Quantum interaction: 10,000 times faster than light

reply to post by XPLodER


Well the way I see it, if superposition, wave/particle duality, etc happens when we observe, then it must always be happening. The only way I can figure to processed, is to start with a unified solution and then rework what we know into that.

But yeah, who says the sun doesn't superposition all the time and the orbit is just something to make us have nite and day? orbit makes it not too hot and not too cold. lol :throws hands in air: Must be God.

reply to post by PhoenixOD

2. Does GR really reduce to Newtonian gravity in low-velocity, weak-field limit?
As we have already noted, Newtonian gravity propagates with unconditionally infinite speed. How, then, can GR reduce to Newtonian gravity in the weak-field, low-velocity limit? The answer is that conservation of angular momentum is implicit in the assumptions on which GR rests. However, as we have already seen, finite propagation speeds and conservation of angular momentum are incompatible. Therefore, GR was forced to claim that gravity is not a force that propagates in any classical sense, and that aberration does not apply.

In practice, this suppression of aberration is done through so-called “retarded potentials”. In electromagnetism, these are called “Lienard-Wiechert potentials”. For examples of the use of retarded potentials, see (Misner et al., 1973, p. 1080) or (Feynman, 1963, p. 21-4). Suppose we let be the gravitational potential at a field point and time , be the gravitational constant, be an element of volume in the source of the potential, be the coordinates of that volume element in the source, be the matter density at point and time , , be the distance from the source volume element at time to the field point at time , and be the relative velocity between the field point and the source. Then two different forms of retarded potentials in common use for gravitation are these:

www.metaresearch.org...

xploder

reply to post by XPLodER

would the earth lose orbit after 8 mins
or
would the earth leave orbit the pictosecond the sun blinked out of existence?

My intuition tells me that the Earth would leave orbit the moment the sun disappeared. Even though gravity works on 4 dimensions I don't see how that can explain the problem you proposed. I don't think we know enough about gravity to conclusively say that "gravity waves" travel at the speed of light. We really don't what what gravity is and how it exactly works so it's presumptuous to assume it works at the speed of light. If it was that slow, I'd have to agree with you and say that our orbit and the orbit of other planets further out would not be stable.

If the Sun blinked out of existence, the effects of its gravity would take 8 minutes to cease affecting the Earth. Gravity obeys the speed of light limit, just like everything else.

But gravity has no aberration and our orbit would be unstable if it was so, you say? This turns out to be wrong, because the effects of gravity take into account relative speed of gravitating objects. So Earth is attracted towards the future position of the Sun if the Sun would continue on its way for 8 minutes. This is enough to almost completely stabilise the orbits, however it is not perfect because it does not take acceleration into account, only linear velocity. Doesnt matter much in solar system, but orbits indeed decay in systems with much higher accelerations, such as fast orbiting neutron stars. This was verified by observation.

Entanglement does not violate speed of light because no matter or information actually travels, or something.

reply to post by PhoenixOD

Its not simply like a tow rope joining us to the object we are orbiting.

Are we not connected to the Sun though?

Through a magnetic portal?

Magnetic Portals Connect Earth to the Sun

science.nasa.gov...

Gravity acts everywhere at the same time, this is why we think that it is a weak force because it has to do this where the other forces only interact at very short distances.

reply to post by XPLodER


What if the gravitational constant of our solar system has nothing to do with our central sun.

When it wigs out the light stops and we keep spinning around nothing.

What if our solar system was held together by a bigger force that our sun.

I know of stuff that can seam like it is 10,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000 faster than light, Quantum Entanglement.

But it is kind of off putting when professors use the term speed or stuff to do with speed because this is not a subject or velocity or speed. More of a bond interaction that makes things interact instantly even if they are the other side of the universe. Nothing travels or moves, which is the confusing thing.

reply to post by XPLodER


Yes, Thought travels faster than light.
So does bad news.
Lateral Genetic Transfer as well.

