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Dutch Filmmaker Theo Van Gogh Murdered

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posted on Nov, 8 2004 @ 07:21 AM
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Originally posted by Calibre
Fact is he said things against Islam who were in some´s eyes racistic. Do not deny it. They stand on his own website duh.


You don't know what racistic is Calibre.
And you don't understand why Theo wrote what he wrote.




posted on Nov, 8 2004 @ 07:24 AM
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Originally posted by Jakko

Originally posted by Calibre
Well sorry. In some countries some of their vieuws are not allowed to be spoken in public, maybe should have been in their case the same.


Uhm, hey listen if they are fine living in this retarded culture where the female is killed for cheating but the male isn't, okay. (actually it's not okay, but not much I can do about it)

But stay the **** away from our country and our culture.
We don't kill people for honour, we don't kill people when we feel insulted and we certainly do not kill people because someone insults our religion.


So you say that Muslims are un intelligent are you? So every Muslim wants to blow him self up just like that. Get real. I am open minded, you claim to be but what comes out says other things.


Ah, so you're ignorant?

1. I didn't say anyone is unintelligent
2. I didn't say every muslims blows himself up.
I think your post sums up how you think. No comments needed. As for your 2 points. You replied in a way that may seem like you think they are unintelligent and you did indeed not say they all blow themselves up no...
But your replay about retarded culture and everything tells me enough.


By the way. The "Useless Violence" movement and stuff came up after Dutch people where killed by... Dutch people. So actually yes some of you do kill eachother for those reasons.

[edit on 8-11-2004 by Calibre]



posted on Nov, 8 2004 @ 07:35 AM
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Originally posted by Calibre
I think your post sums up how you think. No comments needed.


Great, hopefully you'll shut up about things you do not understand now?


As for your 2 points. You replied in a way that may seem like you think they are unintelligent


I was just about to say the same for you.


But your replay about retarded culture and everything tells me enough.


Yeah I know, you're probably one of the people that's too "correct" to say the truth about Islamic cultures in this world.
Hey, why don't you spend your next vacaction in a country with an Islamic culture and see for yourself how "correct" these cultures are.
Once again, you speak of things you know nothing about.


By the way. The "Useless Violence" movement and stuff came up after Dutch people where killed by... Dutch people. So actually yes some of you do kill eachother for those reasons.
[edit on 8-11-2004 by Calibre]


Yep, there's all kinds of violence everywhere.
We have enough violence without those Islamic extremists around allready.



posted on Nov, 8 2004 @ 08:25 AM
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I know enough of it. I have seen your kind of answers before. When someone does not agree he knows nothing of it, lol. Next step is when you don´t agree then you go down isn´t it. Comes from same people that say things like Islam is retarded and those countries too. When you say things like you said, don´t hide yourself behind nice words but come out for it.

People of the kind I am talking about just need these things to jump on the wagon and start badmouthing other cultures, start spitting venom and hatred towards others. Guess what. These people are not better than Islam fundamentalists.

What makes you think that you know so well what you are talking about?
Who said I have never been to an Islam powered country? You only assume and suppose things but don´t have facts.
Facts are that Pim spouted racist comments, they are even in his books,website etc.
Also Mr. Van Gogh wasn´t so holy as some like to let it seem. And since you are Dutch, you know that very well. But any reason to bash Islam is a good reason I guess.



posted on Nov, 8 2004 @ 11:47 AM
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Originally posted by Calibre
I know enough of it. I have seen your kind of answers before. When someone does not agree he knows nothing of it, lol. Next step is when you don´t agree then you go down isn´t it. Comes from same people that say things like Islam is retarded and those countries too. When you say things like you said, don´t hide yourself behind nice words but come out for it.


Oh I am coming out for it allright.
You put words in my mouth I didn't say, you don't know the difference betweena racist comment and an insulting comment, and you generally lack knowledge about my country, which is supported by your twisted view on things.


People of the kind I am talking about just need these things to jump on the wagon and start badmouthing other cultures, start spitting venom and hatred towards others. Guess what. These people are not better than Islam fundamentalists.


Well thanks, but I know better.
You should look up the word culture, and then see what the culture in Nigeria (among many other countries) is like.
Maybe then you'll understand what I mean with a retarded culture.



What makes you think that you know so well what you are talking about?


I have eyes?


Who said I have never been to an Islam powered country? You only assume and suppose things but don´t have facts.


