North Korea Watch 2013-2019

reply to post by Senduko
well that depends on what channel your watching SK Bizmen no talks no entry so says DPRK english.yonhapnews.co.kr... from the link

LEAD) N. Korea denies S. Korean bizmen's entry to Kaesong
SEOUL, April 17 (Yonhap) -- North Korea on Wednesday rejected a request by South Korean businessmen to visit a jointly-run industrial complex in the North's border city of Kaesong to deliver food and check their facilities, Seoul's unification ministry said.

"Pyongyang has sent a notice that it can't agree to (the South Korean businessmen's visit to Kaesong)," the Ministry of Unification said. "It is very regrettable."

there is a lot more, more than one could possibly list
english.yonhapnews.co.kr... but here are the head lines, from the link

more
Yonhap News Summary 04-17 13:30
Japanese envoy urges S. Korea to boost military ties 04-17 12:02
(2nd LD) N. Korea denies S. Korean bizmen entry to Kaesong 04-17 11:56
Park urges end to rewarding N. Korea's bad behavior 04-17 11:55
(LEAD) N. Korea denies S. Korean bizmen's entry to Kaesong 04-17 11:08
(URGENT) N. Korea snubs bizmen's request to visit Kaesong park: unification ministry 04-17 10:43
N. Korea nixes bizmen's request to visit Kaesong 04-17 09:21
(2nd LD) N. Korea not opposed to dialogue, but wants to save face first 04-17 03:54
Obama downplays N. Korea's nuclear warhead technology 04-17 02:41
(LEAD) N. Korea clearly rejects U.S. offer of dialogue 04-17 01:40
Hacking group releases member list of pro-N. Korea sites 04-16 23:26
N. Korea calls U.S. suggest of dialogue a 'deception' 04-16 22:36
N. Korea may be eyeing exit plan as tensions peak: USFK official 04-16 19:23
(LEAD) N. Korea mum on bizmen's request to visit Kaesong 04-16 17:23
Presidential office to hold meeting over possible N.K. provocations 04-16 17:03
(LEAD) Gov't to allow N.K. defectors to be experienced civil servants 04-16 16:27
N. Korean defectors allowed to become experienced civil servants 04-16 16:05
U.S. not mulling special envoy to N. Korea: Seoul 04-16 16:01
N. Korea sends delegation to energy fair in Iran 04-16 15:45
Seoul denies secret contact with N. Korea 04-16 14:33
(LEAD) Kerry's visit to Asia forges 'united front' against N. Korea: ambassador 04-16 14:06
Kerry's visit to Asia forges 'united front' against N. Korea: ambassador 04-16 13:58
N. Korea mum on bizmen's request to visit Kaesong 04-16 13:54
(3rd LD) In 'ultimatum,' N. Korea vows blitz attack on S. Korea 04-16 11:47
Kim Jong-un attends sporting event on founder's birthday 04-16 11:14
Hacking group attacks N.K. Web sites on founder's birthday 04-16 10:46
(2nd LD) Park to hold first summit with Obama on May 7 04-16 10:43
S. Korea eyes extra US$194 mln for defense spending 04-16 10:00
(News Focus) Park, Obama face crucial test on chemistry amid N.K. headache 04-16 09:50
(LEAD) Obama set for May 7 summit with S. Korean leader 04-16 09:11
Obama set for May 7 summit with S. Korean leader 04-16 08:40
(2nd LD) In 'ultimatum,' N. Korea vows blitz attack on S. Korea 04-16 04:00
(LEAD) In 'ultimatum,' N. Korea vows blitz attack on S. Korea 04-16 03:32
In 'ultimatum,' N. Korea urges Seoul to apologize for 'all hostile acts' 04-16 02:16

some of it has been posted, or reworded to get the reader eyes crossed then form Korea Herald , the one that is sure to get things going Kim is now in between a rock and a hard place if he does not act, there could be a coup read this twice for it to sink in www.koreaherald.com...

"Bush advisers have long been worried that a lagging economy could hamper the president's re-election chances. They hope that the Cabinet shake-up will provide a needed jolt. If that doesn't work, North Korea has to go." —Jon Stewart

Very interesting and perhaps insightful qoute.

reply to post by bekod


The 17th has pretty much gone for them over there, so looks like all these medals are for naught...

question: isn't their 'Day of the Sun' being celebrated for 3 days and maybe that's why it's so 'calm' at the moment?

