Would Christians Be As Violent As Muslims If Their Religion Was Threatened?

Originally posted by NorEaster

Originally posted by CranialSponge
Apparently, the answer is "Yes"

ATS thread

What timing!!!

Excellent!

[/thread]

Thanks everyone for your indulgence. No more wondering, and it looks like I won the argument.

No...

You didnt win the argument because Christianity IS under attack by the progressive left and as far as I know I haven't heard of any Christians blowing themselves up with suicide vests in order to kill non-christians. Nor have they declared war on the lefty's that are trying to remove any semblance of Christianity from the public eye.

I think it's funny how atheists always attack Christians, you guys know there are other religions other than the Jesus Christ based ones, right?

Originally posted by CranialSponge
Apparently, the answer is "Yes"

ATS thread

Most of the time, I agree with you, so we rarely get to talk together in threads. Anyways, I have to disagree with you this time. First of all, the Muslim religion is not threatened. Their violence is related to the ideology that everyone must be like themselves. On the other hand, the majority of christians would do what they want and let everyone else decide for themselves. But there will always be exceptions to these over generalizations. A persons level of sanity has a lot to do with this. But according to the teachings, the insane know not what they do and would enter heaven.

Plus there are people that call themselves christians that don't follow the teachings. Thus they are not true christians. Just take a look at the Nazis. If following the teachings, a christian can't become violent in the name of religion. So this entire thread is irrelevant.

Originally posted by Nicks87

Originally posted by NorEaster

Originally posted by CranialSponge
Apparently, the answer is "Yes"

ATS thread

What timing!!!

Excellent!

[/thread]

Thanks everyone for your indulgence. No more wondering, and it looks like I won the argument.

No...

You didnt win the argument because Christianity IS under attack by the progressive left and as far as I know I haven't heard of any Christians blowing themselves up with suicide vests in order to kill non-christians. Nor have they declared war on the lefty's that are trying to remove any semblance of Christianity from the public eye.

I think it's funny how atheists always attack Christians, you guys know there are other religions other than the Jesus Christ based ones, right?

Why would Christians blow themselves up to kill anyone, when they can just pull the trigger and "git 'er done"? Middle East suicide bombers do what they do as a last resort. They don't have the trillions of dollars in advanced weaponry that their enemies have. They don't have predator drones and smart bomb missiles that kill them from literally out of nowhere. The best they have is suicide bomb vests and suicide car/truck bombs.

As for why some atheists have a bug up their asses about Christians, maybe it's because of these folks and their agenda for the rest of us...

It depends. Would I kill innocent people? No. I'd move off grid, and praise The Lord that way. If a revolution started, I would probably join, depending on my family's ability to survive off grid.

It would be more of a defensive war. If you chase me, I'll fight you. If the majority revolts, I'll join.

If you attempt to jail me for my beliefs I will fight, if you attempt to kill me, I'll fight. However, my first option would be to move deep country, off grid.

I know, redundancy. Sorry.

What do you mean Christians would be as violent as Muslims. They are as violent as Muslims, do you remember the Crusade's, have you ever read about it? If religion was wiped away in one felt swoop, we would still find a way to seperate ourselves from each other and kill each other off. It seems to be in the human genome to war against other humans.Religion is just the mask of excuse.

Originally posted by wildtimes
reply to post by Malcher

 

I care when videos are deceptive. What is the point of posting them?

The other two (still haven't watched them, have you?) show how REAL PEOPLE are peddling this crap. They're not 'deceptive'. They are real-life videos; one of a preacher who is condoning violence and getting ready to sermonize his 'congregation' about how it's necessary, and the other is of a nutjob Evangelical hater who assaulted a Mexican kid and assaulted and battered a camera-man! Those are not "deceptive". They are real.

That's the point of posting them.

But your posts seem overly aggressive towards those who do not agree with you compared to the Christians responding here. If you were to go out and commit a violent act on another would it be correct to say "see how violent those non-Christians are?"

Then wha la...you represent all non-Christians, according to your logic.

reply to post by NorEaster


Islam currently considers heresy and blasphemy punishable by death. Christians would have to regress 400 years to get there. It's possible but it's not going to happen overnight.

reply to post by Malcher

Malcher,
I fully acknowledge that I do get fired up sometimes, and sometimes become defensive - because of how I have been treated by some of those who disagree with me. But the two videos are not my 'opinion'; they are real life people; one is openly preaching, encouraging, and condoning violence in the name of Christianity; the other is a congregant in action.

