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Should the rest of the world consider the Nordic model as their role model?

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posted on Mar, 30 2013 @ 06:10 PM
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Article:Why Nordic Nations are a Role Model for us all

Economist: The Next Supermodel

I would suggest anybody, who has time, please read the Economist article first


Wikipedia: Nordic Model



Economic publications, such as "The Nordic Model - Embracing globalization and sharing risks", characterize the system as follows:[3]
-An elaborate social safety net in addition to public services such as free education and universal healthcare.[3]
-Strong property rights, contract enforcement, and overall ease of doing business.[4]
-Public pension schemes.[3]
-Low barriers to free trade.[4] This is combined with collective risk sharing (social programmes, labour market institutions) which has provided a form of protection against the risks associated with economic openness.[3]
-Little product market regulation. Nordic countries rank very high in product market freedom according to OECD rankings.[3]
-Low levels of corruption.[3] In Transparency International's 2010 Corruption Perceptions Index all five Nordic countries were ranked among the 11 least corrupt of 178 evaluated countries.[5]
-High degrees of labour union membership. In 2008, labour union density was 67.5% in Finland, 67.6% in Denmark, and 68.3% in Sweden. In comparison, union membership was 11.9% in the United States and 7.7% in France.[6]
-A partnership between employers, trade unions and the government, whereby these social partners negotiate the terms to regulating the workplace among themselves, rather than the terms being imposed by law.[7] Sweden has decentralised wage co-ordination, while Finland is ranked the least flexible.[3] The changing economic conditions have given rise to fear among workers as well as resistance by trade unions in regards to reforms.[3] ---At the same time, reforms and favourable economic development seem to have reduced unemployment, which has traditionally been higher. Denmark's Social Democrats managed to push through reforms in 1994 and 1996 (see flexicurity).
-Sweden at 56.6% of GDP, Denmark at 51.7%, and Finland at 48.6% reflects very high public spending.[4] One key reason for public spending is the very large number of public employees. These employees work in various fields including education, healthcare, and for the government itself. They often have lifelong job security and make up around a third of the workforce (more than 38% in Denmark). The public sector's low productivity growth has been compensated by an increase in the private sector’s share of government financed services which has included outsourcing.[3] Public spending in social transfers such as unemployment benefits and early-retirement programmes is high. In 2001, the wage-based unemployment benefits were around 90% of wage in Denmark and 80% in Sweden, compared to 75% in the Netherlands and 60% in Germany. The unemployed were also able to receive benefits several years before reductions, compared to quick benefit reduction in other countries.
-Public expenditure for health and education is significantly higher in Denmark, Sweden, and Norway in comparison to the OECD average.[8]
-Overall tax burdens (as a percentage of GDP) are among the world's highest; Sweden (51.1%), Denmark (46% in 2011),[9] and Finland (43.3%), compared to non-Nordic countries like Germany (34.7%), Canada (33.5%), and Ireland (30.5%)


Scandinavian countries are considered to be among the best countries in the world to live at. Statistically speaking they are at the top of league tables of everything from economic competitiveness to social health to happiness. Thanks to the social benefits and transparency crime rates and corruption are being kept low. The people are among the healthiest. These nations are thriving towards being as sustainable as possible. Economically speaking their wealth caps are kept lower thanks to proportional tax and fine system. the GDP-to-debt ratios are among the lowest from developed countries.

One of the principles of these nations is giving everybody equal opportunities, including opportunites to get out of the downward spiral. Whether you were born in a rich or in a poor family, you have the opportunity to get strong education , including higher education. When you were born with worse genetics, you do not need to worry about getting too much health expenses. After losing a job, it is much easier to get back on track than in many other countries.


I am not implying these nations have perfect system, far from it. Any system can be improved.

They are having issues like any other countries in the world, especially with immigrants due their positive image and people trying to "use" the system. Also I personally think some of their laws are becoming too liberal, considering the behaviour of youth


Overally, I believe Nordic nations are implying a system, which is the best we have seen in the recent history a good mix between capitalism and socialism that benefits everybody - something that any country could learn from.

To end, I would like to quote the Economist article:

The main lesson to learn from the Nordics is not ideological but practical. The state is popular not because it is big but because it works. A Swede pays tax more willingly than a Californian because he gets decent schools and free health care. The Nordics have pushed far-reaching reforms past unions and business lobbies. The proof is there. You can inject market mechanisms into the welfare state to sharpen its performance. You can put entitlement programmes on sound foundations to avoid beggaring future generations. But you need to be willing to root out corruption and vested interests. And you must be ready to abandon tired orthodoxies of the left and right and forage for good ideas across the political spectrum. The world will be studying the Nordic model for years to come.


edit on 30-3-2013 by Cabin because: (no reason given)




posted on Mar, 30 2013 @ 06:48 PM
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I can remember Not so many years ago that the Good 'Ol U.S.A. was the role model for the ENTIRE Planet. At this point I think that it would be hard to let some other country take that position and Maintain OUR Diginity.

