A question about the Law

The Law can be summed up with two simple commandments that Jesus proposed, to love god and to love your neighbor as yourself. Jesus said on more than one occasion that in order to pass to life, you must keep the commandments.

John 15
10 When you obey my commandments, you remain in my love, just as I obey my Father's commandments and remain in his love.

Jesus says in order for you to remain in his love, you must keep his commandments. In other words, keep his commands and you are "saved".

Luke 10
25 On one occasion an expert in the law stood up to test Jesus. “Teacher,” he asked, “what must I do to inherit eternal life?”

26 “What is written in the Law?” he replied. “How do you read it?”

27 He answered, “‘Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your strength and with all your mind’; and, ‘Love your neighbor as yourself.’”

28 “You have answered correctly,” Jesus replied. “Do this and you will live.”

Again, Jesus clearly says that in order to inherit eternal life, you must keep his two commandments.

It makes so much sense too, if we all truly kept his commands and truly loved one another as ourselves, there would be no war, no lies, no murder, etc. There would be peace on Earth and the world would be full of love. Heaven would truly be on Earth.

So my question is this: why do Christians believe that faith is what saves when Jesus clearly says keeping the Law is what saves?

Originally posted by 3NL1GHT3N3D1
So my question is this: why do Christians believe that faith is what saves when Jesus clearly says keeping the Law is what saves?

The blood of the Lamb is what saves.

If the law could save us, Jesus death was for nothing.

Why even STUDY the Word if you don't believe it?

reply to post by Murgatroid


Could you quote a verse where Jesus says that? Paul's letters don't count as Jesus' word.

Because Christians are not followers of the Torah, but followers of the traditions of men. The ignore the very words of the one they say is their messiah. They have even changed his name, and erased the name of his Father from their book. Yet it is by His name that we are saved.

Isaiah 29:13

Wherefore the Lord said, Forasmuch as this people draw near me with their mouth, and with their lips do honour me, but have removed their heart far from me, and their fear toward me is taught by the precept of men:

Originally posted by 3NL1GHT3N3D1
reply to post by Murgatroid

 

Could you quote a verse where Jesus says that? Paul's letters don't count as Jesus' word.

It's all in the four gospels. All you have to do is actually read it, and study it. You'll find few Christians who are going to take the time to give you an in depth answer to a question of this magnitude, when they know you aren't going to accept it anyway.

Jesus was still alive when he made these quotes. When he died on the cross, scripture says that the law was nailed to the cross with him, disarming the enemy. Yes these are Paul's words but the majority of Christians believe that all scripture is inspired by God. That is why Christians say that faith is the necessary component for salvation.

reply to post by micmerci

Matthew 5
18 For truly I tell you, until heaven and earth disappear, not the smallest letter, not the least stroke of a pen, will by any means disappear from the Law until everything is accomplished.

Jesus disagrees that the law would end with his death.

reply to post by Klassified


Feel free to point it out. I've already provided scripture to support my opinion, so I don't think it's too much to ask for.

Originally posted by 3NL1GHT3N3D1
reply to post by micmerci

 

Matthew 5
18 For truly I tell you, until heaven and earth disappear, not the smallest letter, not the least stroke of a pen, will by any means disappear from the Law until everything is accomplished.

Jesus disagrees that the law would end with his death.

You are absolutely correct- the jews are still under the law.

reply to post by micmerci


And Christians aren't? Didn't Jesus say nothing would pass from the law?

reply to post by 3NL1GHT3N3D1


You do realize that the book of Matthew was written for the Jews, don't you? So nothing has changed because all has not been accomplished yet.

Originally posted by 3NL1GHT3N3D1
reply to post by Klassified

 

Feel free to point it out. I've already provided scripture to support my opinion, so I don't think it's too much to ask for.

edit on 31-3-2013 by 3NL1GHT3N3D1 because: (no reason given)

My days of sermons, lessons, and bible studies are over. I gave you a hint. That's as far as I go. You'll find Micmerci to be a knowledgeable and capable Christian. If you can't hear it from a practicing Christian, you certainly aren't going to hear it from an ex-Christian. No matter how well I lay it out. But here's another hint anyway.