There's nothing to dispute. Refusal to even look at them is willful ignorance of facts - literally turning a blind eye to reality - and when that takes place, yes, I get steamed.

As for what if I get violent......

I don't commit acts of violence. The pen is mightier than the sword. I'm not standing on a street-corner shouting about hell-fire and brimstone. I'm not calling for "taking out Iran to bring on Armageddon"; I'm not giving my money to people doing so, or performing cheerleading drills with a American Flag in one hand and an Israeli flag in the other in support of it.
I'm not throwing Jews out of conferences who want to talk to the Christians for Israel warmongers, and I'm not shrieking at a kid in a coffee shop and shoving him and slapping him and throwing dirt on him. I'm not holding signs condemning other people's way of life.

I'm not pitching a fit in public. On ATS people can choose to read what I write, and look at materials I present, or not. I get attacked as often as not when I write about the things that matter to me, which are as follows:

Peace and Cooperation instead of aggression and war
Education and cultural cross-talk that leads to mutual understanding and acceptance
Stewardship of the planet, the environment, and of all creatures and beings it nurtures
The protection of children and others from abuse, whether physical, emotional, or psychological
Bringing the banking elites to their knees and stopping rampant greed
Ensuring that everyone on the planet has enough food, clean water, shelter, and access to health care, and does not live in FEAR or SLAVERY under oppressive tyrants

Hope that makes it clear to you. So yes, anyone who tells me that those things above are wrong or impossible and that I'm evil and 'of the devil' or going to hell, will hear back from me in kind. And for what it's worth, I pay attention to patterns in people's posts - I am pretty good at identifying members' bents, personalities, and interests, if I have enough interactions with them - or read through their post history - and try to make mine just as transparent.
You can see which forums I haunt by looking at my profile.

Outspoken and sometimes abrasively so? Yes. A violent, cruel, and demon-possessed liar? Nope.

"We begin to die the day that we remain silent about things that matter." A truer statement has never been made. Know who said it?

reply to post by NorEaster
In the Crusades, in order to get supplies for the capture of Jerusalem , the crusaders ransacked a Christian City to get supplies. Would the Muslims kill their own for Allah? I think the Muslims would have their hands full with the Christians. I can see the Christians now, Banners flying. Banners that say "Kill for Jesus." We love you but you got to go.

reply to post by elouina

Plus there are people that call themselves christians that don't follow the teachings. Thus they are not true christians. Just take a look at the Nazis. If following the teachings, a christian can't become violent in the name of religion. So this entire thread is irrelevant.

You should familarize yourself with the "No True Scotsman" fallacy.

en.wikipedia.org...


But it seems like your argument is "Muslims are evil, but Christians that do bad things aren't real Christians".

Do you honestly not realize you are just lying to yourself???

Originally posted by NorthBlizzard
reply to post by Rubic0n

 

If Athiest "simply do not believe" then why are there many instances of them attacking Christianity? And why also is it that they attack Christianity much more than any other religion?
And no, not all scientists are egotistical and act like they know everything. But there are those who refuse to acknowledge the possibility of a God. Which goes against their own principles of science because the can't prove that God doesn't exist.

Let me quote myself to explain:

I think you have skewed and egotistical view and mentality on the world around you. Atheist in general simply do not believe, you perceive this aggressively. But you, say for some reason that atheist hate all religions. then you say they only attack Christianity...

I have also never seen a scientist claim to know everything there is about the universe.



You are over the place really, get a grip.

That basically answered your questions before you asked them had you read and understood it.


The problem is that you see any explanation from a atheist on how or why that they do not think a god exists as a attack. Yes there are people flat out attacking religion. As there are people flat out attacking atheism by for instance generalizing them and claiming they all attack religion (like you do). Why do they mainly "attack christianity you ask: they don't. I see them debate and argue all religions,how come?! Your egotistical point of view dictates that you only or mainly see them "attacking" christianity, you are simply over biased.

But there are those who refuse to acknowledge the possibility of a God. Which goes against their own principles of science because the can't prove that God doesn't exist.

It is not the principle of science that things do not exists. Quite the contrary actually.
Logical reason for this being that we can make up anything and ask science to "un-prove" it e.g

Claim " There are pink elephants that hang of 300 mile high cliffs by their purple tails on Alpha Centauri exist.....science .....disproof this!!!"