It is just way to bad that out Country has 'Evolved' into what it is.

As for the Nordic Model., .. .. . Give them some time to 'Evolve'.



posted on Mar, 31 2013 @ 03:02 PM
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reply to post by Cabin
 


Not a chance. Please do some research and get a balanced view. The Economist is far from balanced and does what it is told to do.

www.whyileftsweden.com...

Please research the case of The Johansson family. I do not want to live in a country that does this or banned the right for citizens to home school.

And then there is the murder of Olof Palme.



posted on Mar, 31 2013 @ 03:59 PM
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Originally posted by Freedom ERP
reply to post by Cabin
 


Not a chance. Please do some research and get a balanced view. The Economist is far from balanced and does what it is told to do.

www.whyileftsweden.com...

Please research the case of The Johansson family. I do not want to live in a country that does this or banned the right for citizens to home school.

And then there is the murder of Olof Palme.


Are you American? Have you ever lived in Sweden or talked with anybody from Sweden?

Firstly, I was talking about the Nordic economical model, the mix between socialism and capitalism, not their liberal politics , like the gender stuff, or the legal system. The way, how the system overally is built, how their economy manages to take much care people while not being in bankrupt and being in better financial status than 99% of other developed countries out there, while keeping the life quality extremely high and overally doing a lot to promote healthy living and education.

Sweden is a country I have visited probably around 40- 45 times, as I have several good friends living there.

I am not supporter of the gender policies there . It is absurd.

Okay, lets take up the website you gave me

First post - cashless society. Nothing abnormal. I love when everything can be done online. We have similar system, everything can be done online and also nearly everything done so, even all the paperwork with digital signatures, Everybody has an account in the e-country where every paper can be done without going to any office. SMS- bus tickets, parking cards. I love it. I was truly surprised that online transactions are not popular in USA.

After that some of their absurdic gender policies.

Arms- well such scandals exist everywhere. I do not know details, although Sweden is afraid of Russia overally, as is Finland. Also Switzerland who is neutral country is armed to teeth. It is simply protection

6-8 pieces of bread a day. I guess the author is either really not Swedish or he/she has deliberately wrote it differently.Bread in Sweden is not the same as bread in USA. There are two breads usually in Nordic countries: bread and white bread. White bread often has another word for it. Americans eat white bread made of wheat, which is unhealthy and makes people fat. I was truly amazed when in American the "real" bread, but only the white one. The bread is usually made of rye. Rye- bread is very healthy and is eaten besides every meal, it has lots of fibers and nutrients and helps the nutrients from food absorb better. I do not know about Sweden, although so it is done in Finland and Estonia, its neighbours and I know also in Sweden rye bread is popular. It does not make people fat and is very healthy.

After that legal system problems.

Johannson family case, again legal and social system problems, not the economical model. I do not know details, although overally it is not the Nordic economical model.

Although overally in these areas, home schooling is not considered good. Sorry, but in my opinion nearly no parent is able to give full knowledge from the schools to their children. The school system in Finland for example, is considered to be one of the strongest in the world. Most parents are not able to provide help in sciences as they are not that good in these themselves. Also the overall level needed is very high and I believe most kids would not be able to get by without. When I see kids round here for example, we have also strong education system, being ill, average kid has a lot of problems and often needs to hire private teacher to get back on track in sciences. Only weaker education system that does not ask too much can let such thing happen... Home schooling programs on not able to give strong education, sorry.

After that again the feminist issues, which is not the economical model.

Overally I did not like you argument, as you took other things than the economical model into account.

Olof Palme case was popular news in that part of Europe, so I know about this. It is hard to speculate on. Again it has nothing to do with the Nordic model.
edit on 31-3-2013 by Cabin because: (no reason given)
edit on 31-3-2013 by Cabin because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 31 2013 @ 04:23 PM
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SNF


I've been to Sweden and Finland a few times. Wonderful places. It is true that they have high taxes, but they get something of value for it. There's no doubt in my mind that the success of scandinavian countries is a direct result of the intelligence and moral integrity of it's people. I have never been to a place with such kind and caring people.

The model that fails to get mentioned much in the US MSM is the quality of their educational system.

The Finns are number 1 in science and number 2 in reading. They do not take standardized tests until they are 16 and attend class fewer hours per year than a US student. They encourage individual thinking and ethics. And everybody thinks the Chinese tiger moms are on the right path...pffffttttt.

www.guardian.co.uk...

