when he says, "all things are lawful for me," because it shows how what could be a sin becomes a righteous act, when it is done for the glory of God.

But I suppose I did not think my sentence through, although I am glad I have not, you have given me knowledge to this wonderful mystery Akragon, thx

reply to post by backcase


Just words from a "deceiver" my friend...

reply to post by Akragon


the "deceiver" was not just speaking to me then, rather it was the "thought provoker".

Originally posted by backcase
reply to post by Akragon

 

the "deceiver" was not just speaking to me then, rather it was the "thought provoker".

They are one and the same...

Though one label requires judgement, and the other is recognition

reply to post by Akragon


Even though I may think you to be a deceiver, I would like you to know that I still take your words into account. True deceit is mixed with the truth, therefore it is more harmful, so I take your thoughts with a grain of salt to strengthen my discernment.

reply to post by 3NL1GHT3N3D1

How can you consider Earth Jesus' kingdom?

"On" earth.
His kingdom, on Earth.
Not, the earth is his kingdom.
Those who believe in Jesus enter into the kingdom, the new spiritual 'Israel'.
We are in the world, but not of the world, or at least we should be.
If there is evil going on in the world then we should not participate in it, or sanction it, or lend assistance to it.
The message of the existence of this kingdom should be spread by its members until all enter in, which may take a while.

reply to post by jmdewey60


The kingdom of God is within you, not around you.

Look not outside yourself for answers, but within.

reply to post by Akragon

Technically he said this isn't his kingdom...

He said that his kingdom was not of this world, in John 18:36.
The Greek word here is Kosmos where the primary definition means a system.
There being something wrong with a system that would kill God when He fell into their hands, obviously there needed to be a creation of a new order.
Christ's kingdom is what is ushering in that new world.

reply to post by sacgamer25

You want to "own" Grace because you are a Christian.

You can talk about "grace" all you want and define it how you want but you are talking about the word, grace, as it is written in the New Testament, and then it takes on a definite meaning, that you have to understand by knowing how that writer meant it to be understood.
You are just tossing that out the window, but you still want to claim biblical authority for your theory.

1 John as you quoted is not talking about unconditional love. He is talking about love within the Christian community.
God does not give grace to everyone.
Hypothetically at least, grace is available to anyone, but that is not the same thing as what you are claiming.

reply to post by sacgamer25

Invited into it by Grace and remain in it by faith. What does that mean to you?

That's a complex subject and not without controversy among Christian theologians.
If you want to gain some insight into the question, I would recommend:
Justification and Variegated Nomism: The Paradoxes of Paul, by D. A. Carson
Grace means that you don't have to show your pedigree at the door to prove a certain bloodline.
Faith means doing as the Holy Spirit guides, in accordance with abiding in Christ.

Originally posted by Akragon

Originally posted by 3NL1GHT3N3D1
reply to post by jmdewey60

 

How can you consider Earth Jesus' kingdom? Isn't he the prince of peace? How can a place with so much war and deception be considered the prince of peace's kingdom? If that were true, we would have no war and no one in power lying to us.

Technically he said this isn't his kingdom...

I agree. What person in their right mind would want to be on earth if they do not have to for some reason if they could be beside god feeling the light all around them surrounded by the most clear minded and wisest soul that have ever been, playing around in happiness like children and having all knowledge/views at their fingertips to be shared with each other.