There is no end in sight this way and this is why claims of proof are either proven or remain theory until proven otherwise. In short , scientifically it will be up to you or anyone to actually bring forth tangible proof of the existence of a god. If you fail to do so it will remain unproven and mere theory.

Hope this helps.

reply to post by nownow

Would the Muslims kill their own for Allah?

I think that it is well established that Muslims have blown up busloads of people, including other Muslims to kill Jews in Israel.

Oh, I almost forgot. The Muslims stone women to death and hang them for adultery.

I suppose they are doing that for Allah. (I don't know why he just doesn't do it himself)

Originally posted by wildtimes
reply to post by Malcher

 

Malcher,
I fully acknowledge that I do get fired up sometimes, and sometimes become defensive - because of how I have been treated by some of those who disagree with me. But the two videos are not my 'opinion'; they are real life people; one is openly preaching, encouraging, and condoning violence in the name of Christianity; the other is a congregant in action.

There's nothing to dispute. Refusal to even look at them is willful ignorance of facts - literally turning a blind eye to reality - and when that takes place, yes, I get steamed.

As for what if I get violent......

I don't commit acts of violence. The pen is mightier than the sword. I'm not standing on a street-corner shouting about hell-fire and brimstone. I'm not calling for "taking out Iran to bring on Armageddon"; I'm not giving my money to people doing so, or performing cheerleading drills with a American Flag in one hand and an Israeli flag in the other in support of it.
I'm not throwing Jews out of conferences who want to talk to the Christians for Israel warmongers, and I'm not shrieking at a kid in a coffee shop and shoving him and slapping him and throwing dirt on him. I'm not holding signs condemning other people's way of life.

I'm not pitching a fit in public. On ATS people can choose to read what I write, and look at materials I present, or not. I get attacked as often as not when I write about the things that matter to me, which are as follows:

Peace and Cooperation instead of aggression and war
Education and cultural cross-talk that leads to mutual understanding and acceptance
Stewardship of the planet, the environment, and of all creatures and beings it nurtures
The protection of children and others from abuse, whether physical, emotional, or psychological
Bringing the banking elites to their knees and stopping rampant greed
Ensuring that everyone on the planet has enough food, clean water, shelter, and access to health care, and does not live in FEAR or SLAVERY under oppressive tyrants

Hope that makes it clear to you. So yes, anyone who tells me that those things above are wrong or impossible and that I'm evil and 'of the devil' or going to hell, will hear back from me in kind. And for what it's worth, I pay attention to patterns in people's posts - I am pretty good at identifying members' bents, personalities, and interests, if I have enough interactions with them - or read through their post history - and try to make mine just as transparent.
You can see which forums I haunt by looking at my profile.

Outspoken and sometimes abrasively so? Yes. A violent, cruel, and demon-possessed liar? Nope.

"We begin to die the day that we remain silent about things that matter." A truer statement has never been made. Know who said it?

This has all been addressed in my previous posts. What you say or do represents all non-Christians? So why tell me - so and so did this or they did that .

For you to tell me or ask me about individual people is disingenuous since i cannot know what is in their heads and too often i dont want to know. There are many kinds of people and i cannot tell them what to think, say or do.

If you were going to go down that road you should google Christian socialism because it seems to me like you never heard it.

Your speech that begins with the word peace sound a lot like Jesus' sermon on the mount.

Matthew 5

And seeing the multitudes, He went up on a mountain, and when He was seated His disciples came to Him.

Then He opened His mouth and taught them, saying:

Blessed are the poor in spirit,
For theirs is the kingdom of heaven.

Blessed are those who mourn,
For they shall be comforted.

Blessed are the meek,
For they shall inherit the earth.

Blessed are those who hunger and thirst for righteousness,
For they shall be filled.

Blessed are the merciful,
For they shall obtain mercy.

Blessed are the pure in heart,
For they shall see God.

Blessed are the peacemakers,
For they shall be called sons of God.

Blessed are those who are persecuted for righteousness' sake,
For theirs is the kingdom of heaven.

Blessed are you when they revile and persecute you, and say all kinds of evil against you falsely for My sake.

Rejoice and be exceedingly glad, for great is your reward in heaven, for so they persecuted the prophets who were before you.

reply to post by Malcher


My 'speech'? You mean these points that I speak out about?
It's meant more as a list.

