A question about the Law

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posted on Apr, 10 2013 @ 01:35 PM
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Originally posted by bb23108

Originally posted by AllGloryIsGods
If you truly seek God you will feel the same. You should first humble yourself before him though. Hope this helped. God bless.
I definitely agree that one should be very humble about our situation here, and Jesus' commandments to love are a real reflection that we tend to not be humble!

So Jesus gave these commandments to show us that our activity by tendency is anything but humble - rather it is self-obsessed, unloving, and full of seeking to relieve the pain of all this life. The more we live this way of love the more humble we become because we see how we do not tend to love, and cannot simply love. Thus humbled, we then may be fully surrendered to the Divine in love, and the Divine deeply gifts us further with Love.

One of the ways we have of relieving our suffering in life is to seek for God. But if you recognize the truth of Jesus' way, haven't you already found the Divine? Why keep seeking as though you have not found God - rather than simply and humbly living his commandments of love, thus allowing that whole egoic mechanism of seeking to come to rest, and the Divine to infill you with the Spirit of Love when God sees fit to?
edit on 8-4-2013 by bb23108 because: (no reason given)


Thank you for saying that so beautifully. Now if only all could hear and obey love.




posted on Apr, 10 2013 @ 01:56 PM
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Originally posted by bb23108

Originally posted by sacgamer25
If a man pursues love, Christ is the light/love of this world, than they will find love.
When you say "pursuing love" do you mean living Jesus' commandments of love? If so, can one actually love God fully as Jesus commands if one is only pursuing love rather than recognizing that one is already not separate from Love?

And also, didn't Jesus tell us that we are already (inherently) not separate from the Divine and all others, when he said to love one's neighbor as oneself? Doesn't his second commandment imply that we are not actually separate from all others, and on the basis of this essential recognition of our inherent unity, we are able to simply love our neighbors as our very self?


Originally posted by sacgamer25
Anyone who pursues love will be filled with the Spirit of Love.

When one truly loves God, one is already filled with the Spirit of Love. Simply pursuing love is seeking for it and thereby separating yourself from Love. But, again, if you mean something different by "pursuing love" please elaborate if you please.
edit on 8-4-2013 by bb23108 because: (no reason given)


I believe that God is love. I believe that the pursuit of love, the worship of God/Love only happens when one chooses to love. The correct way to show love is the way the son/love/light/Jesus Christ taught. We are here to serve love. And we will either serve loves purpose through our sin or through our love. The source of our love comes to those who obey. The bible says that love is written on all of our hearts from birth.

So when I say pursue love and you will find it, I know that their is no pursuit of love apart from the source of that love who is the son the Christ.

Anyone who disobeys the message will remain separated from the love of the father. Simply because you can see that there is no separation except the separation caused by man does not mean the father has given eyes to see or ears to hear to anyone else. The bible makes it clear that anyone who is caught up/addicted to sin will not find the love of God in their hearts.

Although the gift is unconditional, recognition only comes to the one who pursues love. Their is no pursuit of love apart from Christ. The only thing we have left is to understand that free will is given for the purpose of love; therefore the only correct way to use our will is to benefit love. The Jews believe in a messianic age on earth, Revelation also speaks of 1000 year time with Christ.

I believe in the Prophets. They all said same thing. If man would ever choose to pursue love/God they would find love/God. Then we could evolve to be love, like Christ.

Anyone who is separate from the fathers love must be separate by the will of the father. Jesus says repentance is the act required to return to the father. Only the father knows when a man is truly repentant. Sin is death, separation from the spirit of life/love, the Holy Spirit.
edit on 10-4-2013 by sacgamer25 because: (no reason given)



posted on Apr, 10 2013 @ 02:09 PM
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Originally posted by jmdewey60
reply to post by sacgamer25
 

. . . I could believe God and repent and pursue him like he asks.
"Seek first the kingdom of God and His righteousness"
Thats what the New Testament says.
You are saying something different, that you are supposed to seek God.
To have that make sense, you make this claim that God = Loves, and by a step of logic that God = Jesus, then follows Jesus = Love.
This is based on a false premise, as all your premises listed in your post, by reading an English translation of a fragment of a text, then using your imagination as to what it means, disregarding the actual Greek language of the original, and its context.
God has acted in a loving way towards mankind by giving His son to save us. That is all it means, if you read it in a responsible way.
Instead, you seem to me to be throwing that to the wind in your enthusiasm to create a false method of salvation based on just imagining the goal is to be God, and that forces God to have to comply based of an interpretation of what you see as a legal contract that you have the power to enforce by force of will.