Your replies show me that you do not know anything about countries with an Islamic regime, so I think you've never been there.


Facts are that Pim spouted racist comments, they are even in his books,website etc.


Can you name one?
I truly think you are mixing racism up with something else here. Racism is like Hitler did in WWII, or what happened in Africa a long time ago, or what *some* muslims shout towards gay people.
So please name me one of Pims racist comments, and I will be happy to explain to you that it's not racist at all.


Also Mr. Van Gogh wasn´t so holy as some like to let it seem. And since you are Dutch, you know that very well. But any reason to bash Islam is a good reason I guess.


Uhm I didn't say he was holy.
I said he made harsh and insulting comments, toward anyone he didn't like. He was far from holy.
To be honest I think he went way too far in some of his columns, especially the ones about that jewish writer Leon de Winter.
But racism? No it was not racism.



posted on Nov, 8 2004 @ 12:05 PM
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web.inter.nl.net...


Migration - permanent residence in another country - is wrong in principle. The Netherlands is a land for Netherlanders with a Netherlands culture. The permanent presence of non-Netherlanders disrupts this unity of land, people, and culture. The large-scale immigration of the last 40 years was for this reason a great mistake. Its effects must be corrected as soon as possible.

Zero migration must be the goal. If the country was 100% inhabited by non-Dutch residents, then the Netherlands would cease to exist. 1% immigration means that the country has been 1% destroyed. Immigration is in principle a hostile act against the Netherlands. Citizens who encourage it commit treason.

Netherlanders should marry Netherlanders: they choose their partners from among their own people, that is natural. Partners from other countries are only acceptable in exceptional circumstances, and this form of immigration should never develop a structural character. In such cases, the immigrant partner has an absolute duty to assimilate into the Dutch culture: any children must be raised as Dutch.

If immigration is permitted in other exceptional circumstances, assimilation is an absolute duty. The government must enforce this assimilation process: no exceptions shall be granted.




posted on Nov, 8 2004 @ 12:15 PM
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Of course you forgot to paste the part where he further explains and nuances these lines.
What he says here, is a direct solution for the problems we have in the netherlands now.
His ideas may not be nice, and very very harsh but noone can deny that such a policy would save a lot of future problems.

The thing in the netherlands is, we are a very social country. A lot more social than most other coutries, even the USA.
People in other countries, somehow somewhere got the idea that the netherlands is a paradise where the government will give you money even if you don't have a job.
Several things happened.

People came to the netherlands, told the government they have X kids, and the government then gives them money for every kid they have.
After a while it was revealed that a lot of these kids were nonexistant, and our governments request to the maroc government to help us check wether these kids really exist, was declined.

I am just explaining one of the many problems, that any "very social" country will deal with, when there are a lot of other countries nearby that are not this socially.
People marrying just to be legal in the netherlands, divorcing right after, people coming here claiming their own government will kill them when this is not the case, etc etc etc.

Pim's solutiuons were harsh and very simple, but what he did do is stop the political correctness that was keeping our government from ever daring to propose solutions to the problems.



posted on Nov, 8 2004 @ 12:44 PM
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Jakko, read it again...
It does not say that in the text.

In fact, read the last part of the webpage as well. While I admit this is the opinion of one man. It's not that far from the truth.

Look at this thread that I found here. It reeks of ignorance, from different nationalities... Peoples' reactions to van Gogh's murder. There is strong language though...



posted on Nov, 8 2004 @ 12:54 PM
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You should really have seen the interviews with this man.
I have seen hours and hours of him, in about every TV show in the netherlands, and I know what he ment with this.
He was right, and when I read these texts I know that his actual explanation was a lot more nuanced and balanced than these texts.

I am not a racist neither am I scared of arabs or muslims, or do I have negative experiences with him.
But I do think Pim was right, in about everything he said.
You guys just have these texts to base your opinions on, so I understand you'll end up thinking the wrong things.



posted on Nov, 8 2004 @ 01:18 PM
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Jakko, I was living in the Netherlands at the time, I also saw him on t.v. and read the news articles and followed the stories. I also followed the elections and saw live on t.v. his body on the ground in front of the news station. I was there...

A question for you Jakko: What nationality do you think that I have??