ETA:

Song Hyun Wook, an electric company employee, had to work hard performing songs and dances on the anniversary, but the three-day holiday meant two precious days of rest afterward, he recalled Monday.

Source

------------------------------------------------

Also, I think this is interesting:

Raymond Pritchett ‏@Galrahn 11h
Intel source "no military parade or other major festivities in North Korea Monday may indicate the nation is rationing supplies"

Rationing supplies for what exactly though? War or because they don't have much? I recall some ROK official as saying that there had been an increase of military (vehicles) in and around Pyongyang on Monday and they expected a parade, which never happened. Any news on that?

reply to post by Zerschmetterling
to your Question yes it is the 25th is also a big day for them it is in one of my post in this thread, as for news up date www.koreaherald.com...

Park, Obama: North Korea will not be rewarded



Published : 2013-04-17 20:53
Updated : 2013-04-17 21:05
South Korean and U.S. leaders on Wednesday hardened their stances against North Korea after the communist country rebuffed their dialogue offer while escalating tensions.

President Park Geun-hye reaffirmed her resolve not to reward North Korea’s saber-rattling, urging an end to the “vicious circle” of blackmail, negotiations and economic assistance.

U.S. President Barack Obama left the door open for talks with North Korea but vowed not to give in to the “same kind of pattern” that doomed negotiations to denuclearize Pyongyang.

On the same day, the bellicose regime rejected a request by South Korean business executives to enter the joint industrial park in Gaeseong to deliver food and check on their factories.

that it for now back later with more

reply to post by Gazrok
Good one

Now that "the days of sun" are over, now is time to watch to see what happens, Un has no food to feed his people, no one is making war moves as he promised, he has put his head in hangman's noose and some or something is going to kick the stool out from under him. He has to make war, or be ready for a coup, for one or the other or both are coming.

reply to post by bekod


I don't think he really believed we'd wait him out. The longer it goes, the more nervous he's going to get...and whether that will make him fold or put him in a fit, nobody really knows. Of course, it is difficult to have hungry soldiers follow your orders. He has to do something soon, fight or capitulate, or he's going to find himself the victim of his own military. The more time goes on, the hungrier they get....

reply to post by Gazrok
I agree in searching for a link between DPRK and the current events in Boston, and DC, the ricin letters, i found this little tidbit www.chinadaily.com.cn...
from the link

Pakistan nuke scientist asks forgiveness
(Agencies)
Updated: 2004-02-05 08:38

Pakistan nuke scientist asks forgiveness
Dr. Abdul Qadeer Khan, left, founder of Pakistan's nuclear program, meets President Gen. Pervez Musharraf at the presidential palace in Rawalpindi, Pakistan, Wednesday, Feb. 4, 2004, released by Press Information Department. [AP]

The founder of Pakistan's nuclear program apologized in a nationally televised address Wednesday for spreading weapons secrets to three nations.

The government said Abdul Qadeer Khan asked President Gen. Pervez Musharraf for forgiveness for selling atomic technology to Iran, Libya and the Democratic People's Republic of Korea (DPRK).

"I have chosen to appear before you to offer my deepest regrets and unqualified apologies," Khan said in a solemn speech broadcast on state television. "I take full responsibility for my actions and seek your pardon."

Intelligence officials, speaking on condition of anonymity, said there was an agreement not to prosecute Khan, who agreed to cooperate with investigators and give them all the required information for their probe into the nuclear transfers.

A friend of the scientist said Tuesday that Khan told him he gave nuclear weapons technology to other countries with the full knowledge of top army officials, including Musharraf.

But Khan said government officials were not involved in the leaks.

"I also wish to clarify that there was never ever any kind of authorization for these activities by the government," he said.

the is the proof that DPRK has the Nuke weapons tech from Pakistan.

so what kind of Nukes does Pakistan have? The same type DPRK has tested www.fas.org... form the link

DEVICE DATE YIELD
[announced] YIELD
[estimated]
[boosted device?] 28 May 1998 25-36 kiloton total 9-12 kiloton
Fission device 28 May 1998 12 kiloton
Low-yield device 28 May 1998 sub-kiloton --
Low-yield device 28 May 1998 sub-kiloton --
Low-yield device 28 May 1998 sub-kiloton --
Fission device 30 May 1998 12 kiloton 4-6 kiloton
Fission device not detonated 12 kiloton --
This table lists the nuclear tests that Pakistan claims to have carried out in May 1998 as well as the announced yields. Other sources have reported lower yields than those claimed by Pakistan. The Southern Arizona Seismic Observatory reports that the total seismic yield for the May 28th tests was 9-12 kilotons and that the yield for the May 30th tests was 4-6 kilotons.

