Super Slo Mo Slinky Demonstrates Why a Pole Push Won't Go Faster Than Light.

reply to post by Korg Trinity

if you c ould push a light year long pole with a flag on other end it would take a year for you to be able to see flag move why is this so. it is because even if you pushed the pole a foot all at once it would take a year for the light from the flag to reach back to your location.

Originally posted by pheonix358
There are two forces at work. The bottom of the slinky is held in place by the top of the slinky. When you release the top, the bottom is still held by the 'springiness' of the rest. As the top falls it releases the 'springiness is elasticity) as it falls.

An infinitely dense pole would have no elasticity and thus may move instantly in you example.

P

This is exactly my thought.

Additionally speaking at the atomic level, Elements and Compounds of solid items are created by bonds. There is no elasticity for atoms to move through in a wave format. The pole would move instantly, but you also must remember that the pole at the end is also in its' own current position and this is still only moving as fast as you push it. The pole's end has not gone from here (where your hand is) to there (where the end of the pole is) so you sill haven't beat the speed of light anyway.

Originally posted by ChaoticOrder
reply to post by Korg Trinity

 

but what about electrons?

Would there actually be some sort of wave which caused the electrons at the end of the wire to react later then the electrons at the beginning of the wire? Or would all the electrons begin moving at the same time? Keep in mind electrons are quantum objects... I'm not exactly sure what the answer to this would be but it's much more complex than marbles.

No... there's a bond and what you do to one is done to the other. Atoms are bonded. This would mean that picking up a limestone rock has the potential to throw electrons out of wack and make it radioactive. If atoms separated or smushed together by simple movement of an object, nothing is stable.

Originally posted by ChaoticOrder
reply to post by Biigs

 

The wave is the first electron moving to the next atom and the electron knocked off the atom goes to the next one and so on till it gets to the end after many many electrons have swapped to the next atom. The speed of the wave, i would guess is some where in the neighborhood of the speed of light.

But I don't exactly think it works by each electron knocking the next one forward. The electrical potential exerts some sort of force on all the electrons at the same time... or something like that.

The only thing which might be able to travel faster than the speed of light, would be changing a gravity field - would that be instantly detected a light year away or not?

That's an open question really. We were discussing it along with other related topics just the other day in this thread:
Quantum interaction: 10,000 times faster than light

Exactly... the bond is held regardless. Therefore when you push, the entire bond moves... there's no squishing of objects and a forming of a wave going on. This spring is not a solid object in a straight line and elements are not built like this spring.

The spring: is storing energy thanks to gravity, when the top is let go the top races down with gravity AND energy from in the spring that was stored in it. The bottom of the spring, since theres no fixed point at the top anymore when the spring is let go, gets pulled upwards (which is canceled out by the whole spring accelerating) as the spring collapses to a point where the energy is near used up and the bottom starts to fall faster and faster till it falls the same speed as the top and the spring is fully compact.

how that?

close, or still dumb?

nice video.
but i still got to mention
earlier on this thread someone said, there would be no movement at all until the slinky pinky (whatever) reach the bottom, but if you pay attention there is constant rotation which you can see cleary at 1:26.
for this to work isnt there a need of this rotation or let it put like this, if there were no rotation, the slinky would fall instantly. the slinky fall the (slinky parts begin with the rotation the parts getting pulled together. and this cause some sort of pull until the weight falls over the.. the "point" (cant find the word im looking for^^) and drags the slinky down.

thanks for clarification. =)

On the question of how dense the matter of the pole in my thought experiment would effect the speed of data transfer, I think I need to make it very clear that the more dense the object would be the more 'stuff' there would be for the wave to travel through and thus the wave would be slower.

The following clip demonstrates..



Counter intuitive huh? But true none the less.

Korg.

reply to post by Korg Trinity

"for every action there is always an equal and opposite reaction" - Newtons Law of Motion.

"shredded cabbage and carrots mixed with dressing or mayonnaise" - ColesLaw

Sorry...I couldn't resist.

Originally posted by ColeYounger
reply to post by Korg Trinity

 

"for every action there is always an equal and opposite reaction" - Newtons Law of Motion.

"shredded cabbage and carrots mixed with dressing or mayonnaise" - ColesLaw

Sorry...I couldn't resist.

Yeehahaha

I'll have to remember that one at the next cold food party I go to

Korg.

reply to post by Korg Trinity

On the question of how dense the matter of the pole in my thought experiment would effect the speed of data transfer, I think I need to make it very clear that the more dense the object would be the more 'stuff' there would be for the wave to travel through and thus the wave would be slower.
[...]
Counter intuitive huh? But true none the less.

Sorry to bump this thread after it has been dead for a few weeks but I had to respond to this. As mentioned by another poster I think this would be true until the pole reached infinite density. Once the pole reached infinite density with no gaps it wouldn't allow for any compression. But as Einstein noted it's impossible to push something of infinite mass. This problem is much like the FTL spaceship problem. The faster you make the ship go the heaver it gets. And as the ship gets heaver it takes more and more energy to propel it and to reach the speed of light means the ship must attain an infinite mass and therefore it would require infinite energy to propel it. I don't know that just sort of blew my mind when I thought about it that way.

reply to post by Korg Trinity


"Nothing moves faster than the speed of light".. Thanks for the 100 year old info lol

Originally posted by ziplock9000
reply to post by Korg Trinity

 

"Nothing moves faster than the speed of light".. Thanks for the 100 year old info lol

A bit like giving someone a cup of tea and saying "carefull it's hot!" wish there was a faceplant smiley lol

Originally posted by ChaoticOrder
reply to post by Korg Trinity

 

On the question of how dense the matter of the pole in my thought experiment would effect the speed of data transfer, I think I need to make it very clear that the more dense the object would be the more 'stuff' there would be for the wave to travel through and thus the wave would be slower.
[...]
Counter intuitive huh? But true none the less.

Sorry to bump this thread after it has been dead for a few weeks but I had to respond to this. As mentioned by another poster I think this would be true until the pole reached infinite density. Once the pole reached infinite density with no gaps it wouldn't allow for any compression. But as Einstein noted it's impossible to push something of infinite mass. This problem is much like the FTL spaceship problem. The faster you make the ship go the heaver it gets. And as the ship gets heaver it takes more and more energy to propel it and to reach the speed of light means the ship must attain an infinite mass and therefore it would require infinite energy to propel it. I don't know that just sort of blew my mind when I thought about it that way.

edit on 17/4/2013 by ChaoticOrder because: (no reason given)

The speed of propagation of a mechanical impulse is the speed of sound. The speed of sound in most materials is enormously slower than the speed of light.

A material with a very high speed of sound would be a neutron star, which is extraordinarily dense, being essentially an enormous nucleus. Of course self gravitation makes it extremely spherical.