Hollywood's outdated business model requires new laws just to keep it alive

I don't think Hollywood wants the internet dead - just the opposite. They rely on the faster speed of information to sell their films to the public. One big problem is the theaters themselves charging higher and higher prices. They sell popcorn coke and candy at 10 times the amount it cost to make them and people don't want to deal with this anymore so they turn to watching on the internet.

In the USA, it is not illegal to view on the internet a copy of a movie that was copied illegally. Thus you have sites like movies2k.to that have tons more movies than Netflix available for free watching. But he kicker is, Hollywood is not hurting one bit. They still make billions a year in DVD sales and sales of movie downloads - much more than they had without the internet when people had to rely on going to the stores. Look through some movies on Wikipedia and you will see the sales of today's movies compared to pre internet has tripled. The new Star Trek from 2009 is a good example. Scroll down and look at the box office chart and compare the budget for the film to what it made world wide compared to all the older movies. en.wikipedia.org...

So if Hollywood is actually making more money than they used to - where is piracy or free video streaming a problem? It isn't. It's a ploy by Hollywood to gain more control through laws. If Hollywood ( a private industry) can manipulate the government they will continue to do so until they become mini governments themselves like Monsanto. It's about power and control, not money.

reply to post by XPLodER



For one thing, dubbing takes time. So that is one big factor.


And I know that in many ways, not just in film making, but other industries too, the US is considered like the guinea pig. New technologies, new medicines, new films, they wait and watch to see what happens- what kind of unexpected side effects will arise, etc.

For movies to be shown in other countries, you have to have buyers in the country pick it up. The hyper consumerism type fo mentality that is characteristic of Americans is not as present in many other countries- they are very hesitant to go forward, to change to take in more or new things.

The filmaking industry in Hollywood would prefer to have films all open up at the same time all over the globe, that would definately cut down on their losses (if it sucks, then it will be too late for people to spread the word and stop others from buying their tickets- huge crowds would have already been suckered in with good publicity).

But the investors in other coutnries often are more discerning than that and want to see the proof in the pudding before they slap down their money.

reply to post by Bluesma


funny you bring up dubbing, pirate sites do dubbing in just a few days, (sometimes a few hours) as well as remove DRM to make the viewing experience more enjoyable. Instead of making people who purchase goods suffer, make it better then there would be less piracy.

did you know most store have anti theft procedures? they pay for it themselves, however Hollywood want someone else to pay for policing, how odd is that??

not to mention all the folks that don't get paid for what they have made due to "Hollywood Accounting" as I mentioned before "Return of the Jedi" has Never made a profit according to Hollywood, so Darth Vader has never been paid.

Originally posted by thedigirati
reply to post by Bluesma

 

funny you bring up dubbing, pirate sites do dubbing in just a few days, (sometimes a few hours

Wait, what? Are you sure about that?? How do they come up with enough actors, with translated scripts fitted to the movements of the mouths and bodies, that quick?? I admit I am sceptical of your claim, and wonder if there is any way I could find out.... though I see the problem there- illegal activities are not going to make themselves that easy to confirm.

My first thought was- hey if that is so, maybe I could get me some work doing that- but then I realized, I wouldn't get paid, there is no money for pirates to pay me for my work. So how do they get these actors on call to do such difficult work within such a tight schedule and conditions- with no pay??

did you know most store have anti theft procedures? they pay for it themselves, however Hollywood want someone else to pay for policing, how odd is that??

Perhaps I need to think about this statement for a few days, or something, but I can't make heads or tails of it.

Once a product is sold to a store, the store has paid for it, and whatever is stolen in their store is their loss.
They can cut down on their losses by installing an anti-theft system.

If the store buys products, and they do not sell, because the people are getting the product free somewhere else, the store is powerless to cut down on their losses. The store will not bother continuing to buy the product.


Why would it be odd that the producers of that product would then want to put into action some controls on the theft of their product?

As far as I know, No ISP pays for movies, so why would they police for such? Same with music, now granted some websites may pay for music or movies, but what does that have to do with the ISP policing for such?

ISP's provides access to the "net", however the **AA's want them to police for them, at no cost (to Hollywood, recording industries)

and I stand corrected I confused dubbing and subtitles, my bad.


and here is one (Of MANY) Links to some of the problems with the current business models

Here's an idea. if you want to stop all this and fix all the problems - Hollywood should not produce movies in any format that can be copied illegally.

It's that simple. This goes for music CD's too. Hollywood or the music industry really doesn't have room to complain as long as they release the product in a copyable format. They KNOW people WILL copy it if they do that. hence, Hollywood and the music industry is actually encouraging illegal copying.

How many children are told don't stick your finger in the light socket or you'll get shocked. If they do it anyway, it's their own fault. Same thing.