you wanted a smoking gun , well it is loaded as well.

reply to post by Gazrok
Then the less hold Un has over them, he needs to have control to have them follow him, if he dose not have that then there is going to be a coup. DPRK will not stand for a do nothing leader no matter what the tough talk is, if he can act and act soon they will find someone who will. Food is the biggest mover of men, and that is one thing they are short of, but he South has plenty of. China now has the leverage to bring Un to his senses will they use it?
english.yonhapnews.co.kr... form the link

Kerry: China, key to President Park's campaign to reach out to Pyongyang
By Lee Chi-dong
WASHINGTON, April 17 (Yonhap) -- U.S. Secretary of State John Kerry said Wednesday North Korea would collapse without China's assistance as he stressed the importance of getting Beijing behind efforts to denuclearize Pyongyang.

"I think it's fair to say that without China, North Korea would collapse," he said at a congressional hearing.

The senator, who has long followed North Korea, especially when he was a senator, pointed out that China provides almost three-quarters of North Korea's fuel.

"China is a significant banking conduit for the North," he told the House Foreign Affairs Committee. "China provides significant food aid to the North. Therefore I think it's important for us to work with China. And I think China has indicated its willingness to work with us."

Kerry traveled to Beijing, Seoul and Tokyo last week on his first trip to the region as Washington's top diplomat.

He said China's role is also important to South Korean President Park Geun-hye's efforts to reach out to North Korea, a policy aimed at building a trust-based dialogue process on the peninsula.

"She obviously can't do that in the middle of this kind of process," Kerry said. "My hope would be that the Chinese will come to the table in a way that they never have before."

The U.S. and China can work together to "redefine what's in all of our interests, which is a kind of stability," he said.

"And that could ultimately even open up the possibility of President Park's outreach to be able to have an impact," he added.

Kerry is known for longstanding support for talks with North Korea, but he made clear Washington would break the cycle of Pyongyang's provocations followed by talks and hasty deals on incentives.

"We're not going down the same old road. We're not going to reward them and come to the table and get into some food deal without some pretty ironclad concept of how we're going forward on the denuclearization," Kerry said.

He would not describe the Obama administration's North Korea strategy as "strategic patience."

"I'd call it strategic impatience," he said.

[email protected]
[email protected]
(END)

China is giving DPRK the fuel and food they need, if that is cut off then the DPRK will Collapse under it own weight.

this might be the last post on this thread no one seems to care any more , reading about Un this and Un that, SK does this or does that when there is no act of war it was history but then it is History over there here are a few head lines, and links first up the laugh of they day KCNA

NDC Policy Department Clarifies Stand over U.S., S. Korea's Call for Dialogue

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Korean / English / Chinese / Spanish / Japanese
Pyongyang, April 18 (KCNA) -- The Policy Department of the National Defence Commission (NDC) of the DPRK released a statement Thursday clarifying the principled stand of the DPRK over the U.S. and the south Korean authorities' rhetoric about dialogue.
The statement says in part:
The U.S. and the south Korean puppet regime should take a bold decision of taking the following practical measures if they want to shirk the historical responsibility for the prevailing grave situation on the Korean Peninsula and evade sledge-hammer retaliatory blows of the army and people of the DPRK and if they truly stand for dialogue and negotiations:
First, they should immediately stop all their provocative acts against the DPRK and apologize for all of them.
As the first phase, they should take measures of retracting the UN Security Council's "resolutions on sanctions" cooked up under absurd pretexts.
They should bear in mind that doing so would be a token of good will towards the DPRK.
The south Korean puppet forces should promptly halt all anti-DPRK rackets being kicked up by them, linking their own mishaps such as the Cheonan warship sinking incident and the "March 20 hacking case" to the north.
Second, they should give formal assurances before the world that they would not stage again such nuclear war drills to threaten or blackmail the DPRK.
Dialogue can never go with war actions.
Frequent nuclear war maneuvers will only strain the situation and totally block the way of dialogue.
The army and people of the DPRK will not be taken in by sophism that the nuclear war drills being staged under its very nose are annual and defensive military actions for defending the U.S. and guaranteeing the security of south Korea.
Third, they should make a decision to withdraw all nuclear war means from south Korea and its vicinity and give up their attempt to reintroduce them as their immediate duty.
They should bear in mind that the denuclearization of the Korean Peninsula can begin with the pullout of the nuclear war means introduced by the U.S. and this may lead to the global denuclearization.
The chief of Chongwadae should not forget that the prospect of south Korea may be rosy when the DPRK's nukes are considered as a property common to the nation but south Korea is bound to go to ruin when it remains under the U.S. nuclear umbrella.
The situation on the peninsula is directly linked with peace and security in Northeast Asia and the rest of the world.
The army and people of the DPRK together with the world peace-loving people who sympathize with justice and value conscience will closely follow the future behavior of the U.S. and its followers. -0-