[edit on 8-11-2004 by TheBandit795]



posted on Nov, 8 2004 @ 01:20 PM
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Originally posted by Frith
This act reminds me of how Larry Flint was shot and paralyzed by a White Supremacist (acting under the veil of some form of Christianity as all White Supremacists do) angry over Larry depicting interracial sex in his magazine. Not sure how people can think that Islam needs to be eradicated when there are many, many instances of Christians doing the same things.

Good to see the same old tactics are being used by Islamopolgists .Do you happen to have the Chapter and verse the shooter was following From the Gospel of Jesus Christ?
Pm me when you find it.



posted on Nov, 8 2004 @ 01:53 PM
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Originally posted by TheBandit795

A question for you Jakko: What nationality do you think that I have??

[edit on 8-11-2004 by TheBandit795]


You live on the island I want to go to next vacation. ;+)
Been to curacou 5 times now, and I am told Aruba's population is a lot nicer towards tourists.



posted on Nov, 8 2004 @ 01:54 PM
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Yeah, but what nationality am I??



posted on Nov, 8 2004 @ 01:57 PM
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You you're Dutch, I know.
But jugding form the text you pasted from some anti-Pim site I figured you don't really know what he was talking about.



posted on Nov, 10 2004 @ 10:05 AM
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There appears to be no end in sight for the aftermath of Theo van Gogh's assassination. The polarization of the Netherlands may lead to a polarization and subsequent crisis for the EU. Bombing schools and the call for mass deportations? Riot watch in America? Perhaps there are too many patched eyes... Eyes that should be on Europe?

www.iht.com.../articles/2004/11/10/news/dutch.html



posted on Nov, 13 2004 @ 09:12 PM
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The repercussions are now evident, Dutch Muslims are feeling the pressure of the anti-foreign movement.

cnn.netscape.cnn.com...

Violence is mounting, how far can it escalate? Can the rest of the EU be far behind?



posted on Nov, 13 2004 @ 09:23 PM
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I saw this today and although not related to Theo Van Gogh's murder, it does show how serious the Dutch government is:



(CNN) -- Dutch police say they have raided a suspected paramilitary training ground for Kurdish militants in the southern Netherlands, arresting 29 people.

The raid took place at a campground believed to be used by the Kurdish Workers Party (PKK). The campground's manager was among those arrested.

The Dutch Justice Department's international crime team, which carried out the raid, said it had reason to believe those arrested would be sent to Armenia to fight for the PKK following their training session.


CNN

MM - you've been following this for awhile - was van Gogh's murder an excuse for the Dutch government to start cracking down or is this long-held policy?



posted on Nov, 13 2004 @ 09:38 PM
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Originally posted by Bleys
MM - you've been following this for awhile - was van Gogh's murder an excuse for the Dutch government to start cracking down or is this long-held policy?


Excuse or impetus? The sentiment has definitely been festering, but I would defer to the Dutch contingent on that particular nuance. My concerns extend beyond the border of the Netherlands as well, France is in the thralls of contesting Islam, the secularist movement has met resistance for the first time, how will it react?

Europe has always been known to set trends, perhaps the first Western civil war (of the 21st Century) will be in the EU, not the U.S.


[edit on 13/11/2004 by Mirthful Me]



posted on Nov, 14 2004 @ 03:41 AM
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Originally posted by Jakko

Originally posted by TheBandit795
All they need is a next Pim Fortuyn and you have another nazi state...


Keep your ignorance to yourself please.
Such comments really reveal how much you know about Pim Fortuyn and what he stood for.



Originally posted by Jakko the Hypocrite
One of the few ex Islamic people who dares to tell the truth about what a vile and retarded religion the Islam really is.

You're one to talk Jakko.

[edit on 14-11-2004 by Salah Ud Deen]



posted on Nov, 14 2004 @ 11:13 AM
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Originally posted by Salah Ud Deen
You're one to talk Jakko.

[edit on 14-11-2004 by Salah Ud Deen]


Listen if you don't know what I am talking about then I understand this comment of me sounds really harsh.
You should probably get some background info on Ayaan Hirschi Ali and what she has to say about the religion she once was part of.
The religion itself may not be retarded, what I ment was the the culture as a result of religion slowly becoming retarded over time.

I do not know why this is the case, wether this has to do with strictly cultures effect on religion or the other way around, but I do know the result has been a retarded culture based on the Islam for a lot of countries.

And calling Pim Fortuyn a nazi makes no sense in a lot of ways.







 
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