Jesus said obey two commandments love and love. This is seeking the Kingdome of God. Jesus said the father loves us and forgives us, this is grace. The bible says twice "God is Love". But you keep saying that nothing I say comes from the bible.

The bible is a legal contract, at least that is what God intended. It says anyone who obeys love/ obeys Jesus teaching on love/ will find love. We will become sons of God, no longer bound to our sin but bound instead to the pursuit of love/righteousness. The bible is a contract that states anyone who follows the teaching of Christ will find peace, love and joy. If you pursue love you will find love, this is God's promise that he sent his son to teach us.

So when I say pursue love and you will find it, i may not be creating a new religion for anyone but I am saying what was first said by him.
edit on 10-4-2013 by sacgamer25 because: (no reason given)



posted on Apr, 10 2013 @ 02:37 PM
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reply to post by sacgamer25
 

The bible is a legal contract, at least that is what God intended.
Even if it was a binding contract, it does not leave you free to interpret the terms yourself, however you want.
1 John and the others with it, are a little funny how things are worded.
For example, it says anyone who believes Jesus came in the flesh is not the anti-Christ.
OH . . ?
There are lots of heresies and leadings astray besides whatever group the writer of these epistles was dealing with.
In this "Love" issue, it seems there must have been a group of people pretending to be Christians and spreading false teachings, where to him, the people following his teachings loved each other, while to him, the followers of the 'false' teachers did not act quite so lovingly, according to John's standards.
So his point is, "keep following the 'correct' teachings that I gave you, and then you will exhibit these loving characteristics and all will be well between you and God."
You are turning what John's point was, completely backwards, that somehow if you try to be loving, you will be all good with God.
That is never said.
What is said is that believing 'correctly' will make you 'loving' without trying, because you will just be that way anyway because God will give you the blessing of the spirit, while alternately, God will not to the 'heretics'.
That is what it is all about and you have to read it in its context and not as if it is your private toy to make it into anything you want.
Do you really just want to be a prophet?
My advice to you would be to actually study the Bible in a serious sort of way, for example not reading books by heretical cult members and reading books by reputable professors at accredited universities.
edit on 10-4-2013 by jmdewey60 because: (no reason given)



posted on Apr, 11 2013 @ 06:17 AM
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Originally posted by sacgamer25
Thank you for saying that so beautifully. Now if only all could hear and obey love.



Love is not the law. You must realize the old and new testaments are just that, testaments by man not by God or Jesus. Most of the time they were written by followers of the people who testified and sometimes even later then that. So you cannot take one or two lines from the Bible and base everything on that. Man falls short of the glory of God.

We are far from perfect. One must read the entire context of the Bible to understand what is being said. It will take you a lifetime to learn it and eternity to master it. Having studied the Bible for as long as I have it makes sense in that manner but makes absolutely no sense when someone takes one or two lines and then tries to preach it.

What you are saying is homosexuals, prostitutes, and even adulterers will get into Heaven. By that I mean people who do this until death with out ever repenting and abstaining from their sin. The Bible clearly states one must repent and not go back to sinning. The answer is to ask God to change your heart if you continue to sin.

