Quantum interaction: 10,000 times faster than light

Originally posted by ImaFungi

Originally posted by Spectral Norm
There are two things that I find very strange about quantum mechanics, and this after years of study of the technical details and especially the mathematical formalism:

1. Quantum mechanics forces one into making a choice between determinism and locality. That is, if you want a theory with nice local interactions, finite signal speeds, etc., then you have to give up the idea that physical quantities are deterministic. Or, if you want a theory that has nice deterministic features, e.g., the electron has a momentum even if we don't measure it, then you have to give up on locality. You can't have both. Most physicists seem to prefer locality. But this creates a problem:

I think it has to do with the massive amounts of bits of information or particles in every square cm of the universe, and these all have their own masses, plus physical details like velocity and angular momentum, and these values flux minutely or greatly every pico second and planks length. And they are all traveling through space and time, though at relatively different velocities, yet there has arisen a macro stability, an upper bound of potential things the lesser parts can interact to create, on a major macro scale that is prevalent, galaxies, stars, planets, on a micro scale that is seen with the consistent formulation of atoms, and then somewhere in the middle chemistry and biology get to be really complex.

But yea, I think the only reason the universe cant have deterministic features, is because it is computing using the physical variables in real time, and every bit has to respond to every other bit at every moment, and they do this at different speeds, so they move every which way, and it is really a bit of chaos at that level. But at the same time, I will say that it is deterministic because I am under the impression that only consciousness can make a choice. That means that all inanimate material, particles, everything, is determined to do exactly what it is doing at exactly every moment by everything else that can physically effect it in its local area, since the conditions of the pre big bang/big bang.

that sounds very close to string theory with parts of the holographic universe mixed in,
strangely enough it would solve the entanglement problem


interesting
xploder

Originally posted by ErtaiNaGia
reply to post by rickymouse

 

Relativists always back peddle when some new discovery proves einstein wrong...

They are like the Climate change Fundamentalists.

i dont think this outcome proves anyone wrong,
more like it points to a quantum theory of gravity,

if we were in the atom and we were at the same time scale of the electrons,
would we too look at the electrons and think that their motion was the fastest thing in the universe?

xploder

correction i stated that newtons laws were all that would be required to get to the moon and land a lander on mars,
i was incorrect and it would require kelpers laws of motion to achieve these feats of engineering.

xploder

reply to post by XPLodER


The article clearly states that 10'000 FTL is the lower limit. The exact speed is totally unknown. It might as well be instantaneous. They don't know and likely won't know for a long time

Just by looking at the evidence we are provided by with our surroundings, one thing really stands out to me. Atoms and solar systems resemble each other. Lots of people have noticed this simple fact. One other observation I never hear anyone bring up is on even a grander scale, galaxies. I think one of the clues to how gravity works is by looking at spiral galaxies.

I'm not a scientist just an observer. You would think galaxies would look like giant donuts with the solar system, atom model. They don't tho.

Originally posted by AllIsOne
reply to post by XPLodER

 

The article clearly states that 10'000 FTL is the lower limit. The exact speed is totally unknown. It might as well be instantaneous. They don't know and likely won't know for a long time

so do you think the sun would leave its orbit instantly?
or
after 8 mins
or
continue without changing orbit?

xploder

Originally posted by litterbaux
Just by looking at the evidence we are provided by with our surroundings, one thing really stands out to me. Atoms and solar systems resemble each other. Lots of people have noticed this simple fact. One other observation I never hear anyone bring up is on even a grander scale, galaxies. I think one of the clues to how gravity works is by looking at spiral galaxies.

I'm not a scientist just an observer. You would think galaxies would look like giant donuts with the solar system, atom model. They don't tho.

i found an interesting article that fits with you galaxy donut atom model,

Don't freak out, but our galaxy might be surrounded by 2,000 rogue black holes

According to a computer simulation by Valery Rashkov and Piero Madau at UC Santa Cruz, a shocking number of these abandoned black holes might be found in the Milky Way's halo, which is a giant outlying region of gas found beyond our galaxy's stars. There's considerable variance in terms of just how many black holes are out there -- Rashkov and Madau place the number of black holes between as low as 70 and and as high as 2,000.

io9.com...

this is just a simulation but if there was 2000 black holes around the milkyway galaxy,
it might look like the picture of the electron around the atom

xploder

reply to post by XPLodER


Your thought experiment reminded me of this video which illustrates how the earth and solar system moves right along with the sun at 70,000km/hr.

reply to post by litterbaux

I think the key to the spiral galaxy setup is so that all objects within it never travel through the same space, ever, where motion through the quantum vacuum of space is the means by which the Zero Point Field records everything that's ever happened in spacetime.

