Hillary clinton apologizes for STD experiments on innocent Guatemalan people

reply to post by beezzer


I can totally understand where you're coming from beezzer in regards to precedent setting. In a way, it feels hypocritical. I'll start believing politicians' apologies when we have almost total transparency within our government and its research subject matters. That said though, gaining some sort of acknowledgment of past hidden crimes (for really, what they did was criminal) could grant even a minute amount of peace for any (doubtful after 60 years) surviving victims and their families. Imagine what it must be like to spend a lifetime thinking that perhaps something bad had been deliberately done to you and never being quite sure. Although I have heavy doubts about any of their victims still being alive (60 freaking years...), maybe it will give some sense of closure.

Plus, acknowledgment at the higher levels of government of wrongdoing also draws attention to the fact that the government has done some very deplorable things in the past though people will assume that all this kind of thing is indeed in the past. We are in a time where it seems like there is an ever growing mountain of secrets that just keeps getting bigger and bigger. Having the awareness that one's government isn't a freaking saint at least acknowledges that fact even if people would rather duck their heads in the sand about such things. Now if only they'd start letting the sun shine in everywhere, eh? Then I'll take their apologies to past victims seriously.

Originally posted by Wrabbit2000
These are the kinds of things I believe the United States will at some point need a "Truth and Reconciliation" committee to investigate, make public and make peace with to move beyond.

Excellent point Wrabbit. Power corrupts and blinds, beyond recovery. These old men who crafted this power elite die, still angry and seeking absolute domination and control, through lies and abuse. I was in it at a VERY high level; and witnessed it first hand. I opted out and resigned at the first request I was given to commit an illegal action. The thing they wanted me to do was a hook. Once done, you are in the club for life. Fortunately, I had an inner compass which told me 'no' - and I resigned my post.

I have run into this club in international dealings since. They have not changed, and they still think that they rule. We have got to come to terms with this. Our abuse of some nations now hurts us on the international stage. In many ways my businesses are like ambassadorships, seeking a new common ground with developing nations.

well this right up there with pres clintons apoligy for mk ultra lol odd husband and wife both apologies dealing with human experiments

well im so glad she's sorry!

still a conspiracy theory if you told this to any american.

It does make one contemplate just how far and wide ranging the experiments go. It's things like this that I point out to people who still scoff at those "wacky conspiracy theorists" for believing the government is out to get them, etc. They can't wrap their head around the fact that such things could be "allowed" but I see this as just part of the greater social conditioning that government is for the good of the people and we are all protected by "them" (you know, the old "they wouldn't be allowed to do that" "they say" "(insert supreme being) wouldn't allow such atrocities" whilst seemingly ignoring or unaware of the atrocities that have and do go on constantly. But I too once thought people who believed such things were suffering from paranoid delusions. Amazing how just the smallest bit of ernest research can start the revel of how vastly different the world is to how most of s have been conditioned to think it is. And can't blame people for not wanting to believe it as it is incredibly disturbing.

But the truth is the government, or parts of it anyway, most certainly do allow and conduct experimentation on its own citizens whether justifed by being for the greater good, excused by social prejudices (using perceived useless members of society such as the poor, disabled, minorities of whatever group is currently approved for discrimination, fellow elitists who are deemed weak, sympathisers, or rivals, and so on). if they do this to their own species, its no wonder they have no problem doing even worse to animals. It bothers me to the extent that you have to somehow shut off the fury, repulsion and utter hopeless grief it elicits.

If some government official is apologizing for something as horrific as the current subject or past nightmares like Mk ultra (I say past simply to indicate when the apology occurred as these programs absolutely still go on whether under new titles or just more controls), etc then it at least slightly possible that we might have a newly elected official with a heart. In Hilary's case, of course, its more far more probable that she believes there is some advantage to be had from it and nothing more, and is only acknowledged due to a whistle blower, preemptive damage control or distraction move, etc. There may be some caring people who work for the betterment of humanity, but the definition of just what that entails (and the means they will employ to achieve it) are exceedingly different from the average non-wealthy, non-government person.

What is slightly amusing is that the people who do such things are still breathing the same air and to an extent eating at least some of the same food, drinking the same water (bottled water doesn't fully get around all the routes of ingestion, etc). In other words, they are just as brain damaged and shot up with unnatural junk as the rest of us, to greater or lesse extent based on what fellow mad scientists they actually trusty care for them. And though we are beneath contempt, they also see little wrong with targeting one of their fellows either for perceived weakness, suspected lack of dedication or caring about things they shouldn't.