" 1) Peace and Cooperation instead of aggression and war
2) Education and cultural cross-talk that leads to mutual understanding and acceptance
3) Stewardship of the planet, the environment, and of all creatures and beings it nurtures
4) The protection of children and others from abuse, whether physical, emotional, or psychological
5) Bringing the banking elites to their knees and stopping rampant greed
6) Ensuring that everyone on the planet has enough food, clean water, shelter, and access to health care, and does not live in FEAR or SLAVERY under oppressive tyrants "


I'm well aware of the similarity to Jesus' teachings, which are no different from many other great thinkers and spiritual 'leaders' who've been admired and whose words have been recognized as having the ring of Truth.

I was brought up as a Christian, but I do not credit the religion for my own personal moral compass. I credit my parents, my mind, my ability to think, and my kindness and wish to help others. I'd still believe in those things whether I'd ever heard of Christ or not.

I don't know what you're not understanding about me or my agenda, or how this relates to the OP.

It's true that I'm a "non-Christian" by definition, because I don't believe he resurrected or any of the stories. I don't believe in "original sin" (neither did he, for that matter), or that those who do not worship him are going to hell. I don't subscribe to any form of organized religion, because they've all missed the mark in my opinion (possible exception is Ba'hai in the Abrahamic family of religions).

I do, however, believe what he taught was correct, so I'm in agreement with him, as well as Krishna, Buddha, Ghandi, and many others. I also believe we reincarnate repeatedly, to learn, and eventually are released from the cycle once we have exhausted the lessons to be learned and ready to rest with the Divine. So, since my thinking is rejected by nearly ALL Christians, very few of them accept ME as having a valid point of view -- MOST "Christians" would (and do) reject me if I claim I'm one of them. Truth be told, I don't believe in the Nicene Creed, so I 'can't' call myself a "Christian". For that reason I refuse to have anything to do with those of them who use a 'fear and control' method -- except to tell them that what they are doing is wrong. Because it is. They've missed the message entirely.

As for the sermon on the mount story, Jesus was not the first, nor the one and only to say those things. They seem to me to be self-evident. We are all connected. The exclusionary "Christian faith" claiming that as long as one believes in him one goes to heaven - but anyone who doesn't believe he's the only Son of God goes to hell - doesn't make sense to me.

It's the one in the middle that whispers the most causing a stir between the two and it's this that sways a mans heart to do violence, but it's the one in the middle that is the most violent because he has no soul because he believes he's just an animal.

reply to post by NorEaster


What about the Rwanda genocide 65% of the populations were catholic. I know it was tribe against tribe. They still burn witches there so they have that old calvinist type of mentality ,kill anything they dont understand. As for the bible belt if it was shown that jesus was invented by the caesars (Flavians) (personaly I think it was). The wesboro baptist types would raise a stink for sure. Jimmy Swaggart if he is still around would get on tv and condemn it as blasphemy. It will make the weak minded scared.

reply to post by Malcher


Thanks I didnt know that. Another tidbit of knowledge to file away.

Originally posted by celticdog
reply to post by NorEaster

 

What about the Rwanda genocide 65% of the populations were catholic. I know it was tribe against tribe. They still burn witches there so they have that old calvinist type of mentality ,kill anything they dont understand. As for the bible belt if it was shown that jesus was invented by the caesars (Flavians) (personaly I think it was). The wesboro baptist types would raise a stink for sure. Jimmy Swaggart if he is still around would get on tv and condemn it as blasphemy. It will make the weak minded scared.

Okay, then the 3rd world ones would get violent too.

reply to post by NorEaster


"pull the trigger and "git 'er done" ???

Wow, what does that have to do with Christianity?

You have shown that you really have no idea what Christianity is all about or what Christians believe in and I seriously take offense to the garbage you've posted. It's just stereotypes and left-wing pop culture BS. It's pathetic.

Atheists are the most weak minded people. So afraid that they might be wrong they have to attack other people's beliefs to justify their own non-beliefs. What's wrong with just not believing? Why do you feel the need to bully people who know that a higher power created the earth and all living things?

You talk about Christianity being evil? Stalin was an atheist and killed around 50 million people but nobody wants to talk about that because nowdays it's so "cool" and trendy to be an atheist. GTFO

reply to post by Rubic0n


"Your egotistical point of view dictates that you only or mainly see them "attacking" christianity"


Egotistical is what atheism is all about. I've never met a humble atheist, In fact they sort of personify the me, me, me culture.