There is now a conflict between western and eastern sciences.. The secret science is now being brought out by the Chinese and Russians.. breaking the silence.

Interesting side note : CERN's name is nothing more than a twist on Telsa's calculation (ie C= E/R) which breaks the concept that the speed of light is constant ..

Originally posted by NewAgeMan
reply to post by XPLodER

 

Your thought experiment reminded me of this video which illustrates how the earth and solar system moves right along with the sun at 70,000km/hr.

hello my good friend,
happy Easter to you

you certainly hit the nail on the head!

the sun is not stationary and we are "following" the sun in our orbit,
so if the sun was to blink out of existence in a picosecond,
the earth would spiral off its orbit instantly because it is part of a more complex system of motion.

we are so confused by the complex nature of our understanding or lack of understanding of gravity,
that we have forgotten to add the motion of the sun through the galaxy,
and when you view the video you have provided, it becomes obvious that our LR GR and SR understandings of gravity bear very little resemblance to the actual motions of the planets orbiting the sun.

gravity must act at an instant or near instant speed or the sun would out pace the planets and our planet would orbit further and further away from the sun.

even taking into account the helo sphere that surrounds our solar system,
the spiralling motion of the planets shows us there is more to this than what Einstein postulated,

a curved space time doesn't propagate in forward spacetime in a way that explains the motion we see in the animation.

the flat plane explanation of mass causing a "warp" in static space time is a one dimensional construct
and does not take into account the direction of travel of the sun or the planets





there are other factors to take into account,
the charge potential difference between the planets, as in the needle video,



the medium density of the solar wind



Bernoulli's Principle



Vesicles orbiting in a toroidal electrohydrodynamic flow

if you add these principals together and add angular momentum,



Foucault's pendulum

and the gyroscopic stabilization effect and orbits



if we take into account these different types of interactions and the different way the forces interact,
do we really need something as crude as warped space time to explain why the planets follow the sun?



xploder

Hi guys was reading your thread found it very interesting, I'm not a professor or anything and my limited quantum physics skills my warrant me being Flamed here for this post, but anyway here my thoughts.

almost all of ya agreed that gravity is beyond 3 dimensions. i think time was the 4rth, the other 6 don't matter here i assume, but if this is true then there no reason for gravity to be slower then light because it supersedes time there for can not be measured by time you can't say gravity is this fast, because it's not a speed it's a constant, think about trying to view the 3rd from the 2nd you'd only see the one plane there for there is not way to actually measure the 3rd using standard definition of your dimension, probably why gravity is so confusing.Even with the "Cosmic speed limit" that still 3 dimensions if gravity exists in the 4rth that there no reason for time to even matter for exists across time there for being relatively instant in it "speed"

1st dimension a thread on your bed 2nd is the top of your bed or the sheets the Mattress is the 3rd dimension, but your Blankets are the 4rth they wrap around everything and exist covering the whole bed, regardless of where you lay, you don't affect the blankets you are under them,

anyway i was pretty much just spouting my mind so feel free to prove me wrong, but it's just a thought,

reply to post by XPLodER

i dont think this outcome proves anyone wrong,
more like it points to a quantum theory of gravity,

FTL information transfer?

This isn't forbidden by General Relativity?

Originally posted by XPLodER

Fuzzy thinking galore.

sorry if im not as precise as the thread deserves

The Sun does not move with respect to the Earth. The phrase "Where the Sun was" is meaningless in this context. The Sun is where it is, from our perspective, constantly.

well its about 2 arc seconds difference (approx) from where the sun appairs to be (apparent position)
to where the sun actually is (actual position) ie it takes 8 mins for the light to reach us and in that time the sun has moved by approx 2 arc seconds.

No, the Earth has rotated by about 2 arc seconds. The Sun has not moved.

Harte

Originally posted by ErtaiNaGia
reply to post by XPLodER

 

i dont think this outcome proves anyone wrong,
more like it points to a quantum theory of gravity,

FTL information transfer?

This isn't forbidden by General Relativity?

Even if the GR speed limit is real this FTL information transfer doesn't appear to violate it because nothing is actually moving that fast, it's just "information".