I always wondered how people in such positions could do seemingly beneficial things but be so horrible according to other reports and actions. Then I learned about how differently their mind set and philosophy and belief systems work. And those that follow dualist beliefs who seek balance - never forget that the seemingly most generous and compassionate can also be the cruelest and harshest in the non-public part of heir activities (not saying this is always the case, but good to keep in mind the possibility rather than deciding someone must be a saint for some highly publicized actions).

In some ways I think they do have it worse than us. We have to wrry about them, but they have to worry about us finding them out (or more precisely, enough of us caring enough to do anything about what we find out) but they also have to constantly be on guard against their fellows just waiting for any hint of weakness to bring them down like a pack of wolves against a failing pack member.

All for the betterment of their own "kind" of course.

reply to post by NewtonDKC


Human Radiation Experiments:

Some of the subjects were children, mental patients, retarded people or prison inmates....Dr. O'Toole said many of the experiments addressed important, even pioneering, research that has had lasting benefits for the American public..."It's really quite heroic," Dr. O'Toole said of some of the work."

www.nytimes.com...

Edgewood Arsenal Experiments, Operation Delirium:

Ketchum often hears from aging test subjects looking for information about what the Army did to them. “I need to know everything that happened to me because it could give me some peace and fewer nightmares,” one veteran wrote to him. In such cases, Ketchum responds with a mixture of defensiveness and empathy. “Well, Mike,” he wrote to another veteran, “I guess some people find it satisfying to look back and condemn what doctors and others did half a century ago, especially if it lends itself to sensationalized movies, and entitles them to disability pensions.” Read more: www.newyorker.com...

Or how about more recently, the HIV drug experiments on NYC foster children entrusted into children's homes that went on up until 2001:
www.nbcnews.com...
Final report. Quite a contrast..NBC article mentions higher rates of death in children for some of the drugs while Vera says "no children died".
www.vera.org...

It makes the mind bleed. Definitely as you say "useless members of society such as the poor, disabled, minorities of whatever group is currently approved for discrimination". Well except for our soldiers...we're not supposed to consider them useless but I've literally had my jaw drop seeing commentary in regards to stuff like Edgewood that has been utterly dismissive to a soldier having rights at all as if signing up for the military equates to signing away your life anyways. Another good one to look at it in regards to how veterans get treated would be atomic vets. That one has a special place in my heart as my grandfather was an atomic vet with possible radiation exposures between 1944 and 1965: : articles.chicagotribune.com...

A very long report on how it's not feasible to look at the adverse reproductive outcomes of the children of atomic veterans: books.google.com... 4&hl=en&sa=X&ei=RxRbUeryDcSSiALUuoD4Bg&ved=0CHIQ6AEwCTgK


Update on the Guatemalan STD case:

The government successfully argued that because the harm was suffered in a foreign country, and because the Guatemalans have not exhausted other administrative solutions, the United States has sovereign immunity under the Federal Tort Claims Act,

edition.cnn.com...

Of course they were successful. Didn't see that coming a mile away. They almost always are. I, however, can't find any pity in my heart at all for the researchers that are capable of doing such things. The reason being is that, to do such things requires such a defect with compassion and empathy that their behaviors will always be aberrant. I hold zero forgiveness for such mentalities but maybe that's because both of my grandparents died from cancers and my grandmother was subjected to massive EST by the military because she was "neurotic" enough to be worried about getting cancer from radiation exposure (after one of her friends died from cancer, no less). My grandfather used to get so livid talking about the atomic bomb tests. He'd practically spit out the words of how they treated the soldiers "like guinea pigs" and how they "weren't stupid". He said that they (the scientists) knew the effects that radiation had--even back at the Bikini Atoll when he saw them sending in soldiers to collect up their little experiments off the boats that they just bombed. He was in a position to know this by the time he retired beyond a shadow of d. The people that do these things don't deserve pity.

I share that bit not because it makes my family somehow unique. I only wish from the bottom of my heart that it was unique because it's abominable to know that there is no justice in this world when it comes to what the government does and that is has affected hundreds of thousands of families--that's not an exaggeration either.

God bless America, right?