About Return of the Jedi, Hollywood,ie George Lucas is screwing people.

Of course, Return of the Jedi has grossed over $572 million worldwide, which includes an estimated $88 million when the film was re-released in 1997. So how is it possible that the film has yet to make a profit?

Hollywood contracts are notoriously one-sided, but I’m pretty sure Prowse must be mistaken about that letter and what might be owed to him for Return of the Jedi, right?

Gross profit is what you get if you are a big enough actor or producer to demand this. You get a percentage of profit based on the gross of the film – how much it makes before any costs. Therefore, you are guaranteed to get paid since the studio can’t hide anything. Very few people can demand gross points. But if you have them and your film hits big, you make millions. In fact, this can be so profitable you will sometimes see big stars forgo any salary at all except union minimum just to get these points.

Unfortunately, Mr. Prowse relates what is almost universally the case with a net profit clause. Studios almost never pay on this clause, as they claim nearly any and every expense possible to keep the film from showing any actual profit. Very few films have ever shown a net profit on the books.

How do they do this? Well first, imagine that George Lucas decided to go to New York tomorrow to talk about showing Return of the Jedi in 3D. And he stayed at the Ritz Carlton, ordered sushi at 3 a.m. from room service and used the hotel phone to call Bahrain to make prank calls.

Well, 26 years after the release of the film, the accountants at Lucasfilm are going to charge $86,000 to the costs of Return of the Jedi. I am NOT joking. This is what they do. If George Lucas utters the words Star Wars and he’s spending money, they’re putting it on the red line for one of those films.

Return of the Jedi cost 33 million to make (www.supershadow.com...) and grossed over 475 million world wide. I'd say Darth Vader is entitled to his fair share. en.wikipedia.org...:_Return_of_the_Jedi


Ya know.. after reading that, It looks like the people who make up Hollywood are some scumbag crooks. Do they deserve a penny more if they employ these tactics? Hell No. In fact, they deserve to have it taken from them. If this is the norm...

Long Live Movie Piracy ! This may be the reason WHY it's Not illegal in the United Stated to view a pirated movie on sites like Movies2k.to. The Public therefore has a Right to screw these people like they screw everyone else.

reply to post by JohnPhoenix

Ya know.. after reading that, It looks like the people who make up Hollywood are some scumbag crooks. Do they deserve a penny more if they employ these tactics? Hell No. In fact, they deserve to have it taken from them. If this is the norm...

Long Live Movie Piracy ! This may be the reason WHY it's Not illegal in the United Stated to view a pirated movie on sites like Movies2k.to. The Public therefore has a Right to screw these people like they screw everyone else.

your frustration is a symptom of the problem,
but piracy just gives holly wood more power over your lives,

i asked people why they pirate copies of movies and they basically said
why are there no legal easy to use services that are reasonably priced?

piracy just gives them more "ammo" to push for legislation in their interests only.
while there are tax breaks for piracy there is no need to actually address the core issue

xploder

It isnt just hollywood. Italy is a beach with some country in between. "Summer Blockbusters" are oftentimes delayed to autumn or the like there because in the summer cinema isnt on the mind of many people. Then, yeah, not all theatres are digital and producing enough copies may take a wee bit.

If you live in New zealand your theatre with a potential audience of 6 might come a bit low on the priority list.

Originally posted by Merinda
It isnt just hollywood. Italy is a beach with some country in between. "Summer Blockbusters" are oftentimes delayed to autumn or the like there because in the summer cinema isnt on the mind of many people. Then, yeah, not all theatres are digital and producing enough copies may take a wee bit.

If you live in New zealand your theatre with a potential audience of 6 might come a bit low on the priority list.

lol

you are still looking at country centric thinking,

global audience, you know the internet, weather we have 6 people in a theatre,
or 4.5 million people at home we are all consumers,



and making movies artificially scarce till more people are in the mood to go to the cinemas,
is part of the problem.


this causes frustration for the consumer.


xploder

I'm a producer and a filmmaker. I reserve the right to distribute my work any damn way I please because I made it, I bought the script, I paid the cast and crew and I pay for distribution. What is it about intellectual property you don't understand? You don't like the system? Change it!

Quit the crybaby whining, make your own movies and do whatever you want with them. Join us, we welcome the competition. The age of digital filmmaking has opened up a whole new world of where practically anyone can make a movie on their kitchen table. Hollywood barely even exists anymore. It's an indy world now!!

Got a story? Make a movie then tell me of your experience with the cutthroat business of film.

Start here...

www.celtx.com...

Originally posted by olaru12
I'm a producer and a filmmaker. I reserve the right to distribute my work any damn way I please because I made it, I bought the script, I paid the cast and crew and I pay for distribution. What is it about intellectual property you don't understand? You don't like the system? Change it!