Another opinion on Scandinavia and the US. Scandinavian countries are ranked the happiest places to live in the world. If they could just break free from the central banking cabal.....oh yeah, GO ICELAND...

bradnehring.wordpress.com...
edit on 31-3-2013 by ibiubu because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 31 2013 @ 04:28 PM
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But you need to be willing to root out corruption and vested interests


annnnd here the come with thier cries of "but but but but sharing makes you lazy and takes away incentive !!!!!! if you can't deal with it your weak !!!"


hey the capitalist country is in enourmous debt and borrowing from the "lazy and weak" countries

that has to count for something, right ?

I bet they arent slaves to the TV over there either

hmmmmmm
edit on 31-3-2013 by syrinx high priest because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 31 2013 @ 04:41 PM
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Originally posted by ibiubu
SNF


I've been to Sweden and Finland a few times. Wonderful places. It is true that they have high taxes, but they get something of value for it. There's no doubt in my mind that the success of scandinavian countries is a direct result of the intelligence and moral integrity of it's people. I have never been to a place with such kind and caring people.

The model that fails to get mentioned much in the US MSM is the quality of their educational system.

The Finns are number 1 in science and number 2 in reading. They do not take standardized tests until they are 16 and attend class fewer hours per year than a US student. They encourage individual thinking and ethics. And everybody thinks the Chinese tiger moms are on the right path...pffffttttt.

www.guardian.co.uk...


Education does not get mentioned as it is simply funded by the economical model. Although the countries have different approaches.

One of my relatives is exchange-student in Swedish high-school. He is telling me that is much weaker than in Finland or here. About Denmark as far as I know they have a strong education, although the methods should be quite liberal, interesting approach and again very much discussions and individual thinking.

Finland has truly outstanding education system.


The moral values are also very strong overally. I know in Norway skiing is national sports and there are lots of free areas to ski at. And you would imagine, everybody who skis the track can write his time on the timing wall, no control at all and at the end of the season winners are awarded
A system based on honesty
As far as I know, I once skied with one of my local friends there and at least he took it seriously. He gave his best and wrote the exact time he had measured on the wall without lying a couple of extra seconds which would have given him higher place.

Nordic nations overally tend to have very high ethical values and what is interesting is that these are among the most atheistic countries in the world
edit on 31-3-2013 by Cabin because: (no reason given)
edit on 31-3-2013 by Cabin because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 31 2013 @ 04:42 PM
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reply to post by ShadellacZumbrum
 




I can remember Not so many years ago that the Good 'Ol U.S.A. was the role model for the ENTIRE Planet.


Humm no... What you remember is the USA saying to the rest of the planet that they were the role model to fallow, and since it basically was agree to it a let it roll or be called a communist and chance being overthrown most nations decided to let it go unopposed, but it clearly is understood that in civil rights and pollution even the US never claimed to be an example...



posted on Mar, 31 2013 @ 04:48 PM
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reply to post by Cabin
 


I have close relatives in Sweden so I feel very comfortable to comment, and from talking with my relations and their friends, they say this model is the last one the rest of the world should follow.

My relations have worked hard and done well, and they do not begrudge giving their share to give a hand up.

My point is that this very economic model has created the social system that the website I listed details. One is linked to the other.

It seems, in my opinion that balance is not wanted here but just to parrot what a great economic model the Nordics are. Based on the Nordic people I have spoken to from Sweden, Denmark and Norway, as family, friends and business partners, this system is far from perfect, despite what the UN would have us believe.
edit on 31-3-2013 by Freedom ERP because: Grammer



posted on Mar, 31 2013 @ 04:50 PM
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reply to post by Cabin
 


If I read you clearly you say that the model is under pressure from immigration, I doubt that Nordic nations have always had a demographic deficit (too much cold for people to like it there), even a social cold (people are more cold too), this is valid even for Germany (even after the unification). The demographic issue is general to Europe but economically stress, cold climate regions and hard language have a huge impact of people's movement. That is why Spain is filled with British citizens (previously they managed to overcome their historical distaste of all things French, or would go to Italy, even Greece).

The model is under pressure from globalization, self sufficiency has been able to hold it a bit better than some other unsustainable models but social benefits always increase economic costs and they have for sometime starting degrading those to keep competitiveness. Note also that they tend to focus on sectors that are not in as much competition from Asian low cost production, this was taken to a new level in Island (services banking) and they got F#.
edit on 31-3-2013 by Panic2k11 because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 31 2013 @ 05:34 PM
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As someone else has already linked to and said, the "Nordic Model" Is destructive and soul stealing,simply put, it happens slowly and over time. (Remind you of any other model?)