This is the kind of stuff where Quantum physics gets metaphysical because you start to ask questions like "how fast does thought travel? What is thought? What is consciousness?" and so on.

I'm glad a previous poster said that the article states 10k C is the minimum, probably because that is the limit of their equipment for the experiment.

Here's a thought-

The obvious applications for Quantum Entanglement is instant communications. And INHERENTLY SECURE communications. (no wires, no radio waves)

I wholeheartedly believe (no proof?) that "we" are already using QE Communications in military applications. Say a drone pilot is stationed in Virginia, but we need to service some targets in a war zone on the other side of the world. That would be laggy with normal communications - but if we had QUANTUM communications... now the possibilities are endless.

Realtime comms to mars rovers. Deep Space asteroid mining - in real time. Revolutionize the internet.

Originally posted by AllIsOne
The article clearly states that 10'000 FTL is the lower limit. The exact speed is totally unknown. It might as well be instantaneous. They don't know and likely won't know for a long time

Yeah, the upper limit would be the speed of light squared. Or 34.5 billion miles per second. Which still works under Einstein's Theories, of course. Already sent a letter off to FermiLab over a year ago about this.

Originally posted by Jubosh
Hi guys was reading your thread found it very interesting, I'm not a professor or anything and my limited quantum physics skills my warrant me being Flamed here for this post, but anyway here my thoughts.

almost all of ya agreed that gravity is beyond 3 dimensions. i think time was the 4rth, the other 6 don't matter here i assume, but if this is true then there no reason for gravity to be slower then light because it supersedes time there for can not be measured by time you can't say gravity is this fast, because it's not a speed it's a constant, think about trying to view the 3rd from the 2nd you'd only see the one plane there for there is not way to actually measure the 3rd using standard definition of your dimension, probably why gravity is so confusing.Even with the "Cosmic speed limit" that still 3 dimensions if gravity exists in the 4rth that there no reason for time to even matter for exists across time there for being relatively instant in it "speed"

1st dimension a thread on your bed 2nd is the top of your bed or the sheets the Mattress is the 3rd dimension, but your Blankets are the 4rth they wrap around everything and exist covering the whole bed, regardless of where you lay, you don't affect the blankets you are under them,

anyway i was pretty much just spouting my mind so feel free to prove me wrong, but it's just a thought,

There are some mathematical theories that can predict how many dimensions the universe really has. Some clues are that the strength of a magnetic field actually decreases according to one over distance cubed, while gravity decreases according to one over distance squared.

There's the Gauge Theory of gravity (en.wikipedia.org...), along with a mathematical concept called, spin tensors, spinors and torsion. Depending on how many dimensions there are, rotations of objects would be constrained. For flatlanders in 2 dimensions, there is only one fundamental rotation axis, but it would be beyond their comprehension. For us 3D creatures, there are three fundamental rotation axii, but a rotation in any one axis, preserves coordinates in that axis. There are concepts of rotation in four dimensions with quaternions.

arxiv.org...

Wonderfull post thank you, so there is a infinitissimal delay and interaction between twisted photon's therefore is not instantaneous, if verified then some fundamental quantumne model's will have to be revised.

reply to post by djmarcone


Excuse me... was I talking to you?

reply to post by PhoenixOD


Gravity, Hmm,.
Imagine three sheet's of paper, the bottom is wet and stuck to the middle sheet which you can envisage as a pourus or blotting paper that the water come's through on top of this is another layer were the water can not so easily penetrate and that is looser, now substitute the water for the force of gravity and let's call the bottom sheet subspace remember it follow's the contour's of the middle sheet and let's call the middle sheet space and the upper sheet hyperspace (I am just using these name's in my crude membrane analogy),.
See the water flow's evenly all through space at a fixed rate but were space is twisted and convoluted i.e. the super field is scrunched into matter and varying density's throughout space, were it is twisted like this the amount of gravity a constant in space is also compressed into a tighter area so area wise it has a much higher throughput of subspace gravity field not because it is not constant throughout the entire universe as a weak field with an undefined (in this argument) relationship to time but because it flow's or is present at a constant rate were space is compressed into denser and denser area's matter or singularity's it is likewise concentrated into a smaller and smaller area creating denser gravity field's this does mean that even empty space has a weight but it is infinitesimal and why does it not collapse under this weight, well maybe the answer lie's at the zero point fluctuation's and time itself.