Quit the crybaby whining, make your own movies and do whatever you want with them. Join us, we welcome the competition. The age of digital filmmaking has opened up a whole new world of where practically anyone can make a movie on their kitchen table. Hollywood barely even exists anymore. It's an indy world now!!

Got a story? Make a movie then tell me of your experience with the cutthroat business of film.

Start here...

www.celtx.com...

edit on 1-4-2013 by olaru12 because: (no reason given)

HBO ADMITS PIRACY IS A ‘COMPLIMENT’ THAT DOESN’T HURT SALES

bgr.com...

and yes i understand they are a large company, and this does not scale to indy producers yet.

but if the large companies that are pushing governments around the world to criminalise copyright,
why the hell are we if it turns out to be the best advertising?

xploder

reply to post by olaru12


yep you can do as you wish with it, however no one has the right to get paid for it. you "MAY" make money, but it is not a RIGHT. You can sell it all you like doesn't mean I or anyone else has to buy it. so PAY FOR YOUR OWN DAMN POLICING

Duh! Are you all socialists? Hollywood puts out movies to make money. They organize the release to make the most money at the least amount of relative risk. You all act like you are ENTITLED to be able see whatever someone creates, whenever you want, at whatever cost YOU deem appropriate. That's not how things work.

If you all think you have a better way then go spend the money and make the movies on your own and don't come back crying when everyone in the world has ripped you off.

I regret the socialists comment, it gives you all too much credit. Also realize that of course this only applies to those who advocate/excuse pirating and have that welfare sense of entitlement.

reply to post by sligtlyskeptical


well you have angered me with your response,

and i think that was your intent

so here goes

how in hell is a movie a "useful art"
how is a commercial movie for the benefit of anyone other than the producer?
how is "entertainment" furthering society?
how is it that you can with a straight face claim the "right" to money based on the idea that captive art is a benifit of society when it only benefits private people?

how can your supposed right to "get payed" be proportional to the societies "right" to have access to useful art if the price is obviously over inflated to the point where society cant access the "so called" useful art of entertainment?

you sir are rude and disingenuous,
coming into my thread and calling people socialists then claiming we are all "less than smart enough" to be considered socialists.

well you are really showing your lack of understanding of many words and meanings,
and the effect that useful art was supposed to have on society.

your transpose the "needs" of society onto a private "quasi" right to have ownership?
well that negates the "useful art" clause of the constitution.

and there fore means you know nothing about the reason and intent of the law as it was enacted and have simply bought into dis information that you are now spreading because of a lack of comprehension for the benifit of a select few over societys RIGHT to have culture

you are not smart enough to debate further
take your name calling else where

xploder

reply to post by sligtlyskeptical


Why do you wish to FORCE me to watch your Movie? I don't even have a media player on my PC. For that VERY Reason. I don't have a Music player on my PC for the SAME Reason.

if I bought a Movie on DVD and wanted to watch it on my tablet or PSP why should I have to buy it a second time??


I DO NOT WATCH MOVIES, I READ books, that I do not pay for ( other then maybe some local taxes) I get them from my local libary.

I DO NOT SUPPORT YOU IN ANY WAY........ Nor will at this current rate..

so why must I pay higher costs to my ISP so they can spy on me because you THINK you are losing money?????????

I do not "pirate" anything, my major downloads are linux distros ( ya know that "Free" software)

Yet Darth Vader has not been paid for return of the Jedi ( who is ripping whom off?)

When the Movie and Music industries stop trying to kill innovation, then maybe I will start buying again, but you best hurry up, I'm getting used to doing without and EXPANDING my brain, not drying it up with the drivel they have now

( I'm also a hardcore PC gamer, I play the stuff that is FREE)

reply to post by sligtlyskeptical


you are a copyright extremist and your views are dangerous to liberty and freedom



this is the sort of "natural justice" you will get under extremist policies,

ISP's spying on you
guilty till proven innocent
three lawyer "pannels" deciding "justice" on their terms,

your rights traded away for some other trade benefit

you will be the death of the internet as we know it.

xploder

Originally posted by sligtlyskeptical
Duh! Are you all socialists?

LOL- The attitude is more that of the capitalist, where the consumer is king, and supply is supposed to adjust itself to demand. Get yer insults straight, man!

Originally posted by Bluesma

Originally posted by sligtlyskeptical
Duh! Are you all socialists?

LOL- The attitude is more that of the capitalist, where the consumer is king, and supply is supposed to adjust itself to demand. Get yer insults straight, man!

we are in a free market environment,
market forces?
you know supply demand fundamentals?

the only market in the world where demand out strips supply at a ratio of 10 to 1

and this makes economic sense how?

xploder

reply to post by XPLodER


Why ask me how this makes sense? I never claimed it did!