"Except ye believe I am he, you shall die in your sins."

Good luck.

reply to post by micmerci


If all hasn't been accomplished then how are Christians exempt from the Law? He didn't say nothing but Christians would pass from the Law did he?

By your logic, Jews are still saved by keeping the Law. What was that about Jesus being the only way again?

reply to post by Klassified


That has nothing to do with his death or resurrection. I believe he was who he said he was, but I don't believe he resurrected. Would that mean that I'm saved then?

Originally posted by 3NL1GHT3N3D1
reply to post by micmerci

 

If all hasn't been accomplished then how are Christians exempt from the Law? He didn't say everything but Christians did he?

By your logic, Jews are still saved by keeping the Law. What was that about Jesus being the only way again?

No, by my logic, no one was ever saved by the keeping of the law. The result of the law is death but the result of grace is salvation. Prior to the death of Christ, no person ever kept the law in it's entirety. That is why it was necessary for the high priests to perform sacrifices for the redemption of sins. It has always been the sacrifice that has brought salvation. The sacrifice of Christ is the final sacrifice for the salvation of all who accept it as such.

But I have to agree with Klassified here, the rift between the gnostic Christians and grace Christians has existed since the day after the first Easter- it will not be settled here on ATS 2000 years later.

reply to post by micmerci


So the billions who lived before Jesus were sent to hell? Why would god implement a Law that he knew would not be kept? Therefore he knew beforehand that he would reject them from heaven and send them to hell. Sounds fair.

If no one is saved by the Law, then what happened to all of the OT prophets? Are they also in hell? Are all the Jews going to hell even though they worship the true god?

Thanks for the reply.

Originally posted by 3NL1GHT3N3D1
reply to post by micmerci

 

And Christians aren't? Didn't Jesus say nothing would pass from the law?

Gentiles were never a party to the law at Mt. Sinai. It was between God and the Hebrews.

reply to post by NOTurTypical


So gentiles were never given the chance to be saved during the Law? That doesn't sound very fair.

reply to post by 3NL1GHT3N3D1

. . . why do Christians believe that faith is what saves when Jesus clearly says keeping the Law is what saves?

They get that from Paul, and it seems Paul's words have been used by unscrupulous theologians to be 'proof texts' for their own salvation theories, without troubling themselves with trying to understand what he meant.

Faith became through Paul's usage of the word, a specific theological term.
What he was saying is very similar to what Jesus was saying, but put a different way, as the new definition was now in effect by the time Paul had his Gospel formulated and was preaching and writing on it.
Where Jesus was picking through the wordage of the old written Law and extracting the fundamental principles, and putting his spirit into it by saying what he thought they meant; Paul was understanding those things as they were now being carried along by Christ's spirit, from Jesus' position and vantage point in heaven.
So to summarize the principle now in play, as understood by Paul: what the Law was before the ascension of Christ, now Faith is, in the new age since Christ began to reign over the earth through those who believed in him.
"Faith" is the spiritual law written on our hearts, by the spirit of God, given to us by Jesus.
You can live a life of Faith, where living for Faith is following those promptings on your conscience to do those things which are right, and you know they are right because the spirit tells you.

reply to post by 3NL1GHT3N3D1


Salvation was always grace through faith, even during the first covenant. Adam, Noah, Abraham, Issac, Jacob, Joseph etc never knew the Mosaic law or the covenant at Mt. Sinai. After the first covenant a Gentile could become a prosthylite. But don't forget the first covenant was broken before Moses even came down from the mountain. And the Lord gives a prophecy in the OT that He will make a new everlasting covenant someday. Christ initiated the new covenant at the last supper.