I have and he has. That's why it really pains me to sin against him. I know I'm hurting my best friend. The person who breathed life into me. The man who made everything. My father that provided everything that I have. I feel as if I am slapping him across the face. This is why I strive so hard not to sin. Its because I do truly love him.



posted on Apr, 11 2013 @ 08:31 AM
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reply to post by AllGloryIsGods
 

I feel as if I am slapping him across the face. This is why I strive so hard not to sin. Its because I do truly love him.
If God protects us, meaning whoever it is who God does, then there is this certain amount of energy expended by God, to help those people.
We "insult" God by countering that good work by God if we are doing harm to those very same people who God is protecting, if we do so through negligent or ill intentioned actions.

We also "insult" Jesus by expecting him to forgive us after he had already given his very life so that you could turn away from sin, but didn't and just continued to behave selfishly without regard for the harm it did to others.
edit on 11-4-2013 by jmdewey60 because: (no reason given)



posted on Apr, 12 2013 @ 10:53 PM
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Originally posted by AllGloryIsGods

Originally posted by sacgamer25
Thank you for saying that so beautifully. Now if only all could hear and obey love.



Love is not the law. You must realize the old and new testaments are just that, testaments by man not by God or Jesus. Most of the time they were written by followers of the people who testified and sometimes even later then that. So you cannot take one or two lines from the Bible and base everything on that. Man falls short of the glory of God.

We are far from perfect. One must read the entire context of the Bible to understand what is being said. It will take you a lifetime to learn it and eternity to master it. Having studied the Bible for as long as I have it makes sense in that manner but makes absolutely no sense when someone takes one or two lines and then tries to preach it.

What you are saying is homosexuals, prostitutes, and even adulterers will get into Heaven. By that I mean people who do this until death with out ever repenting and abstaining from their sin. The Bible clearly states one must repent and not go back to sinning. The answer is to ask God to change your heart if you continue to sin.

I have and he has. That's why it really pains me to sin against him. I know I'm hurting my best friend. The person who breathed life into me. The man who made everything. My father that provided everything that I have. I feel as if I am slapping him across the face. This is why I strive so hard not to sin. Its because I do truly love him.


No what I am saying is the sinner will die in their sin without the knowledge that comes from love. They do not know what happens next. The bible says everything that causes man to sin will be done away with. We can’t be sure what happens to the unrepentant sinner. The only certainty is they will die in their sin.

The one who lives by the righteous decree to love one another will find love, and the knowledge that comes from love. It is love that fills our hearts with the spirit of sonship, the assurance of the everlasting covenant. I will not die, what happens is open to interpretation, but I most certainly believe that I will be resurrected with Christ.

Personally I do believe that everything happens by God’s will and that he is the father of all. So I do believe in a form of universalism. I have never met anyone like Hitler or Stalin so I don’t know if I saw that much evil in one man what I would have to believe but I think Evil of that magnitude is rare and maybe some things were not created to love, even some men.

Who knows anything is possible. The bible leaves many things possible which is why it is fun to debate but we should never consider separating ourselves from loving one another over anything that is not opposed to love.



posted on Apr, 12 2013 @ 11:00 PM
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reply to post by AllGloryIsGods
 


I apologize but this will probably sound self-righteous but I would like an honest answer.

Why do so many people?

First: assume that I lack study time or knowledge of any topic that I speak on.

Second: assume that they understand the bible better than me?

I believe every word of the bible to be directly from the Holy Spirit. I believe it is even possible that some of the writers did not fully understand what they were writing. But people who pick and choose what is or is not the word of God continue to say they understand it more than me.

Either the bible is the word of God and since it is from God than we can trust that the word has not been corrupted.

Or the bible is not the word of God and therefore nothing that is in it could possibly lead anyone to salvation. Since God is not the author we cannot be sure than anything contained in the pages is the truth.

I don’t really see the in-between that so many of you hold on to. But that is up to you.



posted on Apr, 12 2013 @ 11:11 PM
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Originally posted by jmdewey60
reply to post by AllGloryIsGods
 

I feel as if I am slapping him across the face. This is why I strive so hard not to sin. Its because I do truly love him.
If God protects us, meaning whoever it is who God does, then there is this certain amount of energy expended by God, to help those people.
We "insult" God by countering that good work by God if we are doing harm to those very same people who God is protecting, if we do so through negligent or ill intentioned actions.