S&F

Originally posted by definity
I know of stuff that can seam like it is 10,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000 faster than light, Quantum Entanglement.

But it is kind of off putting when professors use the term speed or stuff to do with speed because this is not a subject or velocity or speed. More of a bond interaction that makes things interact instantly even if they are the other side of the universe. Nothing travels or moves, which is the confusing thing.

Yes, as I understand quantum entanglement, the interactions of entangled particles are synchronised and instantaneous, regardless of distance, as if they are the same particle. No information has to travel "between" them.

Originally posted by XPLodER
there is many ideas as to how gravity works considering if gravity acted at the speed of light,
we would be moving to where the sun was not where the sun is.


if this is true then the earth would be attracted to where the sun was 8 minutes ago, not where it is now,
and that would mean no spooky action at a distance (Einstein) and the earth would quickly lose stable orbit.

Fuzzy thinking galore.

The Sun does not move with respect to the Earth. The phrase "Where the Sun was" is meaningless in this context. The Sun is where it is, from our perspective, constantly.

Sure, the Sun moves through the galaxy at a constant rate. But the Earth moves with it, at exactly the same rate.

Hence, your thought experiment is actually a flight of fancy.

Recent investigations have supported previous measurements of gravity propagating at approximately the speed of light:

By conducting six observations of total and annular solar eclipses, as well as Earth tides, a team headed by Tang Keyun, a researcher with the Institute of Geology and Geophysics under the Chinese Academy of Sciences (CAS), found that the Newtonian Earth tide formula includes a factor related to the propagation of gravity.

“Earth tide” refers to a small change in the Earth’s surface caused by the gravity of the moon and sun.

Based on the data, the team, with the participation of the China Earthquake Administration and the University of the CAS, found that gravitational force released from the sun and gravitational force recorded at ground stations on Earth did not travel at the same speed, with the time difference exactly the same as the time it takes for light to travel from the sun to observation stations on Earth.

[…] By applying the new data to the propagation equation of gravity, the team found that the speed of gravity is about 0.93 to 1.05 times the speed of light with a relative error of about 5 percent, providing the first set of strong evidence showing that gravity travels at the speed of light.

Source: chinadigitaltimes.net... ts-find-evidence-for-speed-of-gravity/

Harte

"10,000 times faster than light" isn't a statement that should be thrown around lightly...

reply to post by XPLodER


Was the laser beam directed in that circle? or was the direction of the beam perpendicular to our computer screen, as a point straight through the center of this ring of light?

Originally posted by ChaoticOrder
reply to post by XPLodER

 

would the earth lose orbit after 8 mins
or
would the earth leave orbit the pictosecond the sun blinked out of existence?

My intuition tells me that the Earth would leave orbit the moment the sun disappeared. Even though gravity works on 4 dimensions I don't see how that can explain the problem you proposed. I don't think we know enough about gravity to conclusively say that "gravity waves" travel at the speed of light. We really don't what what gravity is and how it exactly works so it's presumptuous to assume it works at the speed of light. If it was that slow, I'd have to agree with you and say that our orbit and the orbit of other planets further out would not be stable.

if you use the gravity warps space time idea of einstien,
and then remove the sun,
the curvature of space time would have to unwrap at the exact same rate as light,
for the two to effect us at the same time,
if you use LR the effect of the missing mass of the sun would be felt instantly

i guess it comes down to the space time manifold you prefer

xploder

Originally posted by Maslo
If the Sun blinked out of existence, the effects of its gravity would take 8 minutes to cease affecting the Earth. Gravity obeys the speed of light limit, just like everything else.

so you would be in the einstein camp of thinking.