next up Japan shoot down missile order in place till July www3.nhk.or.jp... Last but not least an other good laugh from DPRK as told by english.yonhapnews.co.kr... from the link

2013/04/18 10:43 KST
text size plustext size minusprintsend twittersend facebooksend msn
N.K. warns it will never engage in talks if Seoul seeks hostile acts
SEOUL, April 18 (Yonhap) -- North Korea warned Thursday that it will never engage in inter-Korean talks if South Korea continues to pursue hostile actions.

The statement released by the Committee for the Peaceful Reunification of Korea comes after Pyongyang rejected calls for talks by both South Korea and the United States earlier in the week. The country also threatened to attack the South for insulting its leadership.

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(END)

well there it is no war, no Un dead, no coup, but if they do come to be , then .... if the web is up... post

Rest of Asia N Korea demands end of sanctions if US wants dialogue

North Korea demanded on Thursday the removal of UN sanctions imposed for its nuclear and missile tests and a US pledge not to engage in "nuclear war practice" with South Korea if Washington truly sought dialogue. "If the United States and the puppet South have the slightest desire to avoid the sledge-hammer blow of our army and the people ... and truly wish dialogue and negotiations, they must make the resolute decision," the North's National Defence Commission said in a statement. "Firstly, the sanctions resolutions by the UN Security Council that were fabricated with unjust reasons must be withdrawn," the North's top military body said in a statement carried by the official KCNA news agency.

www.hindustantimes.com...
Nothing they hadn't hinted at before, but still put it here for sake of documenting it.
Doesn't look like either side are willing to compromise what the other side really wants. We only want to talk if they give up the nukes, they only want to talk if we lift sanctions whilst letting them keep the nukes. Neither side is going to agree to the others demands anytime soon.

ok so one more post on this SK asked for a US aid in helping it build up defenses, like we can pay for that , then they say they will buy 36 Apache helicopters for 1.6 billion US dollars, so is this not just giving it to them , we pay them so they can pay us US?? we not just here have them for free oh that's to easy to do got to make it look like your buying them. linky to story www.koreaherald.com...

I think we should send NK a bill for all of our taxpayer dollars used to move troops and equipment. Then we can foreclose on them and evict them.

Originally posted by PutAQuarterIn
Rest of Asia N Korea demands end of sanctions if US wants dialogue

North Korea demanded on Thursday the removal of UN sanctions imposed for its nuclear and missile tests and a US pledge not to engage in "nuclear war practice" with South Korea if Washington truly sought dialogue. "If the United States and the puppet South have the slightest desire to avoid the sledge-hammer blow of our army and the people ... and truly wish dialogue and negotiations, they must make the resolute decision," the North's National Defence Commission said in a statement. "Firstly, the sanctions resolutions by the UN Security Council that were fabricated with unjust reasons must be withdrawn," the North's top military body said in a statement carried by the official KCNA news agency.

www.hindustantimes.com...
Nothing they hadn't hinted at before, but still put it here for sake of documenting it.
Doesn't look like either side are willing to compromise what the other side really wants. We only want to talk if they give up the nukes, they only want to talk if we lift sanctions whilst letting them keep the nukes. Neither side is going to agree to the others demands anytime soon.

So the West has an easy way out! But they will not take it.

You have to ask, who does actually want this war! Lots of $$$$$$$$ to me made here folks.