We also "insult" Jesus by expecting him to forgive us after he had already given his very life so that you could turn away from sin, but didn't and just continued to behave selfishly without regard for the harm it did to others.
edit on 11-4-2013 by jmdewey60 because: (no reason given)


This is what I am saying. I am just taking it one step farther, God loves you even when you disobey. Punishment is the lack of the spirit of love. Repentance always brings back the Holy Spirit. The spirit of sin and the spirit of love, light and darkness, don’t co exist.

The reason it is important to believe Jesus is he is the one that said God is love, or if you refuse to believe that he at least said God loves you. Knowing that God loves you along with the message of the cross that promises resurrection to the repentant spirit allows one to realign with love. Anything less than believing that God loves you may lead you to remain in judgment even after repentance. Believing that God is love simply helps one understand that they truly do find God and love when they pursue love over sin. This is the basis for repentance.

So when I say pursue love and you will find love. I am making the assumption that love itself will teach man that if he truly pursues loving his brother, he will find a way to do it and when he does he will receive in his heart the love for doing whatever loving action he did.

Understanding that God is the source of this love and not man helps you in your pursuit because even when men do not show you love, you still receive love from its source, simply because you choose the righteous path.

This is not against Jesus. This is simply a way of understanding him, and how he wants us to love.



posted on Apr, 13 2013 @ 06:43 PM
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reply to post by sacgamer25
 

. . . you still receive love from its source, simply because you choose the righteous path.
You mean you receive that ability to love others?
It could be that it requires a desire on our part to love others.
We could be listening to someone talk about a better way of life where people care about other people, then am impressed that it does sound like a better way, and would like to be part of it, if you could only have the ability to love like that.
According to my understanding of Paul and his terminology, "Grace" is the part in this scenario where you think, "That sounds pretty good".
The being given the ability to love and be part of that system, that is the next step of justification, being "justified", as in being straightened out.
There are gifts, which is the charisma. One being, Love.
edit on 13-4-2013 by jmdewey60 because: (no reason given)



posted on Apr, 14 2013 @ 05:43 AM
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Originally posted by jmdewey60
reply to post by sacgamer25
 

. . . you still receive love from its source, simply because you choose the righteous path.
You mean you receive that ability to love others?
It could be that it requires a desire on our part to love others.
We could be listening to someone talk about a better way of life where people care about other people, then am impressed that it does sound like a better way, and would like to be part of it, if you could only have the ability to love like that.
According to my understanding of Paul and his terminology, "Grace" is the part in this scenario where you think, "That sounds pretty good".
The being given the ability to love and be part of that system, that is the next step of justification, being "justified", as in being straightened out.
There are gifts, which is the charisma. One being, Love.
edit on 13-4-2013 by jmdewey60 because: (no reason given)


Sure that would be one way to say it. I think I prefer to say you are taught how and why to love others. Sometimes through scripture, sometimes through others, and sometimes through our own trials and tribulations. But all of these things are what bring about the repentant heart that desires to pursue righteousness.

We say the right things but we don’t listen not only to Christ but to ourselves.

Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it. –George Santayana

en.wikiquote.org... - Recommended by me


We have been having religious wars for longer than we can remember. Is it possible that God is telling all of us that war is not the path to love and if religion causes war than maybe we should choose love instead?

I am not saying give up your religion, believe what you want and worship how you want as long as you don’t go against love. If your belief goes against love than you need to change. Love is always the right choice.



posted on Apr, 14 2013 @ 09:08 AM
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reply to post by sacgamer25
 

I think I prefer to say you are taught how and why to love others. Sometimes through scripture, sometimes through others, and sometimes through our own trials and tribulations.
We are humans and live in the world, so that is where the input we get comes from, but understanding it properly and having it be a learning experience is through the assistance from God's spirit that He gives us when we trust in Jesus.
edit on 14-4-2013 by jmdewey60 because: (no reason given)





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