But gravity has no aberration and our orbit would be unstable if it was so, you say? This turns out to be wrong, because the effects of gravity take into account relative speed of gravitating objects. So Earth is attracted towards the future position of the Sun if the Sun would continue on its way for 8 minutes. This is enough to almost completely stabilise the orbits, however it is not perfect because it does not take acceleration into account, only linear velocity. Doesnt matter much in solar system, but orbits indeed decay in systems with much higher accelerations, such as fast orbiting neutron stars. This was verified by observation.

the physics involved with binary neutron stars is very exotic, and not a very good analogy to solar dynamics.


the scale we are discussing is solar, and in particular the earth-sun relationship

Entanglement does not violate speed of light because no matter or information actually travels, or something.

if i entangled two photons and vibrated one with a laser,
the other would vibrate in resonance with the first regardless of distance,
and lacking a recognisable medium to transfer the vibration information.

this would be a theoretical example of faster than light communication.

and shows a propagation speed faster than light if the distence is great enough

xploder

Originally posted by MamaJ
reply to post by PhoenixOD

 

Its not simply like a tow rope joining us to the object we are orbiting.

Are we not connected to the Sun though?

Through a magnetic portal?

Magnetic Portals Connect Earth to the Sun

science.nasa.gov...

very interesting study,
thanks for bringing that into the discussion

star

xploder

Originally posted by DanaKatherineScully
Gravity acts everywhere at the same time, this is why we think that it is a weak force because it has to do this where the other forces only interact at very short distances.

reading this my mind drew a parallel to electrostatic energy, in that it can fill the volume of space with electrical potential. and any small difference of potential charge could be immediately cause an effect.

interesting

xploder

Originally posted by jsettica
reply to post by XPLodER

 

What if the gravitational constant of our solar system has nothing to do with our central sun.

When it wigs out the light stops and we keep spinning around nothing.

What if our solar system was held together by a bigger force that our sun.

this is interesting,
a third option,
the earth continues on its orbit without effect,

the only thing i can think of off hand is that the helo sphere is being "spun" from an outside force inverting the forces from velocity/gravity (centripetal) to each planet trying to gain equilibrium (like a centrifuge) where the planets would be sorted by mass/size or specific gravity

owwwww that hurts my brain lol

let me think about that one for a while

nice

xploder

Originally posted by definity
I know of stuff that can seam like it is 10,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000 faster than light, Quantum Entanglement.

But it is kind of off putting when professors use the term speed or stuff to do with speed because this is not a subject or velocity or speed. More of a bond interaction that makes things interact instantly even if they are the other side of the universe. Nothing travels or moves, which is the confusing thing.

what i find off putting is the idea that one of the fundamental "measures" or "rulers" we use for measurements is time,
but under GR and SR the "measure" or "ruler" can change its measurement and still be considered a static or capable "metric" for "measure"

if i had a stretchy ruler anything could be 10cms, in fact everything could be 10cms,

the speed of light is circularly defined

The speed of light in vacuum, commonly denoted c, is a universal physical constant important in many areas of physics. Its value is 299,792,458 metres per second, a figure that is exact because the length of the metre is defined from this constant and the international standard for time

wiki

catch that, the measure is a flexible or stretchy ruler time, being used to find a meter (another ruler or measure), then the speed of light is defined as how long (time) it takes for light to travel a meter (distence derived from time)

you cant use a stretchy ruler to define another stretchy ruler and then define how fast is the thing you are trying to measure is going in terms of the two stretchy rulers in a ratio of each other.

I KNOW I AM GOING TO GET flamed for saying that,

but where am i wrong?

xploder

Originally posted by thoiter

Originally posted by definity
I know of stuff that can seam like it is 10,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000 faster than light, Quantum Entanglement.

But it is kind of off putting when professors use the term speed or stuff to do with speed because this is not a subject or velocity or speed. More of a bond interaction that makes things interact instantly even if they are the other side of the universe. Nothing travels or moves, which is the confusing thing.

Yes, as I understand quantum entanglement, the interactions of entangled particles are synchronised and instantaneous, regardless of distance, as if they are the same particle. No information has to travel "between" them.

faster than light communication,
FTL

xploder