P

Originally posted by pheonix358

Originally posted by PutAQuarterIn
Rest of Asia N Korea demands end of sanctions if US wants dialogue

North Korea demanded on Thursday the removal of UN sanctions imposed for its nuclear and missile tests and a US pledge not to engage in "nuclear war practice" with South Korea if Washington truly sought dialogue. "If the United States and the puppet South have the slightest desire to avoid the sledge-hammer blow of our army and the people ... and truly wish dialogue and negotiations, they must make the resolute decision," the North's National Defence Commission said in a statement. "Firstly, the sanctions resolutions by the UN Security Council that were fabricated with unjust reasons must be withdrawn," the North's top military body said in a statement carried by the official KCNA news agency.

www.hindustantimes.com...
Nothing they hadn't hinted at before, but still put it here for sake of documenting it.
Doesn't look like either side are willing to compromise what the other side really wants. We only want to talk if they give up the nukes, they only want to talk if we lift sanctions whilst letting them keep the nukes. Neither side is going to agree to the others demands anytime soon.

So the West has an easy way out! But they will not take it.

You have to ask, who does actually want this war! Lots of $$$$$$$$ to me made here folks.

P

yes an "easy way out", ever notice how the easy way of doing something just makes more problems? in this case taking the "easy way out" by lifting sanctions while letting the NK's keep their nukes would have VERY serious repercussions. first and foremost it would be a BIG VICTORY for little kimmy whine whine and the government of North Korea. a victory that while cementing little kimmy's power would also just enforce the idea that with a few threats that NK will get their way. in the future it would mean more threats and talk of throwing nukes around unless they get their way. this would also be great propaganda for NK to show their citizens, "see how powerful we are, we just have to TELL the world what we want and we will get it, no one can stand against the might of the mighty North Korea". this is rather like giving in to a child throwing a temper tantrum, which will only cause more temper tantrums later to get their way.

just like with a temper tantrum throwing child, the way to deal with NK is to stand firm to teach them that a temper tantrum will not get them their way.

one thing that you seemed to have missed is that if not an "easy way" to deal with this, that NK does have a way to end it. get rid of the nukes and stop trying to make more and better nukes. not easy by far since little kimmy has firmly attached his coat tails to nuclear arms, which could hurt him and his power by getting rid of them. but yet if he were to do that them "poof" the sanctions would start to lift. that is the whole point of sanctions, it is the "carrot" while military action is the "stick". now if only NK would strive to get the carrot, then their would be no reason to use the stick against him. sadly tho kimmy and NK seem to want the carrot GIVEN to them without doing anything to deserve it.

reply to post by generik


I am bloody sick of this crap attitude. It stinks to high heaven.

The US Government can give/allow Israel Nukes, estimated at 200 - 300 but NK can't have 1.

Why, because the US says so.

How many posters who are from the US keep saying the US should just Nuke NK. I for one do not, and never will trust the US with thousands of Nukes.

Get real. The vast majority of the problems in this world for the last half century have been caused by the US and by Russia. Take theirs away first.

The Non Proliferation Treaty has sections in it that the US has never abided by.

What is good for the goose is good for the gander. Jeez. Sick and tired of the double standards.

P

Originally posted by pheonix358
reply to post by generik

 

I am bloody sick of this crap attitude. It stinks to high heaven.

The US Government can give/allow Israel Nukes, estimated at 200 - 300 but NK can't have 1.

Why, because the US says so.

How many posters who are from the US keep saying the US should just Nuke NK. I for one do not, and never will trust the US with thousands of Nukes.

Get real. The vast majority of the problems in this world for the last half century have been caused by the US and by Russia. Take theirs away first.

The Non Proliferation Treaty has sections in it that the US has never abided by.

What is good for the goose is good for the gander. Jeez. Sick and tired of the double standards.

P

Funny I'm sick of emo bitchin from people who LIVE off these actions and simply never stand up

The land your living on is aboriginal.... why don't you leave?

Most of the food you eat is grown on their land no?

How come you don't live in North Korea then? Do you presume to think without us there would be an Australia? Please tell me how so... I suppose you would have held off the Japanese with all 7 Million people at the time? 5 Million women and children eh?

Perhaps it is okay if south korea would have fell.... ever look at the people of south korea vs north korea... one people can not leave their homes, the other smiles and makes music and are happy and love life.... the other lives in fear. The streets are empty

Maybe you think that is from our sanctions? If so, why did Russia and China reform certainly they had far more resource to maintain that miserable system if it worked no?