It has all these Social and Political problems BECAUSE of the Nordic system. It's Tax system and welfare have destroyed it economy and the soul of it's people. It's destroyed small business, and inflated the already dangerous unions into a monstrous abomination, that is NOTHING like what unions were originally made for.Even then they are still no match for monopolized and titan corporation. So worse service, less jobs,less quality, less quantity even,and fewer options.

The Nordic system for America?

You may as well put on brown or black shirts and give the fascist salute to the Capital building if you actually believe in the system.



posted on Mar, 31 2013 @ 07:10 PM
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As a swede I must say Scandinavia is pretty great in my opinion, but there's a dark underbelly, there's the cultural marxism and immigration situation that some of you mentioned, there's some world class tomfoolery going on when it comes to feminism, genders, race, culture and identity.

There's also this weird psychological issue I've noticed here in Sweden aside from the well known social coldness, it's this narcissistic tendency coupled with a subtle but noticeable and deep self-hate which brings to mind cognitive dissonance, I think this may be attributed to social engineering tied to cultural marxism, at least partly.
It is not uncommon to hear a swede say "I hate Sweden", or "I hate swedes", but you know they think Sweden is one of the best countries in the world, if not the best, and you'll hear them say it too.

I only have social and cultural issues with my homeland, I'm not knowledgeable enough about economics to have an opinion either way but we seem to be doing good at the moment compared with most of the western world, I just hope this worldwide economic calamity won't have me out on the streets in a few years.



posted on Mar, 31 2013 @ 07:16 PM
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Originally posted by Szarekh
As someone else has already linked to and said, the "Nordic Model" Is destructive and soul stealing,simply put, it happens slowly and over time. (Remind you of any other model?)


How come? Destructive and soul stealing? The people in these countries are among the richest, happiest, most educated and honest in the world. The crime rates are extremely low. People are more healthier and happier on average than in most other countries in the world, especially USA. They are not in extreme debt as many other big countries. Their economies are financially more stable than other big economies.Where do you take your your false information?


Originally posted by Szarekh
It has all these Social and Political problems BECAUSE of the Nordic system. It's Tax system and welfare have destroyed it economy and the soul of it's people. It's destroyed small business, and inflated the already dangerous unions into a monstrous abomination, that is NOTHING like what unions were originally made for.Even then they are still no match for monopolized and titan corporation. So worse service, less jobs,less quality, less quantity even,and fewer options.


Titan corporations?

USA is the country, who has by far the smallest small-business sector out of the other large countries and has most people working for corporations.

Take a look at that study:
www.cepr.net...



-The United States has the second lowest share of self-employed workers (7.2 percent).
-The United States has among the lowest shares of employment in small businesses in manufacturing - only 11.1 percent of the U.S. manufacturing workforce is in enterprises with fewer than 20 employees. Eighteen other rich countries have a higher share of manufacturing employment in small enterprises, including Germany (13.0 percent), Sweden (14.4 percent), and France (18.0 percent).
-U.S. small businesses are particularly weak in high-tech. The United States, for example, has the second lowest share of computer-related service employment in firms with fewer than 100 employees and the third lowest share of research and development related employment in firms with fewer than 100 employees.

Despite our national self-image as a nation of small businesses and entrepreneurs, the United States
small-business sector is proportionately not as large an employer as the small-business sectors in the
rest of the world’s rich economies. One interpretation of these data is that self-employment and
small-business employment may be a less important indicator of entrepreneurship than we have long
thought. Another reading of the data, however, is that the United States has something to learn from
the experience of other advanced economies, which appear to have had much better luck promoting
and sustaining small-business employment.


rwer.wordpress.com... USA has the lowest small and medium business sectors among the other largers

Nordic countries are considered to be among the most innovative countries in the world. They are considered to be among the best climates for starting an enterprise.They also have larger small business sectors than USA, so again where do you take information?

www.nationmaster.com...

Entrepreneurship index rankings: qph.is.quoracdn.net...

The global competiveness report shows that Finland and Sweden are more competitive economies than USA:
en.wikipedia.org...

USA is of course one of the easiest places to start a business although statistics show not many people tend to own small business and 52,7 of people work in corporations, which is much large number than in other similar wealth countries, over 12,5% larger share of people than in any Nordic country



Originally posted by Szarekh

The Nordic system for America?

You may as well put on brown or black shirts and give the fascist salute to the Capital building if you actually believe in the system.



I simply feel sorry for you. Your post was disturbing and showed how stupid can a person be...And truly perfect example of how ignorant and brainwashed you are to believe how evil these countries are.





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