Where would Australia be if Japan and Korea and SE Asia went to the Marxists?

We wont try to pretend that China and Russia would have left Japan alone after Korea will we? Particularly after WW2?

And Israel... your life would be better if Islams only doorstep was Europe yes? No America No Israel and Communist Russia halfway through Germany still.... All of Asia Marxist to your doorstep and Islam...exporting people.

Lets say Australia remained neutral somehow, was still a Democracy, where would your food and oil come from? Hyper escalated prices from the ME? Would they sell you Oil and Food at all or would you be like Cuba and North Korea...starved, broke and desperate as the last holdouts of a dead system?

Perhaps you think Australia would grow all it's own food... Maybe it would... on that aboriginal land eh? And that situation is much fairer than Israel Palestine eh? Except well... there are 1.5 Billion Muslims in the world for them to go blend in with, unlike the Aborigines who... are alone, not unlike the Jews....by culture. And well... at least Israel can make a valid claim to the land, there is historical basis they were kicked out... Australians... well...

Life is fair huh? Tribal coexists with modern society eh? It wasn't going to be Communism or Capitalism for the globe right? We could have stood back and they wouldn't have done exactly the same? Islam has borders eh?

And there you are on your aboriginal lands... chirping away on the internet stuffing your face with food either grown on natives soil or shipped in via sea lanes protected by the Usa's Navy, living with a few Million Less Muslims than you would be, filling your car with Gas, living under a democracy..... Bitchin

You know who's not bitching?

South Koreans... they came within an inch of living in a totalitarian State... They are singing and dancing and smiling

This is a video, about the most impartial one I could find. Red Cross.

The blame goes all to the West But there are a few poignant moments in this video.

There is a moment when the fact that there is no outside communication allowed and I am the first one to criticize our system and what sucks about it... at this point and time for all the talk of lies and deception etc... I can speak to people and visit anywhere in the world and form my own opinions.

A second moment that speaks volumes is watching children march in martial fashion, I don't recall actually seeing this anywhere but Nazi Germany otherwise, In our system we debate and yell about the silliest of intrusions of govt into our children's thoughts, there children march.

Of course the poverty and the rest you can blame the USA for....

But there at the end is a bridge into China... fully illuminated into a dark land.... The bridge is to China, North Koreas only friend... supposedly....

There is the Power cable running right to the border... and this to me is the most Poignant aspect to the whole situation....

The Power runs to the border.... It's not allowed in.

The wires are right there for internet.... it's not allowed in

The Red Cross sits in the city, the Text Books would be there.... they are Not allowed in

You freak out about us? The leadership allows it's people nothing. It is not US The LEADERSHIP chooses a strict and harsh life for the people a life of obedience, servitude, struggle a TRUE life of mind control.

And here is South Korea, Seoul

You can sit here and compare us to Rome as your ilk does, but the truth, compare us to Greece under Alexander, we do not take peoples freedom of choice, you join the empire you live well, your culture is preserved 100% in Alexandrian fashion, you become wealthy, you eat, you shop, your happy. No one has lost their religion, no ones culture was stripped for falling in on the side of the USA the women were not ravaged, you read, you think and you do as you please for the most part.

These streets are busy, these people are thriving, Seoul... in contrast to North Korea is the Most Wired City in the world 99% of South Koreans can dial in and talk to anyone they like to see if they are being lied to.

All politicians lie... corruption is as old as mankind itself... fundamental issues of life will always exist.

But the system itself is free.... We are not in some Matrix, we are allowed to choose to be if we wish to, to blindly follow a religion and disbelieve evolution, to drop out of school... to make mistakes.... and YES we have problems because of that, but in the end the choice is there.

What complainers on ats call... loss of freedom amounts to things as ridiculous and YES highly debatable as... possessing a Gun in public or being checked for bombs before boarding a plane..or getting wasted and driving.... all things that socially in the end are really, really borderline....

We debate the RIGHT to Kill ourselves in stupidity, to endanger others.... and people are Angry call these things loss of freedom and bash our system? In North Korea... You can't read a book to have what to debate in the first place

So the Life of Pyonyang? or the Life of Seoul?

Yeah.... worth fighting for, worth dying for, worth protecting. And You Live it in